Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 of course, it's called democracy in action. Who could/would ever expect complete agreement on everything. Personally, I view those who disagree with me as practicing their democratic right... the same democratic right that might allow me to go 'walk-about' with a Canadian flag on my backpack, feeling a little less proud about myself as a Canadian abroad... given the policies of the Harper Conservatives, as interpreted abroad. The same democratic right that shouldn't expect partisan response to that right to be falsely shaped toward some perceived slight toward the military and their sacrifice. No, a slight to the military would be Chretien cutting their budget to a pittance. Or Martin sending them to Afhanistan with ARCTIC camouflage! Or building 12 new frigates but only spending enough money to fuel just a couple of them to actually put to sea. Or letting pilots die in Sea King crashes! And on and on and on... If our service men and women were ever actually polled I would be very surprised if ANY of them supported the Liberal Party! Except for maybe the odd General who owed his promotion to political connections. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
jdobbin Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 No, a slight to the military would be Chretien cutting their budget to a pittance. Or Martin sending them to Afhanistan with ARCTIC camouflage! Hope you haven't forgotten the Tories who bought them their Iltis vehicles or who sold their helicopters to the Dutch? Quote
waldo Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Where exactly are these domestic policies causing concern?I'm sorry, were you being sacastic when you describes Rwanda and Liberia as "stalwart"? Aside from requiring visas from Mexico and the Czech rep...I can't see any of those making the least impression internationally. If you can cite articles from abroad I will revisit my opinion. edited to correct... should have read "ended the suspension" an example... you can't be serious that you didn't recognize the world-wide backlash to the South African refugee claim grant? countries, and their citizens, do shape relations based on action and perception. In response to your question, I offered you a small smattering of Harper Conservative policies that some feel are negatively impacting Canada's image abroad... we can agree to disagree about the reality and perception of Harper Conservative policies as interpreted abroad, and, of course... as is your right, you can choose to completely ignore said impact, real, perceived or otherwise. But none of that should detract from the central message of that ad... as intended... and that it is not a slight towards the military and it's sacrifice. I could equally ask you to cite examples that suggest Harper Conservative policies have enhanced Canada's reputation and image abroad... might you expect we would agree on them all, some of them, or none at all? Edited September 15, 2009 by waldo Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Hope you haven't forgotten the Tories who bought them their Iltis vehicles or who sold their helicopters to the Dutch? Hey, I never claimed to be a Mulroney supporter! Or an enthusiastic Harper one, for that matter. However, if you made one pile of Liberal actions and another pile of Tory actions the size of the heaps would be flippin' obvious! The typical Liberal defense minister is a Hedy Fry. If I remember correctly, John Manley was one of the few sensible Liberal defense ministers and he had a lot of problems from his OWN party for much of what he did! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 edited to correct... should have read "ended the suspension"an example... you can't be serious that you didn't recognize the world-wide backlash to the South African refugee claim grant? It was picked up internationally but as far as I could tell it was only SouthAfrica who complained. I offered you a small smattering of Harper Conservative policies that some feel are negatively impacting Canada's image abroad... But you haven't really proved they are impacting us negatively I could equally ask you to cite examples that suggest Harper Conservative policies have enhanced Canada's reputation and image abroad... might you expect we would agree on them all, some of them, or none at all? I'm not making any claims to that effect. If I were, it would start with Canada's Nato committment. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
waldo Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 It was picked up internationally but as far as I could tell it was only SouthAfrica who complained.But you haven't really proved they are impacting us negatively I'm not making any claims to that effect. If I were, it would start with Canada's Nato committment. yes - picked up internationally... but, I guess to you, international interpretation of that 'pick-up' wouldn't translate negatively to Canadian policy - go figure! and we would disagree on the application of that Nato commitment, vis-a-vis Afghanistan. Quote
M.Dancer Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 yes - picked up internationally... but, I guess to you, international interpretation of that 'pick-up' wouldn't translate negatively to Canadian policy - go figure! No I don't think so. Because a news story is published does not automatically lead to any such thing. For all you know, the readers might even applaud Canada. Show me though, where world leaders condemn Canada for the south african hoohaa... and we would disagree on the application of that Nato commitment, vis-a-vis Afghanistan. ...so the members of Nato are opposed to us in Afghanistan? What about Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Korea....? Are they opposed to us too? Or will Canada's place be given more weight because of it? You really haven't made a case for Harper lessoning Canada's international clout one bit. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jdobbin Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 The typical Liberal defense minister is a Hedy Fry. If I remember correctly, John Manley was one of the few sensible Liberal defense ministers and he had a lot of problems from his OWN party for much of what he did! What problems did he have? Quote
noahbody Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 an example... you can't be serious that you didn't recognize the world-wide backlash to the South African refugee claim grant? The board decided to let him live and work legally in Canada after Huntley argued he had been the victim of racial violence and discrimination in South Africa. The board operates independently of the Canadian government. Now the Canadian government plans to ask federal courts to overturn the decision, said Alykhan Velshi, a spokesman for Canadian Immigration Minister Jason Kenney. "It's important to stress that this isn't the minister's decision nor that of the government," Velshi said in a statement Friday. "It was a decision taken by the quasi-judicial, independent Immigration and Refugee Board. I will leave it to them to defend the quality of their decisions." http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/09/...ylum/index.htmlSo, you're proud of the government appealing the decision (for which they were not responsible) right? Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 What problems did he have? He was considered too close to the Americans, as I recall. Especially after he worked hard to cooperate during the 9/1/1 crisis. To be fair, most of the criticism I heard came during the Liberal leadership race of 2003. He was a favourite at the start but then was decisively knocked out by Paul Martin. He was attacked for being on the 'right wing' side of the Liberal Party. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Smallc Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 I'd like to live in a place where billions of dollars amount to a pittance. Quote
Argus Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 excellent - but it's really an issue that crosses party bounds, as there's a growing concern that Harper Conservative policies are being negatively interpreted abroad. No, there actually is no such concern from anyone. Nor does anyone abroad care that our "foreign policy" has changed much except for all the Jew haters who are upset we aren't voting as much with the Muslim bloc to condemn Jews. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jdobbin Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 He was considered too close to the Americans, as I recall. Especially after he worked hard to cooperate during the 9/1/1 crisis. I can't recall that criticism. To be fair, most of the criticism I heard came during the Liberal leadership race of 2003. He was a favourite at the start but then was decisively knocked out by Paul Martin. He was attacked for being on the 'right wing' side of the Liberal Party. He and Paul Martin were chasing the same supporters of fiscal management. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Liberal adds are pitiful. Horribly produced by talentless directors and writers - Let me put it out their to the liberal camp. You want to run this nation - Let ME produce your adds...I will get it right....where the hell do they find the idots to shoot these clips that fail to induce the seduction neccesary to take the prime ministers office away from him? Do they hire their nephews? Quote
wyly Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Hope you haven't forgotten the Tories who bought them their Iltis vehicles or who sold their helicopters to the Dutch?or cancelled the Arrow... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 or cancelled the Arrow... The Tories are not conservatives in these regards..the "Tories" are famous for stunting Canadian buisness just enough to please their American masters. Quote
noahbody Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 - for the first time, ever, Canada has sought to be exempted from a human rights standard adopted by the UN General Assembly – the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Canada said that while it supported the spirit of the Declaration, it contained elements that were "fundamentally incompatible with Canada's constitutional framework".[5] In particular, the Canadian government had problems with Article 19 (which appears to require governments to secure the consent of indigenous peoples regarding matters of general public policy), and Articles 26 and 28 (which could allow for the re-opening or repudiation of historically settled land claims).[12] Signing onto that would have been about as bright as signing onto Kyoto. Or should we just ignore the consequences and sign onto all agreements that make us feel warm and fuzzy for the moment? New Zealand, Australia and the US also rejected it. Quote
jdobbin Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Liberal adds are pitiful. Horribly produced by talentless directors and writers - Let me put it out their to the liberal camp. You want to run this nation - Let ME produce your adds... Was this one of your ads? Edited September 15, 2009 by jdobbin Quote
waldo Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 - for the first time, ever, Canada has sought to be exempted from a human rights standard adopted by the UN General Assembly – the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Signing onto that would have been about as bright as signing onto Kyoto. Or should we just ignore the consequences and sign onto all agreements that make us feel warm and fuzzy for the moment? New Zealand, Australia and the US also rejected it. no... Australia has subsequently signed on and New Zealand has advised of it's intent to do likewise. First time ever - Canada seeks exemption from a human rights standard adopted by the UN General Assembly... and stands - almost - alone Quote
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Was this one of your ads? Did not listen to the audio. No that was not one of my adds. That was plain stupid..much like Iggy standing in front of a northern jungle in a blue shirt - squinting his eyes so no one could see into them...Firstly...I have seen those type of eyes on females...bright ones who were persecuted as children for being to smart...but - it is not a physical thing to squint in such a manner - it is protective..a defensive HABIT...First thing I would do with Iggy is take a walk out into those woods with him...sit down and feed him a bunch of gin out of a flask...and say "Iggy...wake the f**k up! Open those eyes now before I open them for you with a pine cone...Let the world see who you are and stop being so damned afraid!" Then Iggy would return wide eyed and human..and I would re-shoot the add. Under all that fear is probably a fine human being.....simply put I would train Iggy to look you in the eye - and open his slits....Then he would be Prime Minister in no time -------who is going to send me a cheaque? Quote
waldo Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 excellent - but it's really an issue that crosses party bounds, as there's a growing concern that Harper Conservative policies are being negatively interpreted abroad. No, there actually is no such concern from anyone. Nor does anyone abroad care that our "foreign policy" has changed much except for all the Jew haters who are upset we aren't voting as much with the Muslim bloc to condemn Jews. thanks for coming out... I don't believe anyone on MLW realized your views on this sensitive ideological and religious based concern. Noted. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 thanks for coming out... I don't believe anyone on MLW realized your views on this sensitive ideological and religious based concern. Noted. How come the average person does not realize that once they get you to hate, you are in a weakend and controlable state...why do they not teach this in schools - that hate is a tool used by the sinister.?? Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 or cancelled the Arrow... Well, that was indeed dumb but it was like, half a century ago! However, playing a PeeWee Herman game of "I know you are but what am I?" won't change anything. I'd be the first to write off all parties as brain dead when it counts. Still, I refer to those two heaps of Liberal and Tory cuts to supporting our soldiers. I'll give you the Arrow and the helicopters to the Dutch. That's a pretty small pile for the Tories, against a Liberal pile as high as a Sea King! C'mon, don't you agree it's pretty lame when we send our soldiers to Afghanistan and all we have is Arctic camo to put them in? And when's the last time anyone ever saw a Liberal government INCREASE the military budget? MacKenzie King? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Oleg Bach Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 Well, that was indeed dumb but it was like, half a century ago!However, playing a PeeWee Herman game of "I know you are but what am I?" won't change anything. I'd be the first to write off all parties as brain dead when it counts. Still, I refer to those two heaps of Liberal and Tory cuts to supporting our soldiers. I'll give you the Arrow and the helicopters to the Dutch. That's a pretty small pile for the Tories, against a Liberal pile as high as a Sea King! C'mon, don't you agree it's pretty lame when we send our soldiers to Afghanistan and all we have is Arctic camo to put them in? And when's the last time anyone ever saw a Liberal government INCREASE the military budget? MacKenzie King? I guess the Americans are finally in a state of regret for the "INCREASE" in their budget used to plunder Iraq...and with few profits to show for it.. Military spending and budget increases are to be used for defence not offence..we do not have a DEPARTMENT OF OFFENCE. Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 15, 2009 Report Posted September 15, 2009 I guess the Americans are finally in a state of regret for the "INCREASE" in their budget used to plunder Iraq...and with few profits to show for it.. Military spending and budget increases are to be used for defence not offence..we do not have a DEPARTMENT OF OFFENCE. Well, that's only logical. We don't have much offensive capability! Which leads to the other question, why do we have a Dept of Defence? Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
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