Liberal Ad's

[wulf42]

The Liberals are pushing Mr Harper right into the drivers seat........they are their own worst enemy.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/279050

[noahbody]

I think the spin is that you know that the bad was a military rucksack and you know that it was an attack on the military.

Weren't you trying to justify this election push because you knew Harper was going to call an election after the Olympics?

[scribblet]

I don't seem to be the only person seeing it as an attack on the military, among other things... heck she apologized didn't she - sort of...

http://www.kelowna.com/2009/09/14/liberal-...ilitary-family/

Edited September 14, 2009 by scriblett

[waldo]

Oh, good grief!

I finally hit the link to look at that ad.

Wow! It would take someone who bounced on their head when they landed on this planet to percieve that as being military, much less to write some offense to military into it.....

What a flipping warped mindset!

Rediculous! !

yes, clearly a lot of fake outrage (and fury!) being expressed by the usual suspects... but apparently, none of them care to actually explain, as you say, how that tourist knapsack could ever be interpreted as a military rucksack, how offense to the military could be interpreted... and to offer comment on the Harper Conservative policy influenced Canadian image abroad.

[jdobbin]

I don't seem to be the only person seeing it as an attack on the military, among other things... heck she apologized didn't she - sort of...

One military family, I see.

And she didn't know what the ad was and made assumptions like you are.

[jdobbin]

The Liberals are pushing Mr Harper right into the drivers seat........they are their own worst enemy.

This poll basically is a tie given the margin of error.

[jdobbin]

Weren't you trying to justify this election push because you knew Harper was going to call an election after the Olympics?

He still might. Harper has already shown that term limits mean nothing to him.

[Smallc]

Harper will call an election in the spring if there isn't one before then. There's almost no doubt. If he doesn't call it, he'll engineer his own defeat. Then he can tell people why we need an election at that time even though we don't need one now.

[noahbody]

but apparently, none of them care to actually explain, as you say, how that tourist knapsack could ever be interpreted as a military rucksack, how offense to the military could be interpreted... and to offer comment on the Harper Conservative policy influenced Canadian image abroad.

It has to do about the comment on our international reputation and that Canadians are embarrassed because of it. This, at a time when our men and women are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Saying you're embarrassed to identify yourself as a Canadian when abroad is a slap in the face to their sacrifice.

[DrGreenthumb]

It has to do about the comment on our international reputation and that Canadians are embarrassed because of it. This, at a time when our men and women are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Saying you're embarrassed to identify yourself as a Canadian when abroad is a slap in the face to their sacrifice.

Its Harper and his goons that embarass us , not the soldiers.

[waldo]

yes, clearly a lot of fake outrage (and fury!) being expressed by the usual suspects... but apparently, none of them care to actually explain, as you say, how that tourist knapsack could ever be interpreted as a military rucksack, how offense to the military could be interpreted... and to offer comment on the Harper Conservative policy influenced Canadian image abroad.

It has to do about the comment on our international reputation and that Canadians are embarrassed because of it. This, at a time when our men and women are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Saying you're embarrassed to identify yourself as a Canadian when abroad is a slap in the face to their sacrifice.

the pic caption, “we used to wear it abroad with pride”… suggests no unwillingness to identify oneself as Canadian abroad; rather, it suggests less/lost pride in that identity. It implies a change/cause has influenced less/lost pride… a change/cause that, to some, associates with Harper Conservative policies negatively interpreted abroad. None of which reflects directly on the military – none of which impugns the military’s sacrifice.

[ba1614]

Wow partisan politics...

Ya, you need to completely ignore, and avoid people like that, it's a useless exercise in futility. These people who are in the tank, for any party, won't look at anything objectively.

You will have a much more constructive discussion with people who are actually concerned with the issues, and not simply deflecting, and/or propping "their party" up.

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to find these discussions online because the partisan hacks come out of the woodwork and destroy any meaningful debate with their idiocy.

[Keepitsimple]

the pic caption, “we used to wear it abroad with pride”… suggests no unwillingness to identify oneself as Canadian abroad; rather, it suggests less/lost pride in that identity. It implies a change/cause has influenced less/lost pride… a change/cause that, to some, associates with Harper Conservative policies negatively interpreted abroad. None of which reflects directly on the military – none of which impugns the military’s sacrifice.

Oh ya....now I get it. I just didn't get the deeper meaning. Silly me....I was listening to all those people complaining that they were upset about it and didn't try to understand what she was really getting at. I should have known that Hedy Fry didn't mean to insult the military or all the Canadians who are actually proud of their country. I feel kind of sheepish now....thanks for clearing that up for me Waldo.

[Wild Bill]

the pic caption, “we used to wear it abroad with pride”… suggests no unwillingness to identify oneself as Canadian abroad; rather, it suggests less/lost pride in that identity. It implies a change/cause has influenced less/lost pride… a change/cause that, to some, associates with Harper Conservative policies negatively interpreted abroad. None of which reflects directly on the military – none of which impugns the military’s sacrifice.

You don't have to convince us. You have to convince all the soldiers!

So far, the Liberal excuses and convoluted explanations seem to be failing with the actual offended parties.

However, it's still a 'sort of' free country. You have every right to keep trying!

We have some 'Army Guys' on this board. I would be interested to hear their POV. That has more credibility with me than the words of "crosses burning on every lawn" Hedy Fry...

[waldo]

I should have known that Hedy Fry didn't mean to insult the military or all the Canadians who are actually proud of their country.

That has more credibility with me than the words of "crosses burning on every lawn" Hedy Fry...

mentioned already - given the nature of 10% advertising practiced by all parties, Ms. Fry should not be your target.

[waldo]

It has to do about the comment on our international reputation and that Canadians are embarrassed because of it. This, at a time when our men and women are fighting and dying in Afghanistan. Saying you're embarrassed to identify yourself as a Canadian when abroad is a slap in the face to their sacrifice.

the pic caption, “we used to wear it abroad with pride”… suggests no unwillingness to identify oneself as Canadian abroad; rather, it suggests less/lost pride in that identity. It implies a change/cause has influenced less/lost pride… a change/cause that, to some, associates with Harper Conservative policies negatively interpreted abroad. None of which reflects directly on the military – none of which impugns the military’s sacrifice.

Oh ya....now I get it. I just didn't get the deeper meaning. Silly me....I was listening to all those people complaining that they were upset about it and didn't try to understand what she was really getting at. I should have known that Hedy Fry didn't mean to insult the military or all the Canadians who are actually proud of their country. I feel kind of sheepish now....thanks for clearing that up for me Waldo.

glad to help reconcile your expressed fury. I trust you now recognize that the ad does not reflect directly on the military – and does not impugn the military’s sacrifice... regardless of how partisans wish to exploit it.

[Keepitsimple]

glad to help reconcile your expressed fury. I trust you now recognize that the ad does not reflect directly on the military – and does not impugn the military’s sacrifice... regardless of how partisans wish to exploit it.

Yes I do....oh my god, I feel so damn silly. I'm sorry for sounding so upset. I know Hedy didn't mean it that way. Darn, I should have known - when will I ever learn...Liberals really, really care. I'm OK now....starting to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[waldo]

Yes I do....oh my god, I feel so damn silly. I'm sorry for sounding so upset. I know Hedy didn't mean it that way. Darn, I should have known - when will I ever learn...Liberals really, really care. I'm OK now....starting to feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

excellent - but it's really an issue that crosses party bounds, as there's a growing concern that Harper Conservative policies are being negatively interpreted abroad.

[Wild Bill]

excellent - but it's really an issue that crosses party bounds, as there's a growing concern that Harper Conservative policies are being negatively interpreted abroad.

I didn't see an answer to my main point from you so I will phrase it yet again:

How do YOU feel the majority of our soldiers feel about the ad?

Please note I did NOT ask how you feel they SHOULD feel but rather how they DO feel!

[waldo]

I didn't see an answer to my main point from you so I will phrase it yet again:

How do YOU feel the majority of our soldiers feel about the ad?

Please note I did NOT ask how you feel they SHOULD feel but rather how they DO feel!

from the linked article, I recognize the wife of a military member expressed concern relative to her interpretation of the ad... if other raised concerns have come forward, I trust more enlightened dialogue will help to diminish those concerns and impress that the ad does not reflect directly on the military – and does not impugn the military’s sacrifice.

[M.Dancer]

as there's a growing concern that Harper Conservative policies are being negatively interpreted abroad.

Abroad? Where? Which policies?

[waldo]

Abroad? Where? Which policies?

Abroad? Where? Which policies?

abroad? ... over there

which policies ... a few off the top:

- creating a perception of two-tiered citizenship where Canadians are left to their own resources abroad… re: Abousifan Abdelrazik, Suaad Hagi Mohaamud, Bashir Makhtal, etc.

- an indiscriminate refugee policy; e.g. we’ve recently seen Canada’s image tarnished world-wide over granting a South African refugee status… world pressure has necessitated a face-saving review attempt; however, the damage has been done

- forcing visa requirements on citizens of Mexico and the Czech Republic

- ending the suspension of deportations to such stalwart countries as Rwanda, Liberia and Burundi

- for the first time, ever, Canada has sought to be exempted from a human rights standard adopted by the UN General Assembly – the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

- policy intent that ended the long-standing Canadian practice of transferring all Canadians in foreign prisons who requested a move to a prison in Canada… the Conservatives continue to deny transfer to many Canadians incarcerated abroad

- a selective policy to not seek clemency for some Canadians sentenced to death in foreign countries.

- Canada’s failure to take substantive measures on climate change

- in terms of supporting international environmental agreements, the Office of the Auditor General of Canada advised that “ Canada has made unsatisfactory progress toward providing a complete and understandable picture of the results expected from Canada’s international environmental agreements. In addition, the departments do not generally make complete and understandable information available on the results the government both expected to achieve and has achieved toward fulfilling obligations under the agreements.”

- etc., etc., etc.

Edited September 15, 2009 by waldo

[Wild Bill]

abroad? ... over there

which policies ... a few off the top:

- creating a perception of two-tiered citizenship where Canadians are left to their own resources abroad… re: Abousifan Abdelrazik, Suaad Hagi Mohaamud, Bashir Makhtal, etc.

- an indiscriminate refugee policy; e.g. we’ve recently seen Canada’s image tarnished world-wide over granting a South African refugee status… world pressure has necessitated a face-saving review attempt; however, the damage has been done

- forcing visa requirements on citizens of Mexico and the Czech Republic

- suspending deportations to such stalwart countries as Rwanda, Liberia and Burundi

- for the first time, ever, Canada has sought to be exempted from a human rights standard adopted by the UN General Assembly – the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

- policy intent that ended the long-standing Canadian practice of transferring all Canadians in foreign prisons who requested a move to a prison in Canada… the Conservatives continue to deny transfer to many Canadians incarcerated abroad

- a selective policy to not seek clemency for some Canadians sentenced to death in foreign countries.

- Canada’s failure to take substantive measures on climate change

- in terms of supporting international environmental agreements, the Office of the Auditor General of Canada advised that “ Canada has made unsatisfactory progress toward providing a complete and understandable picture of the results expected from Canada’s international environmental agreements. In addition, the departments do not generally make complete and understandable information available on the results the government both expected to achieve and has achieved toward fulfilling obligations under the agreements.”

- etc., etc., etc.

Whew! A lot of points there! However, I support the Tories on virtually every one!

In fact, it's the fact that I consider them pluses and not minuses that keeps me from being on the same side as you come election time.

That in itself is not unusual. People have different opinions and that's why they support different parties.

What is unusual is thinking that everyone always agrees with you!

Or worse yet, thinking that anyone who disagrees with you must be an evil reptilian kitten eater...

[M.Dancer]

abroad? ... over there

Where exactly are these domestic policies causing concern?

I'm sorry, were you being sacastic when you describes Rwanda and Liberia as "stalwart"?

Aside from requiring visas from Mexico and the Czech rep...I can't see any of those making the least impression internationally.

If you can cite articles from abroad I will revisit my opinion.

[waldo]

People have different opinions and that's why they support different parties.

What is unusual is thinking that everyone always agrees with you!

Or worse yet, thinking that anyone who disagrees with you must be an evil reptilian kitten eater...

of course, it's called democracy in action. Who could/would ever expect complete agreement on everything. Personally, I view those who disagree with me as practicing their democratic right... the same democratic right that might allow me to go 'walk-about' with a Canadian flag on my backpack, feeling a little less proud about myself as a Canadian abroad... given the policies of the Harper Conservatives, as interpreted abroad. The same democratic right that shouldn't expect partisan response to that right to be falsely shaped toward some perceived slight toward the military and their sacrifice.