Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

[benny]

Canada sends oil to poor Americans too.

But Canada doesn't send oil to be sold bellow the world price, like what was doing Chavez.

[Alta4ever]

But Canada doesn't send oil to be sold bellow the world price, like what was doing Chavez.

Chavez is an idiot.

[Werecar]

Your artical misses the point so badly its not about the numbers of doctors leaving, its about the quality of doctors leaving. Its our best and brightest. Just a question for you werecar If Canada's healthcare system is so stellar why is it when you are searching for the best most innovative and quickest healthcare why is it you head to the United States? Why is health tourism such a big cash cow in this country, its because our one size fits all health care system meets our basic needs but is useless beyond acess to your family doctor. If this wasn't the case then insurance companies would not offer long term care insurance, critical illness insurance, and people would not be buying.

Its too bad that you have no proof of that isn't it?

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

In fact just google "Canada+health-care+myths" and see how wrong you are.

This one is pretty good: http://crooksandliars.com/bluegal/rachel-m...h-edwards-shows

It funny all you can quote is articals, you have never been affected by the current incarnation of todays health care. I wonder how you will feel about it when one of you parents or grand parents is deigned a hip replacement because they are too old, and you are forced to watch as their quality of life slips away from them, as they lose the mobility and subiquently just give up on life sit and stare out a window in an old folks home just waiting for death. Trust me it is not fun.

Really? You know my personal experiences based on a few posts eh? Shall I tell you about my mother and cancer? My father recently getting 2 stents implanted after a heart attack?

Shall I explain to you that I am a health care worker and I have actual knowledge of the system? Have you talked to actual physicians about this very topic? Did you work for a pathologist who left the US and emigrated to Ontario and sings the praises of our system? Did you talk to a OB-GYN who left the US because malpractice insurance was so bad?

Funny how I quote actual articles and stats and all you have is a few incidences that are countered by all the other people with great experiences?

[Alta4ever]

Its too bad that you have no proof of that isn't it?

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

In fact just google "Canada+health-care+myths" and see how wrong you are.

This one is pretty good: http://crooksandliars.com/bluegal/rachel-m...h-edwards-shows

Really? You know my personal experiences based on a few posts eh? Shall I tell you about my mother and cancer? My father recently getting 2 stents implanted after a heart attack?

Shall I explain to you that I am a health care worker and I have actual knowledge of the system? Have you talked to actual physicians about this very topic? Did you work for a pathologist who left the US and emigrated to Ontario and sings the praises of our system? Did you talk to a OB-GYN who left the US because malpractice insurance was so bad?

Funny how I quote actual articles and stats and all you have is a few incidences that are countered by all the other people with great experiences?

I have actual experiences with it what you have nothing. I have gone through the pain of losing a loved one due to the inherent flaws of our medical system you? Didn't think so. You have articals that are based on nothing no real life experience, you got the words of some author who has never experienced the system failing first hand.

[benny]

Chavez is an idiot.

Chavez is inspired by Che Guevara who began his adult life as a physician and end it as a famous revolutionary.

[Smallc]

Our Doctors are neither the best or the brightest just what is deemed adiquate by our government.

That is an outright lie, and I challenge you to prove it sir. I have enough experience with this system to know that people get what they need when they need it, as long as it isn't experimental. If it isn't covered, you have the option to buy the service at a private facility since it isn't covered by the provincial health plan. Sometimes, if you meet a certain criteria, the government will even assist with your costs...or cover the entire experimental procedure. Op perhaps, your sanity that is Alberta has a health system that is lacking compared to Manitoba. Manitoba sends people wherever they need to go. Perhaps you should work to improve your system and stop trying to change it based simply on your ideological opinion. Maybe you as 'sane' Albertans could start by voting your prehistoric government out, since they don't seem to have a clue as to what they are doing with anything.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Smallc

[benny]

That is an outright lie, and I challenge you to prove it sir.

It is a truism rather since our government legislates relatively to medical errors.

[Smallc]

Guidelines for physicians are set by both the government and the Canadian Medical Association, along with the provincial medical associations.

[benny]

Guidelines for physicians are set by both the government and the Canadian Medical Association, along with the provincial medical associations.

Lobbies protect their members from the best and brightest.

[Werecar]

I have actual experiences with it what you have nothing. I have gone through the pain of losing a loved one due to the inherent flaws of our medical system you? Didn't think so. You have articals that are based on nothing no real life experience, you got the words of some author who has never experienced the system failing first hand.

Excuse me? Now I see why radsicle has so much of a problem with you.

I repeat:

Really? You know my personal experiences based on a few posts eh? Shall I tell you about my mother and cancer? My father recently getting 2 stents implanted after a heart attack?

Shall I explain to you that I am a health care worker and I have actual knowledge of the system? Have you talked to actual physicians about this very topic? Did you work for a pathologist who left the US and emigrated to Ontario and sings the praises of our system? Did you talk to a OB-GYN who left the US because malpractice insurance was so bad?

Not only do I have real life experience that at least equals yours but I work in the health care field. Do you not think we debate the merits of our system vs the US system at length? In fact I posted real industry evidence about how Ontarians (and my lab works in all the provinces now so likely the same for them) receive some 150 million in extra care per year because of our system thereby providing services they might not otherwise be able to afford.

[benny]

Everyone should be ready to die for justice instead of dying of treatable but untreated illnesses.

[Alta4ever]

Excuse me? Now I see why radsicle has so much of a problem with you.

I repeat:

Really? You know my personal experiences based on a few posts eh? Shall I tell you about my mother and cancer? My father recently getting 2 stents implanted after a heart attack?

Shall I explain to you that I am a health care worker and I have actual knowledge of the system?

Have you talked to actual physicians about this very topic? Did you work for a pathologist who left the US and emigrated to Ontario and sings the praises of our system? Did you talk to a OB-GYN who left the US because malpractice insurance was so bad?

Not only do I have real life experience that at least equals yours but I work in the health care field. Do you not think we debate the merits of our system vs the US system at length? In fact I posted real industry evidence about how Ontarians (and my lab works in all the provinces now so likely the same for them) receive some 150 million in extra care per year because of our system thereby providing services they might not otherwise be able to afford.

That exlpains it you want to protect the crap service you offer.

[Werecar]

That exlpains it you want to protect the crap service you offer.

Yeah, I thought as much. With your argument in tatters and your points defeated you toss out an ad hominem attack on me insinuating that because I support (and attack all the other health care workers who do as well) our health care system I somehow provide crap service. Got news for you sunshine, my lab is a private lab and thus equal to any US lab (we are US certified btw). The only difference is that under Canadian/Ontario billing we provide free health care.

What do you do sunshine? Can I insult your level of commitment and professionalism based on your political beliefs also?

[Alta4ever]

Yeah, I thought as much. With your argument in tatters and your points defeated you toss out an ad hominem attack on me insinuating that because I support (and attack all the other health care workers who do as well) our health care system I somehow provide crap service. Got news for you sunshine, my lab is a private lab and thus equal to any US lab (we are US certified btw). The only difference is that under Canadian/Ontario billing we provide free health care.

What do you do sunshine? Can I insult your level of commitment and professionalism based on your political beliefs also?

Go ahead, you have yet to have your life devesated by the level of "service" rendered by Universal health care.

[Werecar]

Go ahead, you have yet to have your life devesated by the level of "service" rendered by Universal health care.

In other words you got nothing but a bitter experience because someone in your life died and you blame the entire system.

That would never happen under a US system of care.

BTW sunshine, I've shared enough personal experiences with you as I care too. I have lost family and I have also had family saved by our system.

You just want to troll anybody who doesn't agree with you.

So far on the topic of Canadian healthcare I have:

1) Professional experience.

2) Professional discussions with all related fields working in the system.

3) Personal experience with myself and friends and family.

4) Lots of articles and stats supporting my position.

You have:

1) A bitter experience which you use to denigrate the entire Canadian health care system and everybody who works in it and supports it.

You are done sunshine. Say goodnight and walk off with at least some shred of dignity left because you have no facts or evidence to support your poor opinion of the system that seems to beat the US system in all the stats that count.

[benny]

You are done sunshine.

Suncor or Syncrude would be a better nickname for Alta4ever.

[Alta4ever]

In other words you got nothing but a bitter experience because someone in your life died and you blame the entire system.

That would never happen under a US system of care.

BTW sunshine, I've shared enough personal experiences with you as I care too. I have lost family and I have also had family saved by our system.

You just want to troll anybody who doesn't agree with you.

So far on the topic of Canadian healthcare I have:

1) Professional experience.

2) Professional discussions with all related fields working in the system.

3) Personal experience with myself and friends and family.

4) Lots of articles and stats supporting my position.

You have:

1) A bitter experience which you use to denigrate the entire Canadian health care system and everybody who works in it and supports it.

You are done sunshine. Say goodnight and walk off with at least some shred of dignity left because you have no facts or evidence to support your poor opinion of the system that seems to beat the US system in all the stats that count.

Your darn right I have evidence, I have posted it all before the doctor that my mother was seeing recommended that the treatement she needed was south of the boarder, we applied to alberta health to al least have a portion of it covered, they denigned us. How many others has this happened to I don't know, but as far as I am concerned it should happen to one. If our health care was so great we would have no waiting lists, our elderly would get the hip replacements and other quality of life services that see to be deigned if you do not fit the criteria, we have buercrats decided what kind and level of service you will get, and its pathetic. Our citizens should get the best treatment everytime, not the only one the local/regional hospital provides.

You show me the stat the 100% of people get the right treatment each and every time and all patients have had all avenues open to them and have not had to spend a single day on a waiting list, and I might change my mind. So far all I have seen from you is stats and reports of doctors comming and going from someone who has a vested inrest in the system.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Your darn right I have evidence, I have posted it all before the doctor that my mother was seeing recommended that the treatement she needed was south of the boarder, we applied to alberta health to al least have a portion of it covered, they denigned us. How many others has this happened to I don't know, but as far as I am concerned it should happen to one. If our health care was so great we would have no waiting lists, our elderly would get the hip replacements and other quality of life services that see to be deigned if you do not fit the criteria, we have buercrats decided what kind and level of service you will get, and its pathetic. Our citizens should get the best treatment everytime, not the only one the local/regional hospital provides.

You show me the stat the 100% of people get the right treatment each and every time and all patients have had all avenues open to them and have not had to spend a single day on a waiting list, and I might change my mind. So far all I have seen from you is stats and reports of doctors comming and going from someone who has a vested inrest in the system.

What world do you live in? There is not a single heathcare system in the world that can boast that. You want absolute profection which is not possible, you might as well off yourself now.

[benny]

So far all I have seen from you is stats and reports of doctors comming and going from someone who has a vested inrest in the system.

About you having a vested interest in your family!?

[Topaz]

The main difference between the US and Canada's is the US doesn't have patient waiting UNLESS they can't afford it or they have to go and borrow the money if they are one of the 40 million without healthcare and here in Canada there are wait times and every province is different but the patient doesn't have to go broke getting care. I've heard more Americans say on radio talk shows they rather have to wait then cough up $30,000.00 themselves, so which would any of you rather do? My spouse has had to deal with cancer since 2001 and we have never had to wait more than 2 weeks and only because of the number of people being treated but today he's clear and I have no problem with Ontario health system and the Libs have improved it since Harris.

[benny]

Bottom line: one who is allergic to paying taxes has no right to complain about not having public healthcare.

[Alta4ever]

The main difference between the US and Canada's is the US doesn't have patient waiting UNLESS they can't afford it or they have to go and borrow the money if they are one of the 40 million without healthcare and here in Canada there are wait times and every province is different but the patient doesn't have to go broke getting care. I've heard more Americans say on radio talk shows they rather have to wait then cough up $30,000.00 themselves, so which would any of you rather do? My spouse has had to deal with cancer since 2001 and we have never had to wait more than 2 weeks and only because of the number of people being treated but today he's clear and I have no problem with Ontario health system and the Libs have improved it since Harris.

Topaz all the bickering aside, you don't know how happy I am that you and your spouse were treated much better by our system then our family.

I love surivour stories.

[Werecar]

Your darn right I have evidence, I have posted it all before the doctor that my mother was seeing recommended that the treatement she needed was south of the boarder, we applied to alberta health to al least have a portion of it covered, they denigned us. How many others has this happened to I don't know, but as far as I am concerned it should happen to one. If our health care was so great we would have no waiting lists, our elderly would get the hip replacements and other quality of life services that see to be deigned if you do not fit the criteria, we have buercrats decided what kind and level of service you will get, and its pathetic. Our citizens should get the best treatment everytime, not the only one the local/regional hospital provides.

1) You have no evidence. What you have is a single example that can easily be countered with lots more examples of how well it works. For evidence I point you to the stats concerning such things as infant mortality, life expectancy, cancer survival rates, etc. That points to lots and lots of success stories.

2) Denigned is should be denied. In addition blame your PC government and Stelmach. Here in Ontario, the cradle of socialism it works fine.

3) "If our health care was so great we would have no waiting lists, our elderly would get the hip replacements and other quality of life services that see to be denied if you do not fit the criteria"

Don't be so naive. No system is perfect and if you think the US system is then you need to lay off the crack pipe dude. How many in the US go without because they have no insurance or because their insurance carrier denied their claim? Obviously you have no knowledge whatsoever on this point.

4) "we have buercrats decided what kind and level of service you will get, and its pathetic.". Wrong. Under our system only doctors determine what healthcare we get. In the US system you need insurance approval or else its unaffordable and thats just those with insurance.

5) "Our citizens should get the best treatment everytime, not the only one the local/regional hospital provides."

Ignorance is bliss. Explain the droves of Americans going south for affordable healthcare then.

You show me the stat the 100% of people get the right treatment each and every time and all patients have had all avenues open to them and have not had to spend a single day on a waiting list, and I might change my mind. So far all I have seen from you is stats and reports of doctors comming and going from someone who has a vested inrest in the system.

I see. I'm biased because I work in our system (and btw participate in workshops to improve it) but

you will post US medical support for their system as proof eh?

Show me that 100% of Americans get the right treatment each and every time. Hell, show me 100% of insured Americans getting the right treatment each and every time.

BTW, the fact that per capita the US spends almost 3 times as much as we do yet lags behind us in key stats doesn't bother you eh? Did you ever consider that if we put as much money into our system as the US does you would get what you want?

Really, you are just embarassing yourself. All you have is a bitter experience for which you have clearly demonstrated you don't have proper details about nor any reasonable claim that under a US system you would have fared better.

[Smallc]

I love surivour stories.

There are far more good stories than bad stories.

[Alta4ever]

Ignorance is bliss. Explain the droves of Americans going south for affordable healthcare then.

Ignorance is bliss explain why droves of Canadians are leaving Canada for healthcare then?