Why Harper won't get my vote

[maplesyrup]

Why Harper won't get my vote

The reason for not voting for him, obviously, is trust or lack thereof. I simply do not believe that this firewaller has become a nation builder.

In the process of rebuilding his party, he lost most of the Red Tory people who would carry the banner of moderation from within.

Mike Harris, Tony Clement and other former members of the Common Sense Revolution do not really represent this stream. Neither do Brian Mulroney or Belinda Stronach, she of the baking-a-larger-economic-pie fleeting fame. Many Red Tory backroom organizers and volunteers will sit out the next election waiting for a more moderate leader.

On the economy, the overall conservative record in the last 20 years is not a good one (with the notable exception of Ralph Klein, partly due to large oil revenues).

When it comes to financial management, the modern hard-right theories have proven to be utterly amateurish, disingenuous or foolish. If in doubt, check the U.S. deficits or, closer to home, remember the Mike Harris/Ernie Eves later years.

Bertrand Russell said that the main problem with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. The modern hard-right, I submit, is certain of its economic policies and the results are evident.

In more fundamental matters Harper appeals to the dark side of the right-of-centre vote. It is not just his evangelical views on abortion, his culture of defeatism comment or his support for the war in Iraq (we would be engaged in bringing democracy to that country if it had been up to Harper).

I sense a clear pattern defining the contours of the mind of a politician that was much more evident during his earlier time as a public person. And I am troubled by it.

Since most of his previous views are not part of his platform, he has either radically changed them or is just toning them down for the sake of winning the election. Either way he is not worthy of forming the government

A good example of what this article's author is aluding to, is now that the US invasion of Iraq has turned into a nightmare, Harper is trying to change his position about Canada's involvement. It is just not going to wash for most Canadians.

[Alliance Fanatic]

If your going to criticize Harper for believing in proincial rights, and criticize Quebec as well. They did it way before Harper ever did.

[Argus]

In the process of rebuilding his party, he lost most of the Red Tory people who would carry the banner of moderation from within.

On the economy, the overall conservative record in the last 20 years is not a good one (with the notable exception of Ralph Klein, partly due to large oil revenues).

Where did it become accepted political theory that moderates only exist on the left side of the political spectrum? Most of the so-called Red Tories were people whose ideology was by almost any unbiased assessment on the left of centre. Most of them only joined the Tories rather than the Liberals because their chances were better in their particular area at getting elected. Joe Clark a conservative? Don't make me laugh. The man had NO conservative beliefs that I ever saw, economic or social.

As to economics, I don't think you can compare what a conservative government is likely to do in Canada with what the more rigid conservative Republicans have done down south. Mulroney ruled in a time of a world wide recession, and inherited a large deficit which high interest rates then doubled. Had he ruled in the last decade I think he would have done a much better job than Chretien.

[Slavik44]

funny, those are the same reasons why i woudln't vote for the NDP, or the liberal's

[Black Dog]

Where did it become accepted political theory that moderates only exist on the left side of the political spectrum?

Pssst...moderates (by definition) don't come from either side of the political spectrum.

On the economy, the overall conservative record in the last 20 years is not a good one (with the notable exception of Ralph Klein, partly due to large oil revenues).

Can't stress that point enough. Conservative economic policies have failed in their stated aims at every level. Even in oil-rich Alberta, where the government must resort to creative accounting to hide its flush coffers, health crae, infrastructure and education are decaying.

[Argus]

Pssst...moderates (by definition) don't come from either side of the political spectrum.

Can't stress that point enough. Conservative economic policies have failed in their stated aims at every level. Even in oil-rich Alberta, where the government must resort to creative accounting to hide its flush coffers, health crae, infrastructure and education are decaying.

Whose definition? Moderates are simply people who can see the other side's point of view and are willing to compromise and work with the other side.

As for decay under conservatism, uhm, education and health care has been decaying all across Canada for the past fifteen years - at least. Most of that decay was under liberal governments. Nor do conservative governments have any patent on creative accounting. Just ask the last NDP government of BC or the present Liberal government in Ottawa.

[Slavik44]

Can't stress that point enough. Conservative economic policies have failed in their stated aims at every level. Even in oil-rich Alberta, where the government must resort to creative accounting to hide its flush coffers, health crae, infrastructure and education are decaying..

Health Care, Infrastructure and educaiton are decaying..this phenomena is secluded to one small area of canada...starting On the westernmost point of British Columbia and traveling a small distance to the Esternmost point of Newfoundland It can be located a slight distance to the North at the Northernmost point of nunavut, and again just a small ways down south to ontario and the tip of lake Erie. Yes, what a phenomena the degradation of Health care, Education and infrastructure in canada is , covering a small area of only 9,984,670 sq km.

[Black Dog]

Whose definition? Moderates are simply people who can see the other side's point of view and are willing to compromise and work with the other side.

In other words: centerists.

As for decay under conservatism, uhm, education and health care has been decaying all across Canada for the past fifteen years - at least. Most of that decay was under liberal governments.

Go back...way back to the recession years under Mulroney. That's when the downward spiral began. The Liberals have carried the torch of slash and burn fiscal coniservativism ever since.

Nor do conservative governments have any patent on creative accounting. Just ask the last NDP government of BC or the present Liberal government in Ottawa

BC is an interesting case as every government that province elects turns out crooked, regardless of idealogical leanings. As for the Liberals, well: they're liberal in name only.

[Bro]

Let me get this straight,you can't trust Harper,but will trust the liberals,the only gov.where the auditor general has had to go public to get answers for all of the money mismanagement[?],of tax payer's money by the chretien regime,which Mr.Martin was a part of.

[Black Dog]

Let me get this straight,you can't trust Harper,but will trust the liberals,the only gov.where the auditor general has had to go public to get answers for all of the money mismanagement[?],of tax payer's money by the chretien regime,which Mr.Martin was a part of.

No. I'm voting for the NDP, the only party that actually speaks to what Canadians want.

[Kiraly]

Let me get this straight,you can't trust Harper,but will trust the liberals,the only gov.where the auditor general has had to go public to get answers for all of the money mismanagement[?],of tax payer's money by the chretien regime,which Mr.Martin was a part of.

No. I'm voting for the NDP, the only party that actually speaks to what Canadians want.

They speak to you perhaps, but they do not speak for Canadians as a whole...

...and they definitely do not speak for me.

[Black Dog]

They speak to you perhaps, but they do not speak for Canadians as a whole...

...and they definitely do not speak for me.

I wrote: "speaks to", not "speaks for". Wouldn't want to appear presumptuous.

[Slavik44]

No. I'm voting for the NDP, the only party that actually speaks to what Canadians want.

yes it has been a dream of mine to be taxed to death.

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the NDP is the only party that speaks to what Canadians want? Is this simply a claim anyone can throw out there, or do you have actual proof that the NDP speaks to what 100% of the people in this country want? Or is this a conclusion that you have come to because it speaks to you? But if you have proof the N.D.P is offering what I want please let me know.

[Common Sense]

Why Harper won't get my vote

The reason for not voting for him, obviously, is trust or lack thereof. I simply do not believe that this firewaller has become a nation builder.

In the process of rebuilding his party, he lost most of the Red Tory people who would carry the banner of moderation from within.

Mike Harris, Tony Clement and other former members of the Common Sense Revolution do not really represent this stream. Neither do Brian Mulroney or Belinda Stronach, she of the baking-a-larger-economic-pie fleeting fame. Many Red Tory backroom organizers and volunteers will sit out the next election waiting for a more moderate leader.

On the economy, the overall conservative record in the last 20 years is not a good one (with the notable exception of Ralph Klein, partly due to large oil revenues).

When it comes to financial management, the modern hard-right theories have proven to be utterly amateurish, disingenuous or foolish. If in doubt, check the U.S. deficits or, closer to home, remember the Mike Harris/Ernie Eves later years.

Bertrand Russell said that the main problem with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. The modern hard-right, I submit, is certain of its economic policies and the results are evident.

In more fundamental matters Harper appeals to the dark side of the right-of-centre vote. It is not just his evangelical views on abortion, his culture of defeatism comment or his support for the war in Iraq (we would be engaged in bringing democracy to that country if it had been up to Harper).

I sense a clear pattern defining the contours of the mind of a politician that was much more evident during his earlier time as a public person. And I am troubled by it.

Since most of his previous views are not part of his platform, he has either radically changed them or is just toning them down for the sake of winning the election. Either way he is not worthy of forming the government

A good example of what this article's author is aluding to, is now that the US invasion of Iraq has turned into a nightmare, Harper is trying to change his position about Canada's involvement. It is just not going to wash for most Canadians.

Harper will get my vote because ANYONE who votes for corruption, lying, theft, who screwed up the health care system and the Fiberals did that belong in prison.

The Fiberals made an agreement with all of the provinces for a 50-50 split on supporting the costs of medicare. Well the federal Fiberals reduced their support down to 16 percent so that they could use the money for their buddies.

Fiberals are liars, cheats, don't believe in National Security, believe in allowing terrorists to come into our country and live here without any problem, support criminals rather than victims, blow billions and billions of dollars on French language when we don't even need that, blow billions of dollars on gun registry which we don't need and it hasn't and won't save one life, so if you are a Fiberal supporter then you are a liar, a cheat, corrupt, don't believe in medicare, but believe in screwing the taxpayer..

[Bro]

The NDP leans toward the notion that everybody is equal and should pay equally.This excludes NDP leaders who speak for us,because as you should know,they are superior

to us and therefore know what is best for us,regardless of the fact that most Canadians don't agree with them,as their dismal attempts at federal leadership has shown.

[Black Dog]

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that the NDP is the only party that speaks for what Canadians want? Is thsi simply a claim anyone can throw out there, or do you have actual proof that the NDP speaks for what 100% of the people in this country want? Or is this a conclusion that you have coem to because it speaks to you? But if you ahve proof the N.D.P is offering what I want please let me know.

Not 100 per cent, of course. But polls have consistenetly shown that Canadians want health care to stay public, an adequetely funded education system, better services, balanced budgets, secure, quality jobs, affordable housing, clean air and water, and a transparent and acountable government. These are all NDP priorities.

That's not the Liberals, who speak with a forked tounge. That's not the Cons, who take the worst policies of the Mulroney Tories and combine them with the reactionary rhetoric of Reform.

The NDP is the closest thing this country has to a centerist party. It's just that the other two major alternatives are so far to the right that the middle looks left.

[Argus]

No. I'm voting for the NDP, the only party that actually speaks to what Canadians want.

Sky high taxes and big deficits? Bureacrats controlling all our lives? Social engineering and guiltmongering towards those evil white heterosexual males? Uhhh, no thank you.

[maplesyrup]

Wasn't it the Conservatives, now led by Harper, that ran up the biggest deficits in Canadian history in the nineteen eighties?

Crash, there goes another Canadian myth that the Conservatives are fiscally prudent.

[playfullfellow]

Crash, there goes another Canadian myth that the Conservatives are fiscally prudent. 

Ummmmmmmmmmmm, I dont really see any definate plans from the NDP on how they plan to increase social funding while still keeping a balanced budget. The only way they can do this is to increase taxes. What the hell will I get for those extra taxes, nothing because I am the working middle class. You can't solve all the worlds problems by throwing more money at it.

The Liberals won't get my vote because who can trust anything they say. It seems the Liberals like to spend a lot of time and money on mondane issues. You hear a lot of double speak but nothing ever gets solved.

I guess that leaves the Cons. I might not agree with all of their decisions but now that the likes of Joe Clarke are gone, well I feel they are worth having a look at.

As for Ralph Klein, well he does say it as he sees it. Alberta has had good oil revenues and has prospered because of it. But Ralph had started changing things before the oil prices rebounded. Things are not in a shambles here in Alberta like the rest of the country likes to believe. We pay the lowest taxes, pay no sales tax and enjoy a rather good lifestyle. While Ralph was balancing the books, the Liberals and NDP were screaming bloody murder that the cuts were too deep. Once the phiscal books looked better, Ralph increased spending, now we hear that he only increased the funding to buy votes. We have also heard that he is not being phiscally responsible enough. WTF gives, people just have to complain about anything that might make another person look good.

Let's see some definative answers as to how these guys plan to run this country and I might be convinced otherwise. The wish lists that they call their handbooks make no attempt to explain how they will increase social spending, keep the books balanced and no one ever tries to explain how you can do this without increasing taxes.

[Black Dog]

I dont really see any definate plans from the NDP on how they plan to increase social funding while still keeping a balanced budget. The only way they can do this is to increase taxes. What the hell will I get for those extra taxes, nothing because I am the working middle class. You can't solve all the worlds problems by throwing more money at it.

The NDP is pushing for tax reforms that would ease the burden on lower and middle class tax payers, including increasing corporate income taxes (currently among the lowest in the world), while pursuing an agenda of economic growth by supporting small business and a national investment in infrastructure

I'm not surprised that most people recoil with horror at the thought of tax increases. For the past 20 years, we've been deluged with right-wing rhetoric that ahs pushed hundreds of millions of dollars of tax cuts, tax cuts that have largely benefitted the wealthy while shifting the tax burden onto working Canadains.

And what do we have to show? An arrogant government that squanders taxpayers money and slashes services while shovelling piles into corporate welfare. An opposition that would pursue an agenda that would starve an already emaciated public service and turn public institutions over to the private sector (who's interests are profit, not service).

The tax debate needs to be broadened from beyond the standard knee-jerk "taxes are bad" response. Surveys have shown time and again that Canadians are fine with taxes, provided they see a return. canadians need to take a good look at who's paying the taxes and how we can get more value for our money.

[falling leaf]

Bro

The NDP leans toward the notion that everybody is equal and should pay equally.This excludes NDP leaders who speak for us,because as you should know,they are superior

I don't believe a word of that NDP B/S

When hell freezes over they will superior.

How can anyone in this country believe, that we can have all the things NDP talk about and still have money in the bank.

[Black Dog]

I don't believe a word of that NDP B/S

Glad to see you're keeping an open mind.

How can anyone in this country believe, that we can have all the things NDP talk about and still have money in the bank.

Another successful victim of the system's campaign to lower expectations.

"Settle for less" should be the new CPC motto.

[Slavik44]

The NDP is the closest thing this country has to a centerist party.

I no longer need to watch T.V at night to get my political humor, I'll just talk to you.

[Black Dog]

I no longer need to watch T.V at night to get my political humor, I'll just talk to you.

Tell me, can any of the gibbering dupes here actually back up their claims that the NDP is a "hard" left party?

If you want to cite some NDP policies and explain what's wrong, I'd be happy to discuss.

Because all the snide (and not particularily clever) one-liners, show is you've add nothing to the discussion, that you're more interested in mud-slinging than in real debate on the direction the country should go. You're all smirk, no substance.

[Argus]

Wasn't it the Conservatives, now led by Harper, that ran up the biggest deficits in Canadian history in the nineteen eighties?

Not exactly. The scenario played out as follows.

Canada had a very tiny debt load until the Liberals under Trudeau got at it. By the time he was out we had a big fat debt. Then Mulroney took over. At that time there was a worldwide recession, high unemployment and sky high interest rates. All the debt the Liberals had rung up was on loans which rose and fell with the going interest rates. Interest rates shot up into the high teens and lower twenties. Because of this the Trudeau debt ballooned over the following decade.

Mulroney could not have done anything about that without pouring money into reducing the debt at a time of double digit unemployment. Actual program spending declined, but income from taxes also declined due to decreased economic activity - all those businesses and individuals doing so poorly, going into bankruptcy, unemployed, etc.

So while I wasn't particularly fond of Mulroney I blame Trudeau and the Liberals for our present debt. Any reasonable and knowledgable person would.