jbg Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 The article below (really an editorial dressed up as news coverage) rails against limited translation services in the Court systems. The correct question is, why are we, in either country, enabling those that don't want to learn the language? Link to article, excerpts below: Study Finds Gaps in Aid for Non-English Speakers in State Civil Courts By JOHN SCHWARTZ Published: July 3, 2009 When Maythe Ramirez went to Superior Court in Contra Costa, Calif., for a child custody hearing in 2006, she wanted to tell the judge that her husband beat her and should not be allowed broad visitation rights. The court did not provide an interpreter for her, however, and Ms. Ramirez, who speaks almost no English, could not follow the arcane proceeding, much less participate. ******************* A new study of civil courts, from the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University law school, examined the 35 states with the highest immigrant populations and found that interpreter services are not always provided, or not provided well, and are not keeping up with growing demand. Of those states, 46 percent do not require that interpreters be provided in all cases, and 80 percent fail to guarantee that the courts will pay for the interpreter, as the Department of Justice’s view of the law requires. Thirty-seven percent of those states do not require that the interpreters have proper credentials. The result is a national patchwork of varying rights from state to state. “This must change,” the report concluded. “Federal law, principles of fundamental fairness, and our need for equal access to the justice system all demand it.” ******************* The states, however, face daunting costs and challenges to bring language aid to their courts. In New York, where state law requires interpreters to be offered in all civil and criminal cases, costs have been rising, from nearly $18 million in the 2004-5 fiscal year to more than $24 million in the 2008-9 fiscal year, with 282,000 hours of interpretation in nearly 90 languages, including Kurdish, Wolof and Cajun French. ******************* While "Wolof" is a new language on me, this article, until the very end, in a part buried on a continuation page, finally asks the right question, even though I do not agree with the speaker's desire to limit immigration: Such figures gall those who oppose permissive immigration policies. “We accommodate for language too much, and that sends a very clear message that it’s O.K. not to learn English,” said Mark Krikorian, the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, a nonprofit group that seeks to limit immigration. “This is an inevitable cost of massive immigration that is never taken into account when making policy.” ******************* Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Jerry J. Fortin Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Excellent damned question. Here we have a two language issue, but it applies with all the other languages! Edited July 13, 2009 by Charles Anthony deleted recopied Opening Post Quote
Machjo Posted July 12, 2009 Report Posted July 12, 2009 This is not unique to Canada and the US. I'd heard of many court cases in China between international businessmen owing to misunderstandings of the English-language contract. And then there's no guarantee that the interpretors in the Chinese courts know English well either. It's a mess the world over. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Sabre Rider Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) I tried, but Haida Gwaii is a bitch to learn. Funny how we now demand that new immigrants to Canada or the US learn our language, but when we first came here we didn't make much of an effort to learn the languages of the First Nations People who were already here. Indeed, we rather kidnap their kids and place them in Residence Schools run by various "good Christian" orders and forced them to learn ours along with the joys of rape and buggery. To be honest, I am more then a little surprised that there are those here, usually on the radical right conservative Christian wing, haven't openly advocated we do the same to the kids of immigrants from Asia and other "brown" nations. Edited July 13, 2009 by Sabre Rider Quote
Machjo Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 I tried, but Haida Gwaii is a bitch to learn.Funny how we now demand that new immigrants to Canada or the US learn our language, but when we first came here we didn't make much of an effort to learn the languages of the First Nations People who were already here. Indeed, we rather kidnap their kids and place them in Residence Schools run by various "good Christian" orders and forced them to learn ours along with the joys of rape and buggery. To be honest, I am more then a little surprised that there are those here, usually on the radical right conservative Christian wing, haven't openly advocated we do the same to the kids of immigrants from Asia and other "brown" nations. I fully agree to the hypocricy of having stormed onto the continent musket in hand and forcing the locals to learn our languages, and now telling immigrants to learn our language too. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 I fully agree to the hypocricy of having stormed onto the continent musket in hand and forcing the locals to learn our languages, and now telling immigrants to learn our language too. Hmmm....so do you think that Inca or Aztec learned the language of conquered nations / bands? Y'know...before sacrificing them to their gods? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Machjo Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 Hmmm....so do you think that Inca or Aztec learned the language of conquered nations / bands? Y'know...before sacrificing them to their gods? So if our neighbour commits a wrong, that excuses us to do likewise? Should we start sacrificing people too then? Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Sabre Rider Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 So if our neighbour commits a wrong, that excuses us to do likewise? Should we start sacrificing people too then? The Bush/Cheney's of the world do so on a daily basis, upon the alter of Greed and Profit Above All Else. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 So if our neighbour commits a wrong, that excuses us to do likewise? Should we start sacrificing people too then? Who says it is "wrong" ? ...I was just working with the very flawed comparison vis-a-vis "immigrants with muskets". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 The Bush/Cheney's of the world do so on a daily basis, upon the alter of Greed and Profit Above All Else. No...ceremonial sacrifices are for special events and astronomical transitions. We just do routine abortions on a daily basis. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 AFAIK, the US has no official language, so what is 'the language'? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 AFAIK, the US has no official language, so what is 'the language'? Jacksons and Benjamins. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 Excellent damned question. Here we have a two language issue, but it applies with all the other languages! An argument could be made that French speakers who do not learn to speak either Canadian or English are limiting themselves to an economically declining area of the country and lowering their opportunities. That should not be rewarded with more aid. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Smallc Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Yes, lets kill French off. Canadians of all stripes should endeavor to learn both languages (too bad we don''t). We are a country of those two languages after all. Edited July 13, 2009 by Smallc Quote
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Indeed, we rather kidnap their kids and place them in Residence Schools run by various "good Christian" orders and forced them to learn ours along with the joys of rape and buggery.Maybe, except for learning to be rape victims, they could have used the program to their beneift and focused on learning how to make a living in the modern world rather than choosing which octane to sniff. Granted, there is no excuse for rape and buggery. Edited July 13, 2009 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 Hmmm....so do you think that Inca or Aztec learned the language of conquered nations / bands? Y'know...before sacrificing them to their gods? That one cracked me up. Good point. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Smallc Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 You're certainly a fine example of a left winger, aren't you? Quote
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 The Bush/Cheney's of the world do so on a daily basis, upon the alter of Greed and Profit Above All Else. You mean the "greed and profits" that directly or indirectly provides your sustenance? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 AFAIK, the US has no official language, so what is 'the language'? English is the working language. But I think you knew that. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 Yes, lets kill French off. Canadians of all stripes should endeavor to learn both languages (too bad we don''t). We are a country of those two languages after all. No, you are a country where Canadian and English are spoken in most of the country, and French, Inukitat and other languages are spoken in certain areas. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Smallc Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 French is still spoken by a majority in one province, and large percentage in another, a not insignificant percentage in another, and small percentages in most of the rest of the country. English is the primary language in most places (we don't speak American), but French is part of what this Country is. Quote
jbg Posted July 13, 2009 Author Report Posted July 13, 2009 You're certainly a fine example of a left winger, aren't you? And you're a great example of a "small c" conservative? I happen to be an avid follower of Noam Chomsky, Sheila Copp, Carolyn Parrish and Alfonse Gaglione. Leftists all. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
tango Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Maybe, except for learning to be rape victims, they could have used the program to their beneift and focused on learning how to make a living in the modern world rather than choosing which octane to sniff. Granted, there is no excuse for rape and buggery. That's the most offensive comment I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot from white supremacists and garden variety racists. Edited July 13, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
tango Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 You're certainly a fine example of a left winger, aren't you? No kidding! jbg must be a barstool pseudo-lefty. They drink wine and wear berets and remark upon their own intellectual superiority, while dreaming of being dictators where everyone will be slaves to do their bidding. Are they really lefties? Is a drunk chicken in a beret really a goose? Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
GostHacked Posted July 13, 2009 Report Posted July 13, 2009 If you want to come to Canada, you must learn either English or French. I mean, if I was to move to Japan, or Germany, I should at least know the language to be able to communicate in Japanese or German. It is all about being prepared. If you don't know the language that is English when you move here, you should be required to take english reading/writing courses and tested on it after a year or so. At least make an effort. Proper communication is needed wherever you live, so learn the local language. English is fairly universal, so there is really no excuse. Also none of us speak Canadian, or American. But we do speak/spell Canadian English, and American English. But it is still english. Quote
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