Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

[Guest TrueMetis]

Thanks...but what makes them technically illegal? Can't be the CHA in general, as this is a provincial matter.

Has anyone ever been fined and/or imprisoned for giving a line jumper an MRI for private pay? ( I can't believe I just typed such a question.)

Federally they're Illegal but Provincially there legal in most cases (to the best of my knowledge) since healthcare is payed for Federally but administered Provincially. So it's a stupid federal law that makes it Illegal but everyone ignores it.

To my knowledge no one has ever been fined/imprisoned for receiving or giving private healthcare. Could you Imagine the court case if someone did?

[bush_cheney2004]

....To my knowledge no one has ever been fined/imprisoned for receiving or giving private healthcare. Could you Imagine the court case if someone did?

Precisely....such a case would be very embarassing for the government.

So I wonder why so many labor under this myth? I suspect it has more to do with the social and political stigma associated with line jumping the process with cash / insurance. It reminds me of the students who would wait in long lunch lines while I went off campus for fast food nirvana.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Precisely....such a case would be very embarassing for the government.

So I wonder why so many labor under this myth? I suspect it has more to do with the social and political stigma associated with line jumping the process with cash / insurance. It reminds me of the students who would wait in long lunch lines while I went off campus for fast food nirvana.

Things are changing and I expect that It won't be long before Private clinics become legal as they basically are now, as long as they don't try to get rid of the UHC I have no problem with it.

[benny]

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[tango]

Now you're being childish.....I will always have better options than you if you insist on waiting in the pain queue while singing "Oh Canada".

We have the same options as you have, like the mayo clinic, if we want to pay your price. Every year many Canadians do.

What we resent is Shona Holmes exaggerating her condition to smear our system, for partisan foreign political purposes.

[bush_cheney2004]

We have the same options as you have, like the mayo clinic, if we want to pay your price. Every year many Canadians do.

I know...see them onm the highway...LOL! But many don't want to pay....that's...UN-CANADIAN!

What we resent is Shona Holmes exaggerating her condition to smear our system, for partisan foreign political purposes.

Then lock her up as a CHA political prisoner.

[tango]

I know...see them onm the highway...LOL! But many don't want to pay....that's...UN-CANADIAN!

Then lock her up as a CHA political prisoner.

nah, we just smear her back

And let the law take its course.

The lawsuit will be interesting. It will have to address whether the delays in her treatment were excessive.

btw, did you hear about the woman who sued her doctor because she experienced pain in childbirth? (she lost) Some people's expectations are just unrealistic.

Edited August 8, 2009 by tango

[benny]

"Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC) will not be hosting any town hall events this August -- instead, he's making himself available to constituents for one-on-one meetings about health care reform -- and at least part of the reason is this: His offices have received threatening phone calls, including at least one direct threat against his life."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08...h-care-bill.php

[Wild Bill]

Federally they're Illegal but Provincially there legal in most cases (to the best of my knowledge) since healthcare is payed for Federally but administered Provincially. So it's a stupid federal law that makes it Illegal but everyone ignores it.

To my knowledge no one has ever been fined/imprisoned for receiving or giving private healthcare. Could you Imagine the court case if someone did?

Here it is!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v._Q...torney_General)

"Jacques Chaoulli is a doctor who provided home appointments to patients. He attempted to get a licence so he could offer his services as an independent private hospital, but was rejected due to provincial legislation prohibiting private health insurance.

Together, the two men sought a motion for a declaratory judgment to contest the prohibition."

This went to the Supreme court recently, which ruled AGAINST Quebec!

This is perhaps the most interesting:

http://www.righttohealthcare.org/Intl/Can.htm

"The Right to Health Care ** Public Perception or Legal Right? To begin, it is important to distinguish between a legal right to health care and the public perception of the existence of that right. In Volume Four, the Committee noted the existence of public opinion polls that reveal that Canadians, encouraged by politicians and the media, believe they have a constitutional right to receive health care even though no such right is explicitly contained in the Charter. Nor does any other Canadian law specifically confer that right, although government programs exist to provide publicly funded health services."

Or this one!

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/164/6/825

"WE ADDRESSED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER PRIVATE HEALTH CARE IS ILLEGAL in Canada by surveying the health insurance legislation of all 10 provinces. Our survey revealed multiple layers of regulation that seem to have as their primary objective preventing the public sector from subsidizing the private sector, as opposed to rendering privately funded practice illegal. Private insurance for medically necessary hospital and physician services is illegal in only 6 of the 10 provinces. Nonetheless, a significant private sector has not developed in any of the 4 provinces that do permit private insurance coverage. The absence of a significant private sector is probably best explained by the prohibitions on the subsidy of private practice by public plans, measures that prevent physicians from topping up their public sector incomes with private fees."

Seems to me that the point IS worthy of debate after all! The Supreme Court decision against Quebec is relatively recent. 6 out of 10 provinces outlaw private insurance and the other 4 technically allow it but have so many nitpicking rules that nobody even tries to do it.

It would appear that reality is in conflict with perception.

[Smallc]

Actually, from what I understand, all provinces now have to allow wait time insurance. Even Manitoba does. The problem, because of that, is no longer existent.

[Alta4ever]

Thanks...but what makes them technically illegal? Can't be the CHA in general, as this is a provincial matter.

Has anyone ever been fined and/or imprisoned for giving a line jumper an MRI for private pay? ( I can't believe I just typed such a question.)

I bet they would they have sent farmers to jail for selling grain directly to the americans, and by-passing the wheat board.

[benny]

Actually, from what I understand, all provinces now have to allow wait time insurance. Even Manitoba does. The problem, because of that, is no longer existent.

In Quebec, wait time has been dealt with in the aftermath of the Chaoulli case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaoulli_v._Q...torney_General)

Edited August 8, 2009 by benny

[bush_cheney2004]

This is perhaps the most interesting:

http://www.righttohealthcare.org/Intl/Can.htm

"The Right to Health Care ** Public Perception or Legal Right? To begin, it is important to distinguish between a legal right to health care and the public perception of the existence of that right. In Volume Four, the Committee noted the existence of public opinion polls that reveal that Canadians, encouraged by politicians and the media, believe they have a constitutional right to receive health care even though no such right is explicitly contained in the Charter. Nor does any other Canadian law specifically confer that right, although government programs exist to provide publicly funded health services."

I'm glad somebody is paying attention to reality. Health care is not a right...never has been, but somehow these people have delluded themselves for years to the contrary.

[benny]

I'm glad somebody is paying attention to reality. Health care is not a right...never has been, but somehow these people have delluded themselves for years to the contrary.

From the right to life, we go to the right to health care:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/chart...-canada#charter

[jbg]

I bet they would they have sent farmers to jail for selling grain directly to the americans, and by-passing the wheat board.

Trudeau would be horrified at your criticism.

[benny]

Trudeau would be horrified at your criticism.

Exports subsidy is a huge problem but not a health problem.

[Alta4ever]

Trudeau would be horrified at your criticism.

Trudeau would leave horrified if he ever had a conversation with me.

[benny]

Trudeau would leave horrified if he ever had a conversation with me.

He would have humiliated you.

[Alta4ever]

He would have humiliated you.

What like you do to yourself everytime you post on this forum, I am so sick of your inane posts that add absolutely nothing to the discussion.

[benny]

What like you do to yourself everytime you post on this forum, I am so sick of your inane posts that add absolutely nothing to the discussion.

You have no conversation!

[Alta4ever]

You have no conversation!

Keep it up benny this is last post of yours that will be responded to by me. I just found the ignore function in the controls.

For everyone else who didn't know that an ignore function exists on this board click on my controls, look at the links on the left hand side of the screen and its under the options heading the third link (manage ignored users) will take you to it.

[benny]

Keep it up benny this is last post of yours that will be responded to by me. I just found the ignore function in the controls.

For everyone else who didn't know that an ignore function exists on this board click on my controls, look at the links on the left hand side of the screen and its under the options heading the third link (manage ignored users) will take you to it.

Trying to ignore me is a torture you impose unto yourself.

[Argus]

Precisely....such a case would be very embarassing for the government.

So I wonder why so many labor under this myth? I suspect it has more to do with the social and political stigma associated with line jumping the process with cash / insurance. It reminds me of the students who would wait in long lunch lines while I went off campus for fast food nirvana.

Yes, as long as you have the money, you can go off campus. That means Canadians who have money can, if they choose, go off campus. Or, if they're not too desperate for lunch, they can wait here and get served free.

Americans who have money can go off campus.

Americans who don't have money - starve. And people like you could not possibly care less. It's a very Dickensian attitude.

[Argus]

I'm glad somebody is paying attention to reality. Health care is not a right...never has been, but somehow these people have delluded themselves for years to the contrary.

Technically speaking, food is not a "right" either. But we don't let people starve and die in the streets.

In any event, health care should not be about political ideology. It should be about what is the most effective, efficient means of delivering health care to a given population.

Clearly, yours is neither efficient nor effective. Every international comparison consistently lists yours as by far the most expensive per capita and yet consistently ranks health care outcomes at or near the bottom of all those studied. You spend 16 times more on administration per capita than others nations in the OECD. Your doctors are fabulously rich. Your insurance companies and health care syndicates are wealthy. Your pharmaceutical industries prosper.

And your children die in the streets because you can't afford to treat them for basic illnesses.

And then you wave the flag and trumpet this as a great achievement for freedom and capitalism.

[benny]

Yes, as long as you have the money, you can go off campus. That means Canadians who have money can, if they choose, go off campus. Or, if they're not too desperate for lunch, they can wait here and get served free.

Americans who have money can go off campus.

Americans who don't have money - starve. And people like you could not possibly care less. It's a very Dickensian attitude.

Let's not be shy to used words like genocide or ethnic cleansing.

Edited August 8, 2009 by benny