scorpio Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Argus doesn't have a "brain tumour".....get it? My cat can get faster care if he wants it....not needs it. You're making my point. Why have a cat scan if you don't need it. Plus I was only suspected of having a brain tumour. Luckily I didn't. The system accomodates those that require these exams, not for Joe Blow on the street wandering into a clinic just for sake of getting a scan. Most of us will gladly wait if someone needs the surgery/scan more than we do. It's kinda a Canadian thing. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 You're making my point. Why have a cat scan if you don't need it. Plus I was only suspected of having a brain tumour. Luckily I didn't. The system accomodates those that require these exams, not for Joe Blow on the street wandering into a clinic just for sake of getting a scan. Most of us will gladly wait if someone needs the surgery/scan more than we do. It's kinda a Canadian thing. Because I can. Getting what we want when we want it is an American thang. Did you know that we can also get 31 flavors of ice cream? When you get tired of waiting, we know where to find you. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Dave_ON Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Posted July 22, 2009 Worth pursuing as government revenues shrink. Why hasn't Canada socialized food, clothing, and housing? Lack of food can be deadly, not to mention exposure in winter. Actually we have, just like the Americans it's called social assistance here, I believe your term is welfare. There are plenty of food subsidies in the states, not to mention farmers are tax exempt on farm related purchases such as farm equipment. They often time the purchase of this equipment in such a way that it cuts into their revenue on paper so they pay less or no income tax that way either. So not only do you pay for the food you buy BC you're also subsidizing it's production with your tax dollars, that doesn't seem very "american" to me. While we're in a government services cutting mood, why not disband the US Forces and the government altogether. With no services left for them to administer, it seems the next logical step. Perhaps you should look at the feudal system, it worked in Europe for hundreds of years. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Actually we have, just like the Americans it's called social assistance here, I believe your term is welfare. There are plenty of food subsidies in the states, not to mention farmers are tax exempt on farm related purchases such as farm equipment. They often time the purchase of this equipment in such a way that it cuts into their revenue on paper so they pay less or no income tax that way either. So not only do you pay for the food you buy BC you're also subsidizing it's production with your tax dollars, that doesn't seem very "american" to me. I don't qualify for such programs..they are not universal. Your unclever analogy ends right there. While we're in a government services cutting mood, why not disband the US Forces and the government altogether. With no services left for them to administer, it seems the next logical step. Perhaps you should look at the feudal system, it worked in Europe for hundreds of years. Great idea...then the arrogant Americans can kick your monarchy in the ass all over again! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Dave_ON Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Posted July 22, 2009 I don't qualify for such programs..they are not universal. Your unclever analogy ends right there. In other words you lack sufficient wherewithal to engage in the discussion, you’re surrender is accepted. As an aside “Unclever” isn't a word; looks like there is no need to cut your education system if they're teaching you words like that in 'merican schools. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 In other words you lack sufficient wherewithal to engage in the discussion, you’re surrender is accepted. As an aside “Unclever” isn't a word; looks like there is no need to cut your education system if they're teaching you words like that in 'merican schools. But I am engaged, operating on minimun effort just to play Rope-A-Dope with you. American schools are good enough for the leader of your Liberal Party.....LOL! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shakeyhands Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 I have 3 friends within the last three weeks diagnosed with various forms of cancer. These guys don't go to hospitals or ever believe they are sick. Its sad that all are in their mid to late 40s and 2 smoke and one doesn't. Regardless, there was no wait time for any of them. They have been taken in immediately and yes the situation is critical for all three. Each time I was shocked at how fast this has occurred, and how quickly they have been in for chemo and surgeries and for one, how soon he was released afterwards and continues to go for treatment. Yet these guys are far from out of the woods. Personally I am gutted, and I don't want to lose some of my friends and former coworkers. Ones in Cambridge, the other two are in Hamilton. They are receiving great care. Sadly the moment my one friend explained to Toyota that he wouldn't be available for work and the reason why he was going into hospital, they terminated his employment immediately. Similar story here, some of you will recall me telling you about one of my daughters who was at RMC, she just graduated this spring and found out two weeks ago that she has Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, she has already had surgery to repair damage and starts here chemo this week. If you have a situation that requires immediate attention, you get it. If it's not emergent, you get an appointment. Seems to work just fine. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Dave_ON Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Posted July 22, 2009 But I am engaged, operating on minimun effort just to play Rope-A-Dope with you. American schools are good enough for the leader of your Liberal Party.....LOL! [/quote Your are correct your arguments are minimal. Ignatieff attended an American public shool while residing in Canada? There's no shame in surrender, I still have every bit of respect for you as I do for France during WWII. Quote Follow the man who seeks the truth; run from the man who has found it. -Vaclav Haval-
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Worth pursuing as government revenues shrink. Why hasn't Canada socialized food, clothing, and housing? Lack of food can be deadly, not to mention exposure in winter. Food is socialized in America. Your government poors billions every year into the farm industry to bring down costs so people can buy it cheep. The government pays much of your food costs. Quote
Wild Bill Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 If it's not emergent, you get an appointment. Seems to work just fine. No, that is not true at all! Your experience was fast. For others it's slow! Just because you had good luck is no reason to make the assumption that everything is perfect! As I had posted, I personally witnessed how an emergency request for an MRI would take 8 weeks. The sad truth is that it is usually a crap shoot. I personally waited months for a heart bypass. Of course, if it had been an emergency I would have been rushed in. That's not the point. Sometimes you die before the ambulance can be notified and can pick you up! That's what happened to my younger brother. It's nice that we don't have to worry about the money. However, to pretend that we also give as modern and as rapid service in all cases as other countries is simply not true. No amount of emotional patriotism can change obvious facts. I'm not saying we should change to an American system. I'm saying we should stop being so complacent about the flaws in our own system and do something about them, instead of carping at the Americans like somehow we're more "moral". Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 It's nice that we don't have to worry about the money. However, to pretend that we also give as modern and as rapid service in all cases as other countries is simply not true.No amount of emotional patriotism can change obvious facts. How was it before Medicare? If you didn't need and it wasn't an emergency you were turned away if you lacked funds. Then you died waiting either for the money or to get worse. I see no difference but now the rich are hurt as much as the poor. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 No, that is not true at all!Your experience was fast. For others it's slow! Just because you had good luck is no reason to make the assumption that everything is perfect! As I had posted, I personally witnessed how an emergency request for an MRI would take 8 weeks. The sad truth is that it is usually a crap shoot. I personally waited months for a heart bypass. Of course, if it had been an emergency I would have been rushed in. That's not the point. Sometimes you die before the ambulance can be notified and can pick you up! That's what happened to my younger brother. It's nice that we don't have to worry about the money. However, to pretend that we also give as modern and as rapid service in all cases as other countries is simply not true. No amount of emotional patriotism can change obvious facts. I'm not saying we should change to an American system. I'm saying we should stop being so complacent about the flaws in our own system and do something about them, instead of carping at the Americans like somehow we're more "moral". The funniest part of my story... this is all happening in Kingston ON. Sorry Mate... It's true. Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Jerry J. Fortin Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Look folks, BC does have some valid points. Some woman did whine and complain and head south for treatment, that is a fact. The Americans will play this up, we all know that. The reality is that she is a statistical anomaly, most folks don't run into trouble at all. Yes there are wait times and yes there are instances of a mis-diagnosis that results in tragedy because of it. These are medical problems folks, they differ from one person to another all the time. No system is perfect, and we have our share of problems with our own system. Even so, America spends twice what we do per capita and not everyone is insured. In Canada you don't go bankrupt paying medical expenses, in America you will without their private insurance schemes that are very restrictive and complicated to operate. Even BC admits their administrative expenses are much higher than ours. The reality is that each nation has its own plan, some are better than others. In America they have excellent doctors,incredible hospitals and treatments, but they are expensive as hell. Here we already cover every citizen, so we don;t have the expense of finding a way to do that. We can afford the modern technologies that assist in diagnosis and we have a viable education system to train the professionals to work within the system. Our only real problems are administrative and delivery. Those can be overcome with a little effort to tidy up the mess we perceive to have with wait times. Overall the system works and covers all citizens. Quote
nicky10013 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 No, that is not true at all!Your experience was fast. For others it's slow! Just because you had good luck is no reason to make the assumption that everything is perfect! As I had posted, I personally witnessed how an emergency request for an MRI would take 8 weeks. The sad truth is that it is usually a crap shoot. I personally waited months for a heart bypass. Of course, if it had been an emergency I would have been rushed in. That's not the point. Sometimes you die before the ambulance can be notified and can pick you up! That's what happened to my younger brother. It's nice that we don't have to worry about the money. However, to pretend that we also give as modern and as rapid service in all cases as other countries is simply not true. No amount of emotional patriotism can change obvious facts. I'm not saying we should change to an American system. I'm saying we should stop being so complacent about the flaws in our own system and do something about them, instead of carping at the Americans like somehow we're more "moral". Personally, I blame geography. People in Toronto like me won't wait at all whereas people in the north have gigantic wait times. It's something we need to fix, for sure. There are clear problems with the system like this. Personally, if I were in parliament, I would hold town halls across the country to discuss our system in comparison with systems like Britain and France and which areas the cover better and which areas they cover are worse, but granted also don't suffer some of the geographical problems that Canada does. Town halls themselves might not get much done at first but discussion is the first step towards bringing non-essential, and yes, even essential wait times under control. It's everyone's health care system and although I despise populism, talking to everyone is needed simply due to the fact that we need to know what works the best for each community. Quote
Guest TrueMetis Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) The best solution to fix the few problems about Canadian Healthcare is to add a private sector to compete with the pubic sector like many European countries have they don't pay much more than we do and they've got the great healthcare. If done right it would reduce or eliminate wait times. oh and the bitch in the american anti-healthcare ads had a cyst not a brain tumor like she said. Tottaly different and none life threatening Edited July 22, 2009 by TrueMetis Quote
nicky10013 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 The best solution to fix the few problems about Canadian Healthcare is to add a private sector to compete with the pubic sector like many European countries have they don't pay much more than we do and they've got the great healthcare. If done right it would reduce or eliminate wait times.oh and the bitch in the american anti-healthcare ads had a cyst not a brain tumor like she said. Tottaly different and none life threatening Possibly. I think it needs study which is why I think town halls are the best way to go about it. And I don't think that it's COMPLETELY as two tiered as people think in Europe. I remember seeing a global news spot on Swiss care and from the spot it made it seem as if as far as it went was paying for private rooms in hospitals etc. Though I clearly could be mistaken. Quote
Shady Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 I call bullshit. I was suspected of having a brain tumour and was in the next day for CAT scan. You are a broken record BC and have no idea of how our system works. I call complete bullshit on that. You cannot get a CAT scan or MRI the next day. Sorry. Actually you can, if you're a cat or dog, but that's it. Quote
nicky10013 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 I call complete bullshit on that. You cannot get a CAT scan or MRI the next day. Sorry. Actually you can, if you're a cat or dog, but that's it. I had a CT the next day. Quote
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 I call complete bullshit on that. You cannot get a CAT scan or MRI the next day. Sorry. Actually you can, if you're a cat or dog, but that's it. Yeah you can. Just because you been feed horror stories does not make his story not true. Quote
Guest TrueMetis Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Possibly. I think it needs study which is why I think town halls are the best way to go about it. And I don't think that it's COMPLETELY as two tiered as people think in Europe. I remember seeing a global news spot on Swiss care and from the spot it made it seem as if as far as it went was paying for private rooms in hospitals etc. Though I clearly could be mistaken. Considering the two biggest problems are healthcare system has is lack of doctors and wait times we are in pretty good shape. Especially since we are getting more doctors and nurses which should also reduce wait times. The biggest problem then will be healthcare in isolated communities were your suggestion would be best to figure out how to fix it. It could end up being we don't need a private sector at all which seems possible because healthcare is the one thing are government can actually run and not fuck up. Quote
Bonam Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 The biggest problem then will be healthcare in isolated communities were your suggestion would be best to figure out how to fix it. Telerobotics. Quote
Shady Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 It could end up being we don't need a private sector at all Not true. It's thanks to private clinics that wait times on certain tests and procedures have been shortened. And private health insurance shouldn't be illegal in Canada. Quote
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Not true. It's thanks to private clinics that wait times on certain tests and procedures have been shortened. And private health insurance shouldn't be illegal in Canada. Some what true but not in all cases. Edited July 22, 2009 by punked Quote
Guest TrueMetis Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Telerobotics. That thing scares the shit out of me... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 ..oh and the bitch in the american anti-healthcare ads had a cyst not a brain tumor like she said. Tottaly different and none life threatening Not life threatening? How is she going to drive safely IF SHE'S FRICKIN' BLIND? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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