False information leads to PM's attack on Ignatieff

[tango]

Would Ignatieff, Layton, Duceppes or May be any better?

I think a lot of Canadians would vote for Gilles Duceppe if they could,

if only in protest to the indistinguishable milquetoast of the rest of them.

[enviralment]

The cons, for all their unity and tight screws have been hindered by inept people. Bernier, Raitt, Various aids, this party is sinking. Its much different when your fighting against an official opposition that has been in shambles, Martin and Dion were both horrible excuses for party leader. But now that the Libs are starting to rejoin and solidify we are seeing a Tory party that suddenly appears to be the worse of two evils.

[lily]

The cons, for all their unity and tight screws have been hindered by inept people. Bernier, Raitt, Various aids, this party is sinking. Its much different when your fighting against an official opposition that has been in shambles, Martin and Dion were both horrible excuses for party leader. But now that the Libs are starting to rejoin and solidify we are seeing a Tory party that suddenly appears to be the worse of two evils.

Is unity genuine when it needs tight screws? IMO, that's been the biggest problem the CPC has had.

[myata]

I think a lot of Canadians would vote for Gilles Duceppe if they could,

if only in protest to the indistinguishable milquetoast of the rest of them.

Gosh, what an idea! I'd certainly do that come next election (if I have to throw away that vote - let it be with a bang!). People! Let's write a collective letter to Gilles to let us all participate democratically to a full extent possible (i.e vote BQ in the rest of Canada). We may even elect some Bloque representatives, in E.Ontario, Manitoba, or Vancouver!

Edited July 13, 2009 by myata

[capricorn]

I think a lot of Canadians would vote for Gilles Duceppe if they could,

if only in protest to the indistinguishable milquetoast of the rest of them.

Those Canadians who could vote for the Bloc would do so if it precipitated Quebec's separation. I'm one of them.

[jdobbin]

Those Canadians who could vote for the Bloc would do so if it precipitated Quebec's separation. I'm one of them.

And this is the anti-Quebec feeling from Tory supporters that keeps hurting the party in Quebec.

[Machjo]

Then I guess it would shock you to know that Ignatieff took potshots at conservatives and the PM in a recent speech delivered in the UK.

I didn't know that, but thanks for the info. Then Ignatieff has been clever enough to not have let me get wind of it so far. I'll keep an eye peeled.

[Machjo]

Oh the staffer will pay.

I think a Prime Minister should be careful before disseminating inappropriate partisan information when he's representing Canada, not the CPC.

Whether the information is accurate or not is irrelevant.

That's the problem with Harper; he doesn't know how to separate the two in his head. in his mind, he's always representing the CPC.

[Machjo]

Is unity genuine when it needs tight screws? IMO, that's been the biggest problem the CPC has had.

The constituents of Calgary West should count themselves lucky to have so many MPs representing their riding. Can't say the same for most other Conservative constituencies.

[capricorn]

And this is the anti-Quebec feeling from Tory supporters that keeps hurting the party in Quebec.

In my case, that was also my sentiment when I used to vote for the Liberal Party. There are plenty of non-Conservative supporters who would like an amicable divorce from La Belle Province.

This is OT, but for a long time, I have felt that this country is too vast, underpopulated and economically disparate to be governed properly by a central government. IMO, federal governments have failed to reconcile the ideological, linguistic, political and economic disparities of the various regions. This will not change.

[capricorn]

I didn't know that, but thanks for the info. Then Ignatieff has been clever enough to not have let me get wind of it so far. I'll keep an eye peeled.

The complete speech is posted on the Liberal Party website.

[ToadBrother]

In my case, that was also my sentiment when I used to vote for the Liberal Party. There are plenty of non-Conservative supporters who would like an amicable divorce from La Belle Province.

I honestly don't hear too many NDPers and Liberals going around saying this sort of thing. I think most of the anti-Quebec sentiment comes from the Reform rump of the Conservative Party.

This is OT, but for a long time, I have felt that this country is too vast, underpopulated and economically disparate to be governed properly by a central government. IMO, federal governments have failed to reconcile the ideological, linguistic, political and economic disparities of the various regions. This will not change.

Before you spout this kind of nonsense, look at Belgium. Size is meaningless where there are essential ethnic disputes. Believe me, for all our troubles (including the FLQ crisis), we've never had what Belgium has gone through over the last few years. Canada is the epitome of unity compared to the divide between the Flemish and the Walloons.

[capricorn]

Before you spout this kind of nonsense,

When I disagree with someone's opinion or views, I don't qualify them as nonsense. I value everyone's opinions and sometimes learn something from them.

Governability depends on the various players in the political arena agreeing to certain ground rules: respect for the law, respect for democracy, respect for each other, and for the broader national interest. All of these are now in various stages of decay and neglect.

The natives who are now openly defying the law across much of southern Ontario, would not feel quite such ease in doing so had they not watched others before them advertise their contempt for the rule of law, and get away with it. Some native reserves, notably in Ontario and Quebec, have long been no-go zones, where police dare not intrude. Nor is this phenomenon restricted to natives. What was -- is? -- the consensus among the Quebec political class, but that the province could separate unilaterally, i.e. outside the bounds of law or constitutionality?

Likewise, the senators who were openly threatening to defeat the federal budget were perhaps pushing the limits of what is democratically tolerable, even in this country -- though no more so than they were in shelving government legislation to restrict their term of office to eight years. If they did not quite dare to press ahead with the first, moreover, they have plainly got away with the second. And with each new act of defiance, each new encroachment upon the principle that the power to legislate is reserved to those the people have elected for the purpose, they are emboldened to further outrages.

With contempt for the law, and contempt for democracy, being in such wide circulation, it was perhaps inevitable that our political leaders should come to evince such contempt for each other. If, after all, we cannot even agree to obey the law, or to accept the will of the people, why should we expect that other broad principles of democratic government, though they command universal assent in other countries, would prove any less controversial? Principles, for example, such as the notion that we are all part of the same self-governing body of citizens, the same polity -- the same, you know, nation.

http://andrewcoyne.com/columns/2007/06/is-...-governable.php

[Smallc]

Oh lookie, an article by someone who supported the Reform Party. Seriously, the poll by the Globe shows that you are in the minority in wanting Quebec to go. Most Quebecers don't even agree with you. Statements like this are why I want the Conservative party to stay away from a majority. The Liberals and NDP don't have a contempt for Quebec (mostly unjustified) that some in the Conservative party do.

To put it bluntly, you can never claim to be a patriot of of this country with an attitude like that.

[capricorn]

Oh lookie, an article by someone who supported the Reform Party.

I didn't know that. I suppose that undervalues his opinion, eh?

Seriously, the poll by the Globe shows that you are in the minority in wanting Quebec to go.

So what. You think I should be filled with shame and shut up?

Most Quebecers don't even agree with you.

I'm done caring what Quebecers think.

Statements like this are why I want the Conservative party to stay away from a majority.

Why don't you write an attack ad for the Liberals to warn Canadians that if the Conservatives had a majority, they would force Quebec to separate? You could draw a map with a bold blue line around the province, a coffin watermarked over the map of Quebec, or maybe crossbones would be more effective.

The Liberals and NDP don't have a contempt for Quebec (mostly unjustified) that some in the Conservative party do.

Drivel.

To put it bluntly, you can never claim to be a patriot of of this country with an attitude like that.

UNITY! UNITY! The most current rallying cry of the Liberals, led by that most patriotic of Canadians, Michael Ignatieff who said:

"The battle between liberal and conservatives in our country is therefore a battle over the role of government in maintaining the unity of the country."

http://www.liberal.ca/en/michael-ignatieff...-in-tough-times

[Smallc]

It seems that Ignatieff may be right. This is about unity. It's also a about a belief by some that others are un Canadian because they don't fit someone else's cutout. To those I say, too bad.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Smallc

[capricorn]

It seems that Ignatieff may be right. This is about unity.

I said early on that Ignatieff would play the unity card at every turn. The reason for this is that the Liberals don't have a policy platform on substantive issues to differentiate themselves from the Conservatives. So now the message is that the Conservatives are divisive and the Liberals are uniters. It's all a game.

[Smallc]

Not if too many Conservatives feel the same as you it isn't. Really, it's a huge issue. It's about the future of this country. Ignatieff should latch on to it.

[capricorn]

Ignatieff should latch on to it.

Don't worry, he will. He's got nothing else.

[Smallc]

Not that he's told you anyway.

[punked]

Not that he's told you anyway.

He makes a real point on policy. Plus I mean the NDP, and Bloc are going to go after the Liberals hard this time I think becuase they are taking a real step the right making it easy for the progressive parties to attack them and not look bad. Try playing the "we will unit parliament" card while everyone else at the table is saying "No you wont we don't like you." Come up with some serious policy or I think it wont as good when the election actually comes down. The Liberals need a new red book.

[Smallc]

Red books aren't usually released until campaigns happen, nor should they be. As for the NDP, until they get rid of Jack, they might as well sit things out. He's taking them nowhere but down.

[punked]

Red books aren't usually released until campaigns happen, nor should they be. As for the NDP, until they get rid of Jack, they might as well sit things out. He's taking them nowhere but down.

He has a base of 20 seats even if he sits it out although winning the second largest seat count for the party history isn't something I am willing to turn my back on. New leaders are what get the NDP in trouble. They have to build the base back from there the times in political history the NDP has gotten in trouble was picking a new leader right before an election. If the leader has 3 years to build themselves up we are usually fine but don't shake your fist at the devil you know. We will get some Liberal bleed this election again as people get to know Iggy.

I mean the guy stopped a vote for the Third reading of an NDP EI reform bill becuase he made a deal with Harper for a "Blue Ribbon thingy," this is the kind of flip flopping that will come out on Iggy. I think he will do well and steal some NDP seats but we will still in 20-30 with Jack.

Policy is something you should come out with at some point in time as the opposition, it is not the oppositions job to oppose, it is their job to give us alternatives. The same Old Cats with nothing new to offer never have done great in elections. You need to frame some question besides "Us or them?" EI isn't the Liberals issue and come Fall they will drop it fast and kill all NDP legislation on it as they have done for 15 straight years now. But I am glade Iggy raised the issue so we can hammer him on it in the election.

"How many times have you voted against EI reform? Ohhhh I see the record here as a part n the last 15 years 30 times, as a MP you voted against 4 separate bills and sat out 3 more. This is your record I can not make this stuff up." I can't wait for the debates of the Longest sitting Liberal members.

[Smallc]

it is not the oppositions job to oppose,

I know what you;re getting at, but seriously...lol.

I don't really like any of the choices, but I can't vote Conservative or NDP because I don't like Harper or Layton. Ignatieff will have a policy. The Liberals always do. I already know that he's who I'll vote for and it will take a big flop to change that.

[punked]

Ignatieff will have a policy. The Liberals always do.

Haven't even seen a hit of it. Accept that EI stuff but they clearly don't mean what they say on that front, and we both know it.