Views of Islam

[Guest American Woman]

American Woman. I am going to be talking to a travel agent in the next month to see what it will cost for a week or so in Egypt. Life is short!! Explore the world.

How exciting! Please keep us posted.

[GostHacked]

The problem is not Islam, it's the interpretation of it by a couple of assholes.

I agree with much in your post. I have worked and do work with a few muslims. I recall Farrah that worked with me at the call center, she had to have a sense of humour on our crew and she fit right in. Most muslims I run into are good nice people.

Like all religions it is a select few who ruin it for the rest of them.

[Guest American Woman]

The problem is not Islam, it's the interpretation of it by a couple of assholes.

It's more than "a couple," and to minimize it that way is really just the opposite side of the coin of those who stereotype 'all/most' Muslims. If there were just "a couple of assholes" who felt that way women/girls in countries like Saudi Arabia could wear whatever they want and the Taliban wouldn't have flourished and so many girls wouldn't be deprived of getting an education, etc. and terrorist attacks around the world committed in the name of Allah wouldn't have been committed.

[DogOnPorch]

Istanbul was Constantinople...

AW: It's more than "a couple," and to minimize it that way is really just the opposite side of the coin of those who stereotype 'all/most' Muslims. If there were just "a couple of assholes" who felt that way women/girls in countries like Saudi Arabia could wear whatever they want and the Taliban wouldn't have flourished and so many girls wouldn't be deprived of getting an education, etc. and terrorist attacks around the world committed in the name of Allah wouldn't have been committed.

Exact-a-mundo.

[monkeyman]

It's more than "a couple," and to minimize it that way is really just the opposite side of the coin of those who stereotype 'all/most' Muslims. If there were just "a couple of assholes" who felt that way women/girls in countries like Saudi Arabia could wear whatever they want and the Taliban wouldn't have flourished and so many girls wouldn't be deprived of getting an education, etc. and terrorist attacks around the world committed in the name of Allah wouldn't have been committed.

A couple, a HUGE minority. As I said, a lot of people never went in Muslim countries and don't know how it works out there, I did. The assholes in Algeria that ruined the country in the 90s are a MINORITY.

I dont't agree on your comment, because the most bad acts commited by Muslim people you see them on television or radio, internet, newspapers.

Crime has no colour, no race, no religion, you have criminals in every religion, every culture, every country.

You want me to say that the majority of Muslim people are ''assholes'' ? I'm sorry I cannot say that because it's not true and because I went and saw how Muslim people behave in some countries.

Saudi Arabia has 20M People, Islam has 1,5 BILLIONS people.

A Muslim who will kill his wife, will be an asshole + a F#### Muslim. A white Caucasian will just be an asshole......

Because we always need to have THE OTHER, now it's the Muslim, before it was the Italians, after it became Jews.

[Bonam]

A couple, a HUGE minority. As I said, a lot of people never went in Muslim countries and don't know how it works out there, I did. The assholes in Algeria that ruined the country in the 90s are a MINORITY.

A minority perhaps, but a large one, if they wield enough power and influence to "ruin a country". What of the ruling theocracy in Iran? The terrorist regime in Gaza? The totalitarian government of Saudi Arabia? The murderous fanatics of the Taliban that controlled Afghanistan before 2001? Plenty more examples.

I dont't agree on your comment, because the most bad acts commited by Muslim people you see them on television or radio, internet, newspapers.

Crime has no colour, no race, no religion, you have criminals in every religion, every culture, every country.

Crime is an action committed by an individual. The individual has all of the attributes you mentioned. Groups with some of these attributes may have higher rates of certain types of crimes than other groups. How many Buddhist terrorists do you see, compared to how many Muslim ones? How many Caucasian terrorists do you see, and how many Arab ones? How many Tunisian terrorists do you see, and how many Iraqi ones? Terrorism most certainly has different incidences among different religions, races, and cultures, as the above examples should clearly illustrate. The answers are obvious, and the issue cannot simply be swept under the rug.

You want me to say that the majority of Muslim people are ''assholes'' ? I'm sorry I cannot say that because it's not true and because I went and saw how Muslim people behave in some countries.

Saudi Arabia has 20M People, Islam has 1,5 BILLIONS people.

No one is saying anything about a "majority". But if it's a minority, even a small percentage, of the 1.5 billion people you mention, it's a very significant factor, and something that can pose a significant threat.

A Muslim who will kill his wife, will be an asshole + a F#### Muslim. A white Caucasian will just be an asshole......

I think asshole is a bit of a weak term for someone that kills his wife. Murderer would be more appropriate. And no, the white person will be called a "white male" in the crime report, not an "asshole".

Because we always need to have THE OTHER, now it's the Muslim, before it was the Italians, after it became Jews.

You don't do your cause any good by crying discrimination and trying to dump the problems of Islam and Islamic societies upon others. If you are a moderate Muslim who does not support extremism, as you say you are, you would be best served by loudly condemning extremist actions and acknowledging the problem, rather than trying to ignore it and minimize it. That, I think, is the greatest complaint a typical Westerner would have against your typical moderate Muslim. Rather than standing up and condemning extremism, and working against the hijacking of their religion by fanatics, many moderate Muslims seem instead to feel as you do, trying to blame it all on discrimination and ignoring the very real issues.

[kimmy]

A couple, a HUGE minority. As I said, a lot of people never went in Muslim countries and don't know how it works out there, I did. The assholes in Algeria that ruined the country in the 90s are a MINORITY.

They might be a small minority. However, they are committed enough to fight and kill for their beliefs, able to recruit funds and followers, and organized enough to be effective and dangerous.

I really don't know what portion of the population of, say, Nigeria is comprised of fanatical, violent Islamists. However, I do know that however many there are have been able to create a tremendous amount of death and damage in that country in attempts to impose their beliefs on others.

btw, I've worked with a number of Muslims in some of the jobs I've had, and I've never had any difficulty with any of them. On the whole I have to agree that Muslims I've met have been very decent and pleasant people.

-k

[jbg]

Now, the problem is not ISLAM, it's the culture in some countries. For example, did you guys know that the right to vote for women was given in Tunisia like 20 years before France. Tunisian women are as free as French, North American etc. Political women are well known in Indonesia (biggest Muslim country, Bangladesh and many more).

I agree to the extent that Islam is an overlay of some very violent cultures.

I do think that Islam hasn't done much to reduce these violent tendencies though. The areas that Marco Polo found dangerous still are. Certain areas such as Pakistan that were once tame have, no question degenerated. Savagery levels have dropped, though, in most Christian countries.

I do not blame Islam. It simply has not improved mattters much.

[monkeyman]

You don't do your cause any good by crying discrimination and trying to dump the problems of Islam and Islamic societies upon others. If you are a moderate Muslim who does not support extremism, as you say you are, you would be best served by loudly condemning extremist actions and acknowledging the problem, rather than trying to ignore it and minimize it. That, I think, is the greatest complaint a typical Westerner would have against your typical moderate Muslim. Rather than standing up and condemning extremism, and working against the hijacking of their religion by fanatics, many moderate Muslims seem instead to feel as you do, trying to blame it all on discrimination and ignoring the very real issues.

What do you expect ? What is it for you to Condemn extremists ?

What discrimination am I talking about ? I'm stating some FACTS, the facts are that the HUGE majority of Muslims behave very well, and we have our share parts of assholes that I CONDEMN and will always do !

What do you want us MODERATE MUSLIMS to do to condemn? Start a War in Canada with them ? You have really some nice words, but it's not possible. When we had "Comission Bouchard Taylor" MOST OF THE MUSLIMS who were there said that they don't agree with the demands of the ridiculous minority that think they are still in some Muslim countries. What do you want us to do more ?

And you think that if many moderate Muslims would loudly condemn extremists, it would change something ? Basque People, do they condemn Basque terrorists, did it change something ? Assholes will remain Assholes, like Ignorants will remain Ignorants.

I called extremists assholes since I started the Thread, I will refresh your mind, because you took a couple of sentences and you isolated a lot of interesting things. Basically, what I wrote is 0% true, it's 100% false, I'll write it again for you, so you can see I'm 100% wrong.

----

To be honest, the more bad things I heard about Islam were said by people who never met some ever!

Now, the problem is not ISLAM, it's the culture in some countries. For example, did you guys know that the right to vote for women was given in Tunisia like 20 years before France. Tunisian women are as free as French, North American etc. Political women are well known in Indonesia (biggest Muslim country, Bangladesh and many more).

I think it's written in the Koran (I'm Muslim but never read it!) " If someone steels, cut his hand". That sentence is applied only in Saudi Arabia, which means that 95% of Muslim countries don't to that and 99.9% of Muslim people. Muslim people are victimized because the Medias tend to show what the want, since they want us to think that Islam is bad and Muslim people are bad. They prefer to show us some terrorists, some women that are dominated, instead of showing us the friendliness of Muslim people etc .

My parents come from Tunisia and I went there many times, I went also in Morocco with a White Canadian girlfriend, she didn't have ONE PROBLEM. People there are friendly, no one asked her if she wanted to marry him of them etc. They were flirting a lot, but it has nothing to do with it ! Go in an African Christian country and you'll see that they flirt a lot also.

Some Muslim people are assholes, it's true, but some French, English, Spanish, Chinese are also.

People who say that Islam cannot evolve don't know much, how come Tunisia evolved? Morocco? Indonesia, Turkey, Bosnia? It's not about the religion, it's about the culture in some countries. And Yes, in Morocco you will find an ANECDOTE that says a woman was killed by her husband because she cheated on him, it happens and will always do. But it's not the MAJORITY of people who are like that.

By the way, Muslim people where ''are'' allowed to have many wifes in the past, but it was not to dominate women, it was because women could not live by themselves, so they needed a man to help them to survive. As I said before, MOST OF THE MUSLIMS don't have many wifes, as a matter of fact I never knew one, in my family, here or etc.

The problem is not Islam, it's the interpretation of it by a couple of assholes.

Edited August 14, 2009 by monkeyman

[monkeyman]

Crime is an action committed by an individual. The individual has all of the attributes you mentioned. Groups with some of these attributes may have higher rates of certain types of crimes than other groups. How many Buddhist terrorists do you see, compared to how many Muslim ones? How many Caucasian terrorists do you see, and how many Arab ones? How many Tunisian terrorists do you see, and how many Iraqi ones? Terrorism most certainly has different incidences among different religions, races, and cultures, as the above examples should clearly illustrate. The answers are obvious, and the issue cannot simply be swept under the rug.

You have stats to prove that ? You think that because you don't see some Buddhist Terrorists on Tv that they don't exist ?

Christians??? Basques, Ira, FLQ, Concerned Christians, Klux Klux Klan, these came at my mind right Away!

You basically know what you see on Tv my friend, and on t.v. these days they only speak about some ASSHOLES that are Muslims!

[Guest American Woman]

You want me to say that the majority of Muslim people are ''assholes'' ?

Sounds as if you stereotype non-Muslims.

Carry on.

[jbg]

The problem is not Islam, it's the interpretation of it by a couple of assholes.

The answer to the rest of your post is that there is no evidence that "moderate" Muslims marginalize the "extremists" at all. And most quite support the "extremists'" views on Israel.

[Argus]

What do you want us MODERATE MUSLIMS to do to condemn? Start a War in Canada with them ? You have really some nice words, but it's not possible. When we had "Comission Bouchard Taylor" MOST OF THE MUSLIMS who were there said that they don't agree with the demands of the ridiculous minority that think they are still in some Muslim countries. What do you want us to do more ?

Some small minority you got there. Just a couple of assholes. ie, 55% who want Sharia law in Canada

In December 2006, the Environics Polling firm surveyed 500 adult Muslims across Canada on a variety of subjects. The survey found that 45 percent of Canadian Muslims possess a university degree (or higher), compared with 33 percent of the general Canadian population. 94 percent of those surveyed were proud of being Canadian, citing Canadian policies of democracy, multiculturalism, peace and humanitarianism as sources of their pride. This majority believe that they are treated better here than in any other Western country and that the quality of life for Muslim women is better here than anywhere else (including most Muslim countries). 53 percent of Muslims think Shariah law should be recognized as a legal basis for settling family disputes, outlawed in 2006. Of those surveyed, 55 percent of Muslim women and 59 percent of Muslims aged 18 to 29 indicated their preference for Sharia law. When asked what they liked least about Canada, the majority replied: “weather and taxes.” The results were accurate to within plus or minus 4.4 percentage points (in 19 out of 20 samples).

[monkeyman]

Ok Well all Muslims are for the Sharriah,

All Muslims are for having many wifes

All Muslims don't integrate

All Muslims are extremists,

The few moderates that exist are for extremists

Muslim people think women are animals

Muslim people don't like Canada

There you go, now I've answered in a way some of you guys want me to answer.

Oh and I forgot, The Charriah states that you need to kill everyone, hate Occidental people, not Integrate, cut hands (like in the majority of Muslims countries...), it will ruin Canada etc... And of course, the Charriah will be applied to the majority of people that are not Muslims....

Of course, I'm the only moderate Muslim in Canada, that don't want to know anything about the Charriah being applied here, as it isn't in my country of origin.

Now I've answered 100% in a way that some of you guys want me to answer.

Your scare about Muslim people is pathetic, you guys think that Islam will run Canada one day. Stop watching tee vee and reading stats or newspapers. Get out of your houses and meet some for God sake !

Edited August 14, 2009 by monkeyman

[CANADIEN]

Ok Well all Muslims are for the Sharriah,

All Muslims are for having many wifes

All Muslims don't integrate

All Muslims are extremists,

The few moderates that exist are for extremists

Muslim people think women are animals

Muslim people don't like Canada

There you go, now I've answered in a way some of you guys want me to answer.

Oh and I forgot, The Charriah states that you need to kill everyone, hate Occidental people, not Integrate, cut hands (like in the majority of Muslims countries...), it will ruin Canada etc... And of course, the Charriah will be applied to the majority of people that are not Muslims....

Of course, I'm the only moderate Muslim in Canada, that don't want to know anything about the Charriah being applied here, as it isn't in my country of origin.

Now I've answered 100% in a way that some of you guys want me to answer.

Your scare about Muslim people is pathetic, you guys think that Islam will run Canada one day. Stop watching tee vee and reading stats or newspapers. Get out of your houses and meet some for God sake !

Now you got the proper answer. All you have to do now is to renounce Islam completely (and I mean completely), then leave this country to the white men because you are by definition a bad bad man.

Or you can ignore the idiocy I just posted (on purpose) and get on with your life.

[Sir Bandelot]

Canada is a tolerant society, and should allow muslims to live in our country, but not be able to change our laws. Certain laws should be protected at all times, by absolute rule, regardless of the culture. For the same reason muslim women must also be protected, by law, from violence upon them by muslim males.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[monkeyman]

Canada is a tolerant society, and should allow muslims to live in our country, but not be able to change our laws. Certain laws should be protected at all times, by absolute rule, regardless of the culture. For the same reason muslim women must also be protected, by law, from violence upon them by muslim males.

Yes, like white women should be protected for violence.

Did you ever see a Muslim women beaten by a man on T.V.? in Canada