Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

[Argus]

It is a profit driven system, with wild excesses by design. The US government and states already have single payer systems that are better and cheaper than those found in Canada's provinces.

Cites please.

[Shady]

There's been a false choice setup, by mostly those of you on the left. It's not a choice between Canada's system, and America's system. There are other ways, and other systems to look at, in order to make ours better and more efficient. Take Germany's, private/public system. I wish we could do something similar here, but unfortuantely, the hard leftwing in this country, won't budge even an inch, even when it means the lives of people who are sick.

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[bush_cheney2004]

Give me a break, AS IF we are forcing our system on you. Canadians do in fact go to the US for treatments that they believe they need,want, or desire in a more timely basis than they believe they can get here. That itself is a fact. It is spun up very nicely too! Just how many Canadians do that, or even want to do that BC, let me tell you a little secret. It isn't very damned many. I think that even you will agree there are far more Americans seeking treatment and perscriptions from Canada by a long shot.

You'll need to back up such assertions with citations. I do know that Americans underwrite the R&D costs for prescription drugs in Canada. As for your "system", keep it and enjoy it, just don't assume it would work for Americans or anybody else.

You Americans can choose what you want for a system, nobody will dispute that. Yes France has an excellent system, I think the system in Germany is better, maybe Austria, I am not really sure, but the point is cost. Cost to the citizen and cost to business, you need to look at that little factor. The stats produced only show the cost per capita expended by governments! To get a complete picture you need to look at the cost to the end user. Insurance over there is paid by the employer, the employee AND by the government.

America has multiple service and payment options....serving far more people. More choices.....something that seems to have been lost in Canada for the perception of the greater good while waiting in queue. Canadians have insurance, but that does not always equate to access and care.....big, big difference.

Good thing Buffalo, Detroit, and Seattle are close to the border.

Edited July 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

Of course.....many Americans are insane.

Americans are gullible and easily frightened. Every time someone talks about bringing in public health care the wealthy insurance companies and other health care fat cats start putting out dishonest commercials aimed at scaring people away from it.

It sucks already without spending twice as much. Why is the wait so loooooooooooong?

It's not always long, and if we spent twice as much there would be zero wait.

On the other hand, even not treating 50 million people your system is still cruel, heartless, and inefficient. Every international study of health care outcomes consistently shows the Americans at the bottom of the pile among western nations in terms of survivability, infant mortality, life expectancy, etc., while spending far more than anyone else on the planet.

[Argus]

America has multiple service and payment options....serving far more people. More choices.....something that seems to have been lost in Canada for the perception of the greater good while waiting in queue. Canadians have insurance, but that does not always equate to access and care.....big, big difference.

The real choices are not open to Americans. You see the doctor your insurance company tells you to see. You go to the hospital they tell you you can go to. The doctor performs the type of operation and issues only the kinds of prescriptions the insurance clerks tell him he can, and ready or not, you're out the door when the insurance compan y says you should be, whether you're recovered from your operation or not.

[madmax]

Yep! Can't be true! She must be a liar! Shoot her!

Same old, same old. We will never fix anything if we deny there's a problem.

I guess the woman should have just waited and died, like a good Canadian.

I know for a fact about wait times. A very good friend collapsed at work with a seizure. Her doctor wanted an MRI. He was told that would take 6 months. He explained it was an emergency. He was then told it would be 6 weeks.

I have 3 friends within the last three weeks diagnosed with various forms of cancer. These guys don't go to hospitals or ever believe they are sick. Its sad that all are in their mid to late 40s and 2 smoke and one doesn't.

Regardless, there was no wait time for any of them. They have been taken in immediately and yes the situation is critical for all three. Each time I was shocked at how fast this has occurred, and how quickly they have been in for chemo and surgeries and for one, how soon he was released afterwards and continues to go for treatment. Yet these guys are far from out of the woods.

Personally I am gutted, and I don't want to lose some of my friends and former coworkers.

Ones in Cambridge, the other two are in Hamilton. They are receiving great care.

Sadly the moment my one friend explained to Toyota that he wouldn't be available for work and the reason why he was going into hospital, they terminated his employment immediately.

[bush_cheney2004]

Americans are gullible and easily frightened. Every time someone talks about bringing in public health care the wealthy insurance companies and other health care fat cats start putting out dishonest commercials aimed at scaring people away from it.

Yea, its a wonder that Medicare, Medicaid, VA, SCHIP, MediCal, etc. programs exist at all, so scared be those insane Americans.

It's not always long, and if we spent twice as much there would be zero wait.

Do you get free magazines to read while you wait?

On the other hand, even not treating 50 million people your system is still cruel, heartless, and inefficient. Every international study of health care outcomes consistently shows the Americans at the bottom of the pile among western nations in terms of survivability, infant mortality, life expectancy, etc., while spending far more than anyone else on the planet.

Tough titty.....can't make any money kissing commie asses. We also pissed away billions to collect Moon rocks.

Edited July 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I am entertained, just the thought of Canada having something that the US doesn't is really funny. Does our system work better, maybe not, but everyone gets care and treatment. IT is your citizens wanting the change BC, not ours. In fact our citizens would likely revolt if we tried to change our system from what it is now to something else in an arbitrary manner.

So far today, CNN has spent the last 5 hours that I am aware of on this very subject. Both sides of the House want changes to your system, how and what is the big debate. The point is that your system is determined to be in dire need of reforms, not ours. We have our problems, but nothing like yours.

[madmax]

No, actually it doesn't. Adminstrative costs in the private US system are MASSIVELY higher than the government run system in Canada. The US system is grossly inefficient at allocating resources, monstrously expensive, and even while leaving 50 million Americans uninsured, still doesn't produce better results in terms of survival rates, life expeectancy, infant mortality, etc. than Canada.

It's also a socialistic system in that the doctors aren't free to operate or treat people as they choose, but must ask permission of the insurance commisar thousands of miles away sitting in a cubicle in an insurance company office.

I haven't felt this bad since having to concur with Guyser...

Argus hits a home run and doesn't miss the infant mortality rates in the US ...

[bush_cheney2004]

I am entertained, just the thought of Canada having something that the US doesn't is really funny. Does our system work better, maybe not, but everyone gets care and treatment. IT is your citizens wanting the change BC, not ours. In fact our citizens would likely revolt if we tried to change our system from what it is now to something else in an arbitrary manner.

The Canadians who want change cross the border when they have to.

So far today, CNN has spent the last 5 hours that I am aware of on this very subject. Both sides of the House want changes to your system, how and what is the big debate. The point is that your system is determined to be in dire need of reforms, not ours. We have our problems, but nothing like yours.

Oh no, your system is perfect, as long as Canadians suffer quietly in queue for God and Queen. Your doctors and nurses love to talk about how great it is after they get jobs abroad. This one citizen (Shona Holmes) is kicking some ass!

[bush_cheney2004]

....Argus hits a home run and doesn't miss the infant mortality rates in the US ...

Argus can't get an MRI or CAT scan tomorrow.

[lily]

Maybe because Argus doens't NEED one?

[Bonam]

Private clinics in Vancouver offer the world's most advanced MRIs on demand... with zero wait.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe because Argus doens't NEED one?

Wouldn't matter if he did.....please take a number and wait like a good little Canuck.

[lily]

Private clinics in Vancouver offer the world's most advanced MRIs on demand... with zero wait.

This is true.

[bush_cheney2004]

Private clinics in Vancouver offer the world's most advanced MRIs on demand... with zero wait.

Good....that's what I'm talking about. Money talks....bullshit walks.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Good....that's what I'm talking about. Money talks....bullshit walks.

But wait! This cannot be! A non communistic system of health care in Canada!

BC, you know diddle- squat about our system, that is clear. Our doctors all have private practices, just like yours. We have all kinds of private clinics, more and more each month. They all send their bills to the insurance providers, which are different in every province because each province administers its own system. The feds only set standards and minimum levels of coverage, the provinces do everything else.

You ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance BC. If you cannot get treatment in one city because of wait times, you can go to another city or another province for treatment, nobody has to go to the US, they are either too lazy or too stupid to seek treatment closer to home at no additional expense. Fools, actually.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

By the way BC, almost anyone in Canada can and usually does have extra insurance. Nearly everyone that works has a benefit plan that offers extra services above and beyond the provincial plans. I pay a 50$ deductible per year for perscription drugs, then get reimbursed for 80% of the cost of the drugs, this is family coverage.

[bush_cheney2004]

But wait! This cannot be! A non communistic system of health care in Canada!

I think you call it "socialism"

BC, you know diddle- squat about our system, that is clear. Our doctors all have private practices, just like yours. We have all kinds of private clinics, more and more each month. They all send their bills to the insurance providers, which are different in every province because each province administers its own system. The feds only set standards and minimum levels of coverage, the provinces do everything else.

Hey Einstein...we know how your broke dick system works...your escaping doctors and nurses pass on the information after interrogation at 'Gitmo.

You ignorance is only exceeded by your arrogance BC. If you cannot get treatment in one city because of wait times, you can go to another city or another province for treatment, nobody has to go to the US, they are either too lazy or too stupid to seek treatment closer to home at no additional expense. Fools, actually.

Well, one fool from Ontario is kicking your system right in its universal insurance, no access ass. The show is called, "As the Brain Tumor Turns".

"Arrogance" is my goal....how am I doing?

Edited July 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

By the way BC, almost anyone in Canada can and usually does have extra insurance. Nearly everyone that works has a benefit plan that offers extra services above and beyond the provincial plans. I pay a 50$ deductible per year for perscription drugs, then get reimbursed for 80% of the cost of the drugs, this is family coverage.

Yes, we already know that. Dental too. That's why "free" ain't so free in Canada.

[Dave_ON]

Good....that's what I'm talking about. Money talks....bullshit walks.

Then why have any publically funded institutions at all? Privatize education, if you can't afford it too bad. Hell cut taxes all together and let capitalism rule the whole damn country. Pave your own damn roads, deliver your own post and pay for your own private police/fire departments. Can't get much more "american" than that.

[Dave_ON]

Yes, we already know that. Dental too. That's why "free" ain't so free in Canada.

Only Americans refer to it as free, every Canadian knows we pay for it in our taxes. It's funny your fighting so hard against this, change in your own country is inevitable. I think you're going to have to get used to quite a few "unamerican" notions coming out of Washington, I guess only time will tell.

[bush_cheney2004]

Then why have any publically funded institutions at all? Privatize education, if you can't afford it too bad. Hell cut taxes all together and let capitalism rule the whole damn country. Pave your own damn roads, deliver your own post and pay for your own private police/fire departments. Can't get much more "american" than that.

Worth pursuing as government revenues shrink. Why hasn't Canada socialized food, clothing, and housing? Lack of food can be deadly, not to mention exposure in winter.

[scorpio]

Argus can't get an MRI or CAT scan tomorrow.

I call bullshit. I was suspected of having a brain tumour and was in the next day for CAT scan. You are a broken record BC and have no idea of how our system works.

[bush_cheney2004]

I call bullshit. I was suspected of having a brain tumour and was in the next day for CAT scan. You are a broken record BC and have no idea of how our system works.

Argus doesn't have a "brain tumour".....get it? My cat can get faster care if he wants it....not needs it.