Does Canada Now Have a New (Haitian) Head of State?

[jbg]

Help me out here.

I'm an American who knows nothing about Canada. Isn't Queen Elizabeth II, and not Michele Jean (who I admire greatly) the Head of State?

Excuse my befuddlement.

Governor General calling herself 'head of state' riles monarchists(link)

Canadian monarchists and constitutional experts are raising strong objections to a speech given this week in Paris by Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean, in which she referred to herself twice as Canada's "head of state" — a position formally occupied by Queen Elizabeth.

The phrasing is controversial because the governor general is normally referred to as the "Queen's representative in Canada," a vice-regal delegate who routinely performs the functions of the head of state but does not carry that title.

************

"I, a francophone from the Americas, born in Haiti, who carries in her the history of the slave trade and the emancipation of blacks, at once Quebecoise and Canadian, and today before you, Canada's head of state, proudly represents the promises and possibilities of that ideal of society," she said.

[Who's Doing What?]

Help me out here.

I'm an American who knows nothing about Canada. Isn't Queen Elizabeth II, and not Michele Jean (who I admire greatly) the Head of State?

Excuse my befuddlement.

Technically the Queen is the head of it all.

Queen

Govenor General

Prime Minister

Bloody stupid.

[kimmy]

She incorrectly used the wrong BS title. It's an easy mistake to make.

For example, at my evening job I sometimes accidentally refer to myself as an alcohol transfer engineer, even though I'm actually just an alcohol transfer logistics planner. The real alcohol transfer engineers always get mad at me when I do that.

-k

[Smallc]

It's stupid because....?

She isn't quite correct, but Rideau Hall is in their clarification. She is actually the Acting Head of State, also called de facto.

[Smallc]

She incorrectly used the wrong BS title.

I'm assuming that you're saying her proper title is BS.

[jbg]

Bloody stupid.

Who's "bloody stupid"? From what I can tell there's nothing stupid about Queen Elizabeth II or Stephen Harper, even if he does "sing out of tune".

[kimmy]

I'm assuming that you're saying her proper title is BS.

Her title is irrelevant. She's a hood ornament. It's a ceremonial function. Any exercise of her power will be done under the advisement of a battalion of constitutional lawyer.

Does it matter to anybody if she calls herself the Head of State? The Acting Head of State? The Supreme Overlord? She's a hood ornament, and a much more pleasant one than previous hood ornaments who have occupied the post.

-k

[Smallc]

Yes, it does matter. Canadians are already ignorant enough about their system of administration and government. They don't need her making it worse. I like her, but I'm glad that Rideau Hall clarified things. Without this particular hood ornament, almost nothing in this country can happen.

[msj]

Who's "bloody stupid"? From what I can tell there's nothing stupid about Queen Elizabeth II or Stephen Harper, even if he does "sing out of tune".

I think he meant the system where we have ceremonial heads of state that we call de facto heads of state when most of us really look to the Prime Minister as being, practically speaking, the real head of state (even though the only people who get to directly vote for him/her happen to live in his/her riding and the rest of Canada is shut out).

But enough of my closet republicanism.

[kimmy]

Without this particular hood ornament, almost nothing in this country can happen.

Yeah, if her bill-signing arm were torn off by racist Calgarian tigers, our whole country would be plunged into chaos.

-k

[Smallc]

Yeah, if her bill-signing arm were torn off by racist Calgarian tigers, our whole country would be plunged into chaos.

-k

Because ceremony and history isn't at all important when you have a country....not to mention the law and the Constitution.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Smallc

[Smallc]

when most of us really look to the Prime Minister as being, practically speaking, the real head of state

He doesn't do much of anything that a normal head of state does. He does do everything a head of government is usually tasked with though. Most countries don't have American style presidential republics. There are many more countries that very much look like ours with a mostly ceremonial head of state.

[Smallc]

In fact, you aren't necessarily talking about a republic at all, since republics often have parliaments with a similar set up to Canada. You are talking quite specifically about a presidential republic.

[kimmy]

Because ceremony and history isn't at all important when you have a country....not to mention the law and the Constitution.

You mean, like, hood ornament type stuff?

-k

[msj]

Smallc, I appreciate your response and your loyalty to our Queen and vice regal (or whatever).

But come on, man.

I don't want to turn this into a monarchist vs republican (I only like this word because it has "pub" in it, btw) thread.

But, really, come on, man....

[Smallc]

No, it's not hood ornament type stuff, no matter how much you want to make it out to be. The signing of laws, the opening of parliament, and the formation of governments are all important legal steps and none of them are simply technicalities. Similar arguments can be made when talking about the deployment of our forces or the awarding of our country's highest honours. The Governor General (and the Queen) often serve very ceremonial roles, but that doesn't take away from the importance of their offices within our system. To simply talk about them as a hood ornament is to underestimate their importance within our constitution and history.

[Smallc]

I don't want to turn this into a monarchist vs republican (I only like this word because it has "pub" in it, btw) thread.

But, really, come on, man....

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to come on about. There are many republics that are set up similar to our system. Israel, South Africa, and in many ways France to name a few. When talking about the Prime Minister as something of a head of state, you're looking at his role in comparison to that of either the American or Mexican Presidents. They occupy both roles, and the roles look somewhat similar to that of our Prime Minister. In our system, the job is split in two, with a partisan head of government and a non partisan head of state.

Such a system has allowed Canada to function very well, and I think it's important that we don't mess with a good thing.

[msj]

I agree with you Smallc with the exception that another way could be found to do all that without the pomp and BS.

Although, I suppose our pomp and BS is less annoying than the pomp and BS coming out of the US.

Okay, you've convinced me to be a mild monarchist again.

And who says people aren't convinced to change their minds on Mapleleafweb?

[kimmy]

No, it's not hood ornament type stuff, no matter how much you want to make it out to be. The signing of laws,

Could be done by a clever chimp or a 2nd grader!

the opening of parliament,

Could be done by a Hooters Girl or a Cineplex usher!

and the formation of governments

Come on, c, everybody knows she doesn't make any real decisions on her own. When it comes to exercising the real powers of her office, she would not dare to even fart until she's been informed of the proper legal course of action by constitutional experts. The 2nd grader, the Hooters Girl, and the Cineplex usher can all cover this one as well; it's probably over the chimpanzee's head, however.

are all important legal steps and none of them are simply technicalities. Similar arguments can be made when talking about the deployment of our forces or the awarding of our country's highest honours. The Governor General (and the Queen) often serve very ceremonial roles, but that doesn't take away from the importance of their offices within our system. To simply talk about them as a hood ornament is to underestimate their importance within our constitution and history.

Sure, that's what the brochure says. But come awwwwn...

-k

[eyeball]

Hood ornament? I'd say its more like a grill cat.

[Smallc]

I agree with you Smallc with the exception that another way could be found to do all that without the pomp and BS.

I don't know...I rather like the ceremony. It's all rather official. In truth, it's simply that I love this country, and I thin the institutions of this country are part of what makes it the best country in the world. I'm open to change if the change makes a meaningful improvement without causing other large negative side effects (Senate reform for example is something that I could be convinced on if the right argument were put forward...not abolition of the Senate though).

The same goes to Kimmy. We can't forget who we are or where we came from. The idea of Canada is as important as the existence of Canada. The Governor General and the Queen are important parts of Canada.

[Smallc]

Could be done by a clever chimp or a 2nd grader!

It doesn't matter who could do it, what matters is who is legally obligated and charged with the duty. It's important, whether or not you see it.

[g_bambino]

Smallc, I appreciate your response and your loyalty to our Queen and vice regal (or whatever).

But come on, man.

What are you getting on his case about? He's quite right to point out that the Queen and Governor General together have a very real and important purpose; their lack of the title "president" doesn't make that any less factual. While we mostly see them act in a ceremonial capacity (or as "hood ornaments", to use kimmy's nomenclature), as significant as that is, possessing sovereign power away from politicians - both federal and provincial - is the Queen's less often witnessed but most crucial role. Hence, Jean's gaffe - and that of some recent governors general before her - offers a glimpse of the general republican and centrist stance of Government House staff in the national capital. Their theory is not only illogical - the monarch as the state cannot be subordinate to her own representative - but also has constitutional implications: Canadian federalism becomes unbalanced when the governor general usurps the role of head of state from the actual head of state, raising herself from an equal of the lieutenant governors under the Queen to chief above Queen and provincial viceroys alike. The Queen's opinion of this self-aggrandising attitude is unknown, but officials in the provinces have never taken kindly to it, perceiving it as an affront to their equal status with Ottawa, and rightly so. The Governor General simply is not, and cannot be, head of state, de facto or otherwise.

[ToadBrother]

Come on, c, everybody knows she doesn't make any real decisions on her own. When it comes to exercising the real powers of her office, she would not dare to even fart until she's been informed of the proper legal course of action by constitutional experts. The 2nd grader, the Hooters Girl, and the Cineplex usher can all cover this one as well; it's probably over the chimpanzee's head, however.

That's fairly common for Western heads of state. The systems used in France and the US are not all that common.

[Army Guy]

For example, at my evening job I sometimes accidentally refer to myself as an alcohol transfer engineer, even though I'm actually just an alcohol transfer logistics planner. The real alcohol transfer engineers always get mad at me when I do that.

I get the same thing when i'm at the bar.....I transfer the alcohol from the bottle to my tummy then into the toilet all night.....Never thought once to give it such a fancy job title though....It's got a nice ring to it, might look good on a t-shirt...