Liberals quadruple fundraising totals

[punked]

I guess we'll say the same thing when NDP numbers come in for the next quarter.

Yes you will.

[Wild Bill]

Ummmmm the NDP's money has always been 80-90% individual donations.

Tell that to my father, who belonged to the Steelworkers Union for his working life. A portion of ALL their dues on their paychecks went to the NDP.

It was not coerced, of course. All he had to do was to personally stand up in front of all his union brothers at a union meeting and ask for that portion of his dues to be stopped.

Certainly, no one would EVER have had any reason to feel intimidated!

[punked]

Tell that to my father, who belonged to the Steelworkers Union for his working life. A portion of ALL their dues on their paychecks went to the NDP.

It was not coerced, of course. All he had to do was to personally stand up in front of all his union brothers at a union meeting and ask for that portion of his dues to be stopped.

Certainly, no one would EVER have had any reason to feel intimidated!

I will tell it too your father. Give me his number. It is a touching story but that is just it is a story you have no numbers no facts. The union strength the NDP gets is in man power their money comes from individual donors it always has.

BTW I don't know why your father would dare elected union members who gave his money away to a Federal party. Damn that democracy. Either way you are wrong the NDP has always raised 80-90% of it's money from individual members going back to the 80's.

Edited August 1, 2009 by punked

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I had a big fight during a union meeting about this very thing. Donating to the NDP. Eventually we decided to support nobody, but it wasn't pretty.

[punked]

I had a big fight during a union meeting about this very thing. Donating to the NDP. Eventually we decided to support nobody, but it wasn't pretty.

Good for you democracy at work. It is also a good thing in most provinces and Federally unions can donate to no one.

[Alta4ever]

Good for you democracy at work. It is also a good thing in most provinces and Federally unions can donate to no one.

and if part of your union due is redirected and donated to a party in your name?

Edited August 1, 2009 by Alta4ever

[punked]

and if part of your union due is redirected and donated to a party in your name?

They are donated under the Union name in all provinces. You elect your union reps to voice your concern just like you elect MPs, if you don't like what they are doing run yourself. Regardless unions can not donate federally, they can not donate in Man (NDP law), I believe Ontario, Sask(NDP law) and soon NS (NDP again). The NDP in BC has been pushing it to make so they can't donate there as well.

It seems becuase the NDP are the only ones passing these laws you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Shady]

This is all much ado about nothing. Wow, the Liberals have rebounded in their fundraising. Of course they have. They should. They no longer have the albatross of Dion hanging around their necks. Forgive me if I don't get quite as excited for an obese person, who loses 50 lbs and is able to finish 20 extra push ups this year compared to last year.

The bottom line is still this...

Conservatives raise $21M in 2008, new fundraising record

And to whom do we owe such a grand fundraising total?

Conservative sources say contributions received a major boost in November and December from donors opposed to the prospect of a Liberal-NDP coalition.

Sources say the take from anti-coalition donations easily surpassed the roughly $750,000 the party raised in 2007 after allegations surfaced that a CBC Television reporter had fed questions to a Liberal MP during a committee hearing on the Mulroney-Schreiber affair.

NP

Thank you Jack Layton and Stephan Dion, for your assult on our democracy. And thank you to our taxpayer funded leftwing propaganda machine known as the CBC. We couldn't have done it without you!

[Wild Bill]

Good for you democracy at work. It is also a good thing in most provinces and Federally unions can donate to no one.

That's because of recent changes. It doesn't change previous history.

Sometimes its worth it getting old, just for having a memory to gainsay all the young revisionists.

[jdobbin]

Thank you Jack Layton and Stephan Dion, for your assult on our democracy. And thank you to our taxpayer funded leftwing propaganda machine known as the CBC. We couldn't have done it without you!

Of course Liberals fundraising has gone up because of the gameplaying from Harper immediately after winning the election.

[punked]

That's because of recent changes. It doesn't change previous history.

Sometimes its worth it getting old, just for having a memory to gainsay all the young revisionists.

Yah like how the NDP have tried in almost all provinces to end cooperate and union funding? I forgot you ignore facts.

[Wild Bill]

Yah like how the NDP have tried in almost all provinces to end cooperate and union funding? I forgot you ignore facts.

Pick something that you know for absolutely certain your own father experienced while you were growing up. Something that you PERSONALLY witnessed and both you and your father, if not others in your family, remember.

Now, allow me to state that whatever it is, it's untrue!

Now, how do YOU feel?

[daniel]

...

Thank you Jack Layton and Stephan Dion, for your assult on our democracy. And thank you to our taxpayer funded leftwing propaganda machine known as the CBC. We couldn't have done it without you!

You forgot to list Stephen Harper. You spend a lot of time on the CBC - mandate achieved. It appears you don't watch the crap in those right-wing networks either.

[Shady]

Of course Liberals fundraising has gone up because of the gameplaying from Harper immediately after winning the election.

Nope. It's because they're no longer saddled with Dion. Perhaps the most incompetent candidate I've ever seen since following Canadian politics.

You forgot to list Stephen Harper. You spend a lot of time on the CBC - mandate achieved. It appears you don't watch the crap in those right-wing networks either.

Which rightwing networks?

[kimmy]

Nope. It's because they're no longer saddled with Dion. Perhaps the most incompetent candidate I've ever seen since following Canadian politics.

Indeed.

I think it's obvious that Dion inspired a lot of apathy in his own party. There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of people who considered themselves Liberals didn't feel engaged by Dion or his fruitopian platform. Such people might still tell pollsters that they support the Liberals, but when it comes time to open their wallet for a donation or to help the campaign or get out to the poll on election night, find it hard to make the effort for a candidate they don't care that much about.

-k

[punked]

Pick something that you know for absolutely certain your own father experienced while you were growing up. Something that you PERSONALLY witnessed and both you and your father, if not others in your family, remember.

Now, allow me to state that whatever it is, it's untrue!

Now, how do YOU feel?

I feel fine with it, because it is a story, it does not represent the whole party, all of united Labour. When my grandfather was working the mines and they tired to form a union the Liberals sent the RCMP in and shout and killed one miner. Do I think that represents the entire Liberal party? No I don't it is a story from a long time ago. It is a terrible story and it should never happen again but do I go around saying the Liberals are anti union becuase of some story from 80 years ago? No I don't because facts show us that isn't true.

Fact the NDP raise and have raised almost all their money from individual donors. No story is going to change that. Now give your dads number and I will call him and tell him that. Although he has indoctrinated you well with the union NDP connection stereotype.

[jdobbin]

Nope. It's because they're no longer saddled with Dion. Perhaps the most incompetent candidate I've ever seen since following Canadian politics.

I think you forget the hit to Harper after this fracas.

The increase in money wasn't just about popularity of Ignatieff. It was disgust with Harper.

[punked]

I think you forget the hit to Harper after this fracas.

The increase in money wasn't just about popularity of Ignatieff. It was disgust with Harper.

I agree with this it has as much to do with Harper as Ignatieff.

[Wild Bill]

I feel fine with it, because it is a story, it does not represent the whole party, all of united Labour. When my grandfather was working the mines and they tired to form a union the Liberals sent the RCMP in and shout and killed one miner. Do I think that represents the entire Liberal party? No I don't it is a story from a long time ago. It is a terrible story and it should never happen again but do I go around saying the Liberals are anti union becuase of some story from 80 years ago? No I don't because facts show us that isn't true.

Fact the NDP raise and have raised almost all their money from individual donors. No story is going to change that. Now give your dads number and I will call him and tell him that. Although he has indoctrinated you well with the union NDP connection stereotype.

Well, lots of people tell other people lots of things. You've made the statement but so far given nothing to substantiate it.

Have you got anything other than your own opinion to justify someone changing their mind?

[punked]

Well, lots of people tell other people lots of things. You've made the statement but so far given nothing to substantiate it.

Have you got anything other than your own opinion to justify someone changing their mind?

Ummmm how about the provinces who have changed their laws to eliminate Union donations have been NDP governments at the time. It is easy for the NDP to do that because 80-90% of donations come from individual donors. It is hard to look up the numbers federally becuase the laws changed in 2004 to stop it. However I don't think you can prove me wrong becuase the progressive caucus in the NDP was calling for this in 2001 under Alexa. Saying and I quote "Very little of our money comes form Union and cooperate Donations we should just drop them altogether and point this out next election."

[Wild Bill]

Ummmm how about the provinces who have changed their laws to eliminate Union donations have been NDP governments at the time. It is easy for the NDP to do that because 80-90% of donations come from individual donors. It is hard to look up the numbers federally becuase the laws changed in 2004 to stop it. However I don't think you can prove me wrong becuase the progressive caucus in the NDP was calling for this in 2001 under Alexa. Saying and I quote "Very little of our money comes form Union and cooperate Donations we should just drop them altogether and point this out next election."

2001? My father retired in the late 80's, after nearly 30 years.

You know, the universe DID exist before Coldplay or Katy Perry!

Sheeesh!

[punked]

2001? My father retired in the late 80's, after nearly 30 years.

You know, the universe DID exist before Coldplay or Katy Perry!

Sheeesh!

That was not the point. I was pointing out the NDP didn't have to change their style after the new laws because most their fund raising came from individuals. Than you said tell that too my father, I said I would, then you gave me a story, I said great story doesn't change the facts, then you brought up the 80s when we were talking about the fund raising and the NDP. Even in the 80s most the money came from the grassroots of the party.

[Wild Bill]

That was not the point. I was pointing out the NDP didn't have to change their style after the new laws because most their fund raising came from individuals. Than you said tell that too my father, I said I would, then you gave me a story, I said great story doesn't change the facts, then you brought up the 80s when we were talking about the fund raising and the NDP. Even in the 80s most the money came from the grassroots of the party.

Don't tell me. Show me!

[punked]

Don't tell me. Show me!

Here is the report from 2001 from the progressive caucus saying they should only accept individual donations becuase it is where most their money comes from. I know not as great as a story from a friend of a friend who once stood up in an Union meeting in the 70s but you have not shown me any numbers either.

http://www.progressivepolicy.ca/whatsnew/n...ss/PartyFin.pdf

[Wild Bill]

Here is the report from 2001 from the progressive caucus saying they should only accept individual donations becuase it is where most their money comes from. I know not as great as a story from a friend of a friend who once stood up in an Union meeting in the 70s but you have not shown me any numbers either.

http://www.progressivepolicy.ca/whatsnew/n...ss/PartyFin.pdf

Well, it doesn't give the specifics I would want but I will agree it shows clear intent.

I was only concerned with the federal NDP. This link clearly states that it has no federal numbers, as the structure of the NDP in Canada makes them "hard to come by". The closest I get is one reference to the Ontario NDP as receiving about 18% of its donations from organized labour.

However, I can't argue that the link shows a clear intent by the NDP to become more grassroots in its funding. I respect this much more than I do the actions of the Liberal Party, who appeared to just chug along until the laws were changed and they woke up one morning and said "Gee, we're nearly bankrupt!"

They only appear to have adapted recently, as we've seen in how their fundraising has been much more successful.

As far as my father's experience, your link has nothing to say one way or another. It simply does not address that period in history. Union membership was much higher in those days and could easily have represented a much higher percentage of the total take. What's more, the percentage taken does not address the coercive technique used by making union dues donations an automatic process, with such a disturbing method of appeal as to make a union member publicly ask before all his peers at a public meeting.

What ever! All parties have dirty laundry in their past. This is today. Old sins merely act as a comparison yardstick to see if we have improved or slipped in present times.