Amnesty details Gaza 'war crimes'

[DogOnPorch]

In dub land buildings are protected by International law...

Inform the Germans they have a case in regards to WW2. This whole Dresden thing could net them a late-win.

[dub]

In dub land buildings are protected by International law...

in dancer world, international law, which states indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian buildings is illegal, doesn't apply to israel.

lol?

[M.Dancer]

in dancer world, international law, which states indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian buildings is illegal, doesn't apply to israel.

lol?

What indiscriminate attacks?

[dub]

What indiscriminate attacks?

lol?

Edited July 17, 2009 by dub

[DogOnPorch]

What indiscriminate attacks?

Any Israeli attack = indiscriminate. Hamas attack = freedom fighter pushed too far by evil Joooooos.

[Bonam]

F-16 combat aircraft drop their bombs from a high altitude and cannot directly see their

targets. Their targets are either pre-selected and may not be monitored at the time of the

attack, or may be observed by other surveillance mechanisms, usually by drones, which feed

the coordinates of the targets and other information to the F-16s in real time. In either case,

the munitions used are high-precision bombs of up to one ton, capable of carrying out

pinpoint strikes.

In other words, mistakes can happen.

During Operation “Cast Lead” some people were telephoned by the Israeli army and told to

leave their homes because they were going to be bombed after a few minutes.

Which is an example of how far Israel goes to try to reduce civilian casualties. No doubt they often fail to kill the militants they are targetting because they are told about the phone calls and warning by the fleeing civilians. In fact I think Israel goes way too far here, hampering the effectiveness of its own military operations. Any legitimate target should be attacked without warning, to maximize the probability of the targeted militants or supplies still being there.

However, members of at least six families whose relatives were killed when their homes were bombed told Amnesty International that they had not received any prior warnings.

Allegations which have not been and can not be verified in any way. Palestinians have no love of Israel, and no doubt many would be willing to make such a statement whether or not it was true. Do you disagree?

In all of these cases the houses were located in built-up areas which the residents presumed would be safer than

elsewhere in Gaza.

A foolish assumption, given Hamas well known habit of using built up areas to store weapons and to launch rockets from.

In none of the cases is there any evidence to suggest that the houses or

their inhabitants could have been considered military targets.

Evidence. A good word. What evidence is presented of any of the allegations here? None, just the word of people who hate Israel.

However, even if the Israeli army’s allegations were accurate, this

would not have relieved the army of its obligation to take precautions against harming

civilians, including giving them effective warning.

The Israeli army has no such obligation. What it does have an obligation to do, during a military operation, is to eradicate Hamas militants and their facilities. Making sure that nearby residents are properly informed of the fact that a mosque near their house is being used as a meeting place for militants and thus could be a target would be the duty of the legitimate government of Gaza, if it had one rather than a bunch of terrorist madmen.

When planning to target the mosque the army would have been aware that a strike on such a

scale was virtually guaranteed to destroy the small house adjacent to it. The army could have

warned the Ba’alusha family to leave their home.

Could have perhaps, but did not have to. As the rest of the quotation plainly attests, Israel already goes above and beyond when it comes to precautions to minimize civilian casualties among the Palestinians. What other nation phones the people they are about to blow up in advance, so they can leave?

[KrustyKidd]

- when is the last time there were 'terrorist attacks' that came from the west bank?

- how do settlements stop terror?

- how is increasing the settlements an answer to peace?

you've drawn one of your few cards in the face of logic. this time, you are trying to justify illegal actions by israel by using self-defense and terror.

no one buys these empty rhetoric.

I didn't know that there was two Palestinian peoples Dub. What is the country full of Palestinians on the West bank called themselves and what is their capital? Have they their own currency and when was their independence declared?

Far as I knew, there was only one nation of Palestine and it has still not stopped terrorist attacks.

i rather not talk about gandhi with you. you don't deserve it. especially not after saying that support for gandhi's ideology is like supporting bush's war on iraq.

i don't want to debate your altered universe.

Yes, that would mean cracking a book or two in order to determine if the thousands of deaths he deliberately caused by sending innocent people into harms way to propagate his political vision were worth it. Not to mention the millions of displaced persons his actions caused. As I told you, there is a reason why he never won the Nobel Peace Prize. And you have no clue why.

Since you didn't bother to bone up on the subject matter, I concur, I don't want to debate in your echo chamber.

[Bonam]

I didn't know that there was two Palestinian peoples Dub. What is the country full of Palestinians on the West bank called themselves and what is their capital? Have they their own currency and when was their independence declared?

Clearly there are two Palestinian states. They are united for purposes of victimhood, but separate entities when it is convenient for propaganda purposes. And of course the capital of the great nation of Fatahstan is a united Jerusalem, and the capital of the great nation of Hamastan is a renamed Tel Aviv, right after they implement their "solution" to the Jewish "problem", as described in their charter.

[Sulaco]

Gandhi Ji Righteous?

I suppose even righteous people could oppose the second world war and go to bed with his nieces..(to test his resistence to temptation)

Not to mention the righteous man said some terrible things about Negroes.

[KrustyKidd]

Not to mention the righteous man said some terrible things about Negroes.

Least he only killed his own.

[dub]

In other words, mistakes can happen.

a mistake is a mistake. but when you see these things repeating and you see the number of civilians killed, civilians injured and civilian buildings destroyed, then it's understandable why it's called a war crime.

these incidents go beyond F16's dropping bombs. there are also much evidence of soldiers shooting civilains in numerous occasions. proof that has been verified by israeli soldiers. there are also proof of israeli soldiers using civilians as human shields, again, verified by israeli soldiers.

Which is an example of how far Israel goes to try to reduce civilian casualties

over 300 children were killed. not sure what you mean by reducing civilian casualties.

No doubt they often fail to kill the militants they are targetting because they are told about the phone calls and warning by the fleeing civilians. In fact I think Israel goes way too far here, hampering the effectiveness of its own military operations. Any legitimate target should be attacked without warning, to maximize the probability of the targeted militants or supplies still being there.

the phone calls did nothing to help the civilians as shown by AI. many received the same phone calls. no place was safe to go. even the UN buildings were hit by israel.

Allegations which have not been and can not be verified in any way. Palestinians have no love of Israel, and no doubt many would be willing to make such a statement whether or not it was true. Do you disagree?

they have been verified by the people who have been killed and the building that have been bombed. wouldn't you say that's a pretty good evidence? the statements given by the palestinians have all been verified, because the same allegations have been made by several people. the very same type of research and investigation was done for the holocaust victims.

unless of course, you mean, that these palestinians got together to make up a story and then demolished their homes and then faked the deaths of their families.

A foolish assumption, given Hamas well known habit of using built up areas to store weapons and to launch rockets from.

hamas was found guilty of committing war crimes by AI. however, in regards to using people as human shields, after their investigation, they verified that the only people using civilians as human shields was the IDF.

Evidence. A good word. What evidence is presented of any of the allegations here? None, just the word of people who hate Israel.

eh? read above.

people being killed either by explosions or by being crushed under their property is a pretty good evidence, don't you think?

The Israeli army has no such obligation. What it does have an obligation to do, during a military operation, is to eradicate Hamas militants and their facilities.

you're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

they are a signatory to the geneva conventions. they are obliged to follow the rule of the war.

even israel acknowledges this.

Making sure that nearby residents are properly informed of the fact that a mosque near their house is being used as a meeting place for militants and thus could be a target would be the duty of the legitimate government of Gaza, if it had one rather than a bunch of terrorist madmen.

it might be fun for you to make up rules of war, but i rather not waste my time in responding to them.

Could have perhaps, but did not have to. As the rest of the quotation plainly attests, Israel already goes above and beyond when it comes to precautions to minimize civilian casualties among the Palestinians. What other nation phones the people they are about to blow up in advance, so they can leave?

a nation that depends on PR to make itself look good.

but they obviously failed to protect the civilians as the numbers killed show and as it has been concluded by AI.

[bush_cheney2004]

....hamas was found guilty of committing war crimes by AI. however, in regards to using people as human shields, after their investigation, they verified that the only people using civilians as human shields was the IDF.

AI can't find any organization "guilty" of anything.

Edited July 20, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[KrustyKidd]

a mistake is a mistake. but when you see these things repeating and you see the number of civilians killed, civilians injured and civilian buildings destroyed, then it's understandable why it's called a war crime.

over 300 children were killed. not sure what you mean by reducing civilian casualties.

the phone calls did nothing to help the civilians as shown by AI. many received the same phone calls. no place was safe to go. even the UN buildings were hit by israel.

they have been verified by the people who have been killed and the building that have been bombed. wouldn't you say that's a pretty good evidence? the statements given by the palestinians have all been verified, because the same allegations have been made by several people. the very same type of research and investigation was done for the holocaust victims.

unless of course, you mean, that these palestinians got together to make up a story and then demolished their homes and then faked the deaths of their families.

hamas was found guilty of committing war crimes by AI. however, in regards to using people as human shields, after their investigation, they verified that the only people using civilians as human shields was the IDF.

eh? read above.

people being killed either by explosions or by being crushed under their property is a pretty good evidence, don't you think?

Holy! Thanks for verifying these terrible deeds Dub. I knew that Hamas had no compunction of using terrorism however, to deliberately incite a war and bring it purposefully onto their own people by staging attacks, stockpiling logistics in the middle of civilian populations is heinous beyond belief. A crime of gigantic proportions.

a nation that depends on PR to make itself look good

.

Yes, that would be Hamas. Who cares who gets killed, just get the propaganda out.

but they obviously failed to protect the civilians as the numbers killed show and as it has been concluded by AI.

The moment they fired into Israel from the midst of their own population they not only failed to protect their own people but incited retaliation. That only 900 of them were killed shows the restraint Israel used as those numbers, historically would have been triple or even ten times that at least.

[DogOnPorch]

[dub]

Holy! Thanks for verifying these terrible deeds Dub. I knew that Hamas had no compunction of using terrorism however, to deliberately incite a war and bring it purposefully onto their own people by staging attacks, stockpiling logistics in the middle of civilian populations is heinous beyond belief. A crime of gigantic proportions.

you failed to respond to pretty much all the points. because you're unable to counter reality.

i'll repeat:

In other words, mistakes can happen.

a mistake is a mistake. but when you see these things repeating and you see the number of civilians killed, civilians injured and civilian buildings destroyed, then it's understandable why it's called a war crime.

these incidents go beyond F16's dropping bombs. there are also much evidence of soldiers shooting civilains in numerous occasions. proof that has been verified by israeli soldiers. there are also proof of israeli soldiers using civilians as human shields, again, verified by israeli soldiers.

Which is an example of how far Israel goes to try to reduce civilian casualties

over 300 children were killed. not sure what you mean by reducing civilian casualties.

No doubt they often fail to kill the militants they are targetting because they are told about the phone calls and warning by the fleeing civilians. In fact I think Israel goes way too far here, hampering the effectiveness of its own military operations. Any legitimate target should be attacked without warning, to maximize the probability of the targeted militants or supplies still being there.

the phone calls did nothing to help the civilians as shown by AI. many received the same phone calls. no place was safe to go. even the UN buildings were hit by israel.

Allegations which have not been and can not be verified in any way. Palestinians have no love of Israel, and no doubt many would be willing to make such a statement whether or not it was true. Do you disagree?

they have been verified by the people who have been killed and the building that have been bombed. wouldn't you say that's a pretty good evidence? the statements given by the palestinians have all been verified, because the same allegations have been made by several people. the very same type of research and investigation was done for the holocaust victims.

unless of course, you mean, that these palestinians got together to make up a story and then demolished their homes and then faked the deaths of their families.

A foolish assumption, given Hamas well known habit of using built up areas to store weapons and to launch rockets from.

hamas was found guilty of committing war crimes by AI. however, in regards to using people as human shields, after their investigation, they verified that the only people using civilians as human shields was the IDF.

Evidence. A good word. What evidence is presented of any of the allegations here? None, just the word of people who hate Israel.

eh? read above.

people being killed either by explosions or by being crushed under their property is a pretty good evidence, don't you think?

The Israeli army has no such obligation. What it does have an obligation to do, during a military operation, is to eradicate Hamas militants and their facilities.

you're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

they are a signatory to the geneva conventions. they are obliged to follow the rule of the war.

even israel acknowledges this.

Making sure that nearby residents are properly informed of the fact that a mosque near their house is being used as a meeting place for militants and thus could be a target would be the duty of the legitimate government of Gaza, if it had one rather than a bunch of terrorist madmen.

it might be fun for you to make up rules of war, but i rather not waste my time in responding to them.

[dub]

1.1.2 AIR STRIKES TARGETING PEOPLE

Most strikes which targeted people were launched from drones, helicopters or F-16 aircraft.

Drones, as well as being used for surveillance, are often armed with high-precision missiles,

which in recent years have become the weapon of choice used by Israeli forces to assassinate

wanted Palestinian militants. Such attacks have shown repeatedly how these missiles can

strike their targets with extreme accuracy, including, for example, an individual travelling at

speed on a motorcycle or in a car.

Surveillance drones have exceptionally good optics, allowing those watching to see details

such as the type and colour of the items of clothing worn by those being observed, and what

kind of objects they are carrying. For example, on 4 February 2009 an Israeli drone operator

explained: “We identified a terrorist that looked like an Israeli soldier. Our camera enabled us

to see him very clearly. He was wearing a green parka jacket and he was walking around with

a huge radio that looked exactly like an army radio. We saw that he was not wearing an army

helmet, and he was ducking down with a weapon close to the wall, wearing black trousers. It

was very clear he wasn't a soldier”.29 According to the Israeli army, “pilots can divert missiles

already en route to their targets to avoid striking civilians”.30 The questions arising from the

cases detailed in this report and many others are why so many children and other individuals

who were visibly civilians were targeted in the first place and why these missiles were not

diverted when it became clear that they were about to strike children and other civilians.31

Many of those killed in air strikes were children playing near their homes or on their roofs.

Isra’ Qusay al-Habbash, 13, and her cousin Shadha ‘Abed al-Habbash, 10, were both killed

in a missile strike while playing on the roof of their home in the al-Tuffah neighbourhood of

Gaza City on 4 January 2009 at around 3.30pm. Shadha’s 14-year-old sister Jamila lost both

her legs and her 16-year-old cousin Muhammad lost one leg.

Mahmud ‘Ammar al-Habbash, aged 15, described what happened: “We were playing on the

roof terrace as usual and feeding the pigeons. I heard a friend calling me from the street and

went over to the wall to see him. My brother and cousins came over too and we stood there

chatting to the neighbour’s son. Suddenly I looked towards Jabal Raiss and saw a flash. I

yelled ‘A rocket! A rocket!’ and I fled and I felt as though I was flying in the air and then I

fell and felt as though the air was being sucked up and after that the air around me was full

of dust and smoke so I couldn’t see anything. I rushed downstairs and heard my sister

screaming in a room. She was dragging my brother Mohammed, who had fallen from the roof

and was hanging on a window, so I helped her get him in. His injuries were terrible and his

leg was cut off.”

Shadha’s and Jamila’s father told Amnesty International: “When I heard the noise of an

explosion I knew it was on the roof and I went quickly to my brother’s house. I heard

screaming and I found my nephew Mahmud and his sister pulling Mohammed, who had

fallen off the roof. I asked about the other children and they said they were on the roof. I

hurried up to the roof and I found my daughter and my brother’s daughter – they had been

blown up, their bodies were in pieces. The other children were all wounded and had limbs

amputated. We called an ambulance, which took them to hospital: my daughter, my brother’s

daughter, and my daughter Jamila, both of whose legs were cut off, and Mohammed, whose

leg was cut off – both of them are now in hospital in Saudi Arabia. What fault did the

children commit? Why did they target such joy and innocence?”

[M.Dancer]

Tough like for them.

The questions arising from the

cases detailed in this report and many others are why so many children and other individuals

who were visibly civilians were targeted in the first place and why these missiles were not

diverted when it became clear that they were about to strike children and other civilians

It's quotes like this that force me to conclude AI are either idiots or part of the propaganda wing of Hamas. This stuff is clearly manufactured for the useful idiot brigade and even a half witted gerbil could drive a truck threw the holes in this piece of fluff.

[dub]

Tough like for them.

yep.

it's all made up.

dancer has taken a new job.

[KrustyKidd]

you failed to respond to pretty much all the points. because you're unable to counter reality.

i'll repeat:

I believe i did. It is you who did not respond to all the points so I will repeat;

a mistake is a mistake. but when you see these things repeating and you see the number of civilians killed, civilians injured and civilian buildings destroyed, then it's understandable why it's called a war crime.

over 300 children were killed. not sure what you mean by reducing civilian casualties.

the phone calls did nothing to help the civilians as shown by AI. many received the same phone calls. no place was safe to go. even the UN buildings were hit by israel.

they have been verified by the people who have been killed and the building that have been bombed. wouldn't you say that's a pretty good evidence? the statements given by the palestinians have all been verified, because the same allegations have been made by several people. the very same type of research and investigation was done for the holocaust victims.

unless of course, you mean, that these palestinians got together to make up a story and then demolished their homes and then faked the deaths of their families.

hamas was found guilty of committing war crimes by AI. however, in regards to using people as human shields, after their investigation, they verified that the only people using civilians as human shields was the IDF.

eh? read above.

people being killed either by explosions or by being crushed under their property is a pretty good evidence, don't you think?

Holy! Thanks for verifying these terrible deeds Dub. I knew that Hamas had no compunction of using terrorism however, to deliberately incite a war and bring it purposefully onto their own people by staging attacks, stockpiling logistics in the middle of civilian populations is heinous beyond belief. A crime of gigantic proportions.

a nation that depends on PR to make itself look good

.

Yes, that would be Hamas. Who cares who gets killed, just get the propaganda out.

but they obviously failed to protect the civilians as the numbers killed show and as it has been concluded by AI.

The moment they fired into Israel from the midst of their own population they not only failed to protect their own people but incited retaliation. That only 900 of them were killed shows the restraint Israel used as those numbers, historically would have been triple or even ten times that at least.

a mistake is a mistake. but when you see these things repeating and you see the number of civilians killed, civilians injured and civilian buildings destroyed, then it's understandable why it's called a war crime.

Yes, Hamas deliberately placed their people in danger when they used their cities and neighborhoods as a war zone with which to stage attacks on Israeli citizens.

these incidents go beyond F16's dropping bombs. there are also much evidence of soldiers shooting civilains in numerous occasions. proof that has been verified by israeli soldiers. there are also proof of israeli soldiers using civilians as human shields, again, verified by israeli soldiers.

Such is the way of war in that area unfortunately. It seems the Israelis learned a thing or two from Hamas.

over 300 children were killed. not sure what you mean by reducing civilian casualties.

Four hundred Hamas militants hiding amongst their human shields and only three hundred children were killed? Remarkable restraint by israel.

the phone calls did nothing to help the civilians as shown by AI. many received the same phone calls. no place was safe to go. even the UN buildings were hit by israel.

No place was safe? You mean that simultaneously all of Gaza was destroyed at the same moment with nopt one building left standing? Amazing.

Why would Hamas bring this misery onto their people?

they have been verified by the people who have been killed and the building that have been bombed. wouldn't you say that's a pretty good evidence? the statements given by the palestinians have all been verified, because the same allegations have been made by several people. the very same type of research and investigation was done for the holocaust victims.

Israel had good reason to go in to stop the rockets fired by Hamas at their civilians. What pray tell was the reason Hamas placed their entire population at risk by using the people, the cities and the entire society as a shild to hide their weapons, activities and militants in order to attack Israel's civilians?

unless of course, you mean, that these palestinians got together to make up a story and then demolished their homes and then faked the deaths of their families.

I figure the deaths were real. Hamas has no compunction about killing their own in order to advance their propaganda.

hamas was found guilty of committing war crimes by AI. however, in regards to using people as human shields, after their investigation, they verified that the only people using civilians as human shields was the IDF.

They used the entire population as a human shield. Otherwise, Israel never would to have gone into populated areas to find them.

they are a signatory to the geneva conventions. they are obliged to follow the rule of the war.

even israel acknowledges this.

According to international law, high-value targets protected by civilian human shields can still be attacked so long as every effort is made to minimize civilian deaths. Article 51 of the 1977 amendment to the 1949 Geneva Convention; "The presence of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not ;e used to render certain areas (i.e.: civilian objects) immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield these military objects from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations."

Hamas does not, nor has it ever acted in accordance with the Geneva Conventions and, as a matter of military strategy, consciously targets civilians in Israel and uses its own civilian population as human shields to protect its military assets. Indeed, its goal is to maximize the number of deaths and injuries among vulnerable civilians for propaganda purposes. Its foot soldiers do not wear military uniforms, deliberately hide amongst civilian populations, and use ambulances, mosques, schools, private homes, playgrounds, the Islamic University of Gaza, and UN buildings not as “civilian objects” but as military installations (not to mention using women pretending to be sick or pregnant, and even children as carriers of lethal explosives) knowing that none of their leaders will ever be charged with war crimes. That right, it seems, is reserved only for Israel.

it might be fun for you to make up rules of war, but i rather not waste my time in responding to them.

You have Hamas, who's whole entire battle plan is to begin by not even attempting to follow any vague idea of Geneva conventions (I suppose it is a good thing they never signed) and continue to break every part of every article of it. Then, you have Israel who has to go in, attempt to separate these vermin from the population who, for the most part, are aiding them in their mission, and fight a war. The remarkable restrait is proven by the miraculously low casualty figures. Imagine how low they could have been had not Hamas used their entire population and society as a human shield to enact their acts of terrorism in order to gain the civilian deaths of their own people to use for propaganda.

[dub]

I believe i did. It is you who did not respond to all the points so I will repeat;

Holy! Thanks for verifying these terrible deeds Dub. I knew that Hamas had no compunction of using terrorism however, to deliberately incite a war and bring it purposefully onto their own people by staging attacks, stockpiling logistics in the middle of civilian populations is heinous beyond belief. A crime of gigantic proportions.

.

Yes, that would be Hamas. Who cares who gets killed, just get the propaganda out.

The moment they fired into Israel from the midst of their own population they not only failed to protect their own people but incited retaliation. That only 900 of them were killed shows the restraint Israel used as those numbers, historically would have been triple or even ten times that at least.

Yes, Hamas deliberately placed their people in danger when they used their cities and neighborhoods as a war zone with which to stage attacks on Israeli citizens.

Such is the way of war in that area unfortunately. It seems the Israelis learned a thing or two from Hamas.

nice one. justifying the IDF use of human shield?

Four hundred Hamas militants hiding amongst their human shields and only three hundred children were killed? Remarkable restraint by israel.

No place was safe? You mean that simultaneously all of Gaza was destroyed at the same moment with nopt one building left standing? Amazing.

Why would Hamas bring this misery onto their people?

Israel had good reason to go in to stop the rockets fired by Hamas at their civilians. What pray tell was the reason Hamas placed their entire population at risk by using the people, the cities and the entire society as a shild to hide their weapons, activities and militants in order to attack Israel's civilians?

I figure the deaths were real. Hamas has no compunction about killing their own in order to advance their propaganda.

They used the entire population as a human shield. Otherwise, Israel never would to have gone into populated areas to find them.

According to international law, high-value targets protected by civilian human shields can still be attacked so long as every effort is made to minimize civilian deaths. Article 51 of the 1977 amendment to the 1949 Geneva Convention; "The presence of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not ;e used to render certain areas (i.e.: civilian objects) immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield these military objects from attacks or to shield, favor or impede military operations."

You have Hamas, who's whole entire battle plan is to begin by not even attempting to follow any vague idea of Geneva conventions (I suppose it is a good thing they never signed) and continue to break every part of every article of it. Then, you have Israel who has to go in, attempt to separate these vermin from the population who, for the most part, are aiding them in their mission, and fight a war. The remarkable restrait is proven by the miraculously low casualty figures. Imagine how low they could have been had not Hamas used their entire population and society as a human shield to enact their acts of terrorism in order to gain the civilian deaths of their own people to use for propaganda.

okay.

so all your responses have gone back to the same thing; blaming hamas for using the population as human shield, when such allegations have been proven to be false. to top off your biased approach to this conflict, you even had the nerve to apologize for israel using palestinian civilians as human shields?

israel killing 900+ civilians was really hamas' fault because hamas used its people as human shields.

not sure how a person can have an honest debate with apologists like you when you keep countering reality with lies.

here is what the investigation and report had to say about hamas using the civilians as human shield:

on 27 December 2008, the first day of Operation “Cast Lead”, the Israeli army

stated: “The Hamas government leaders and operatives, which activate terror from within

civilian population centers, are the sole bearers of responsibility for Israel’s military

response”. On 19 January 2009, at the end of Operation “Cast Lead”, it reiterated this selfjustifying

assertion: “In using Palestinian civilians as human shields, Hamas is therefore

responsible for the loss of civilian lives in the Gaza Strip”.15

In an interview conducted after the end of Operation “Cast Lead”, in response to the point

that hundreds of children were killed by Israeli forces in the Gaza military campaign, the then

Interior Minister, Meir Sheetrit, said they “had been held like hostages by the Hamas”. When

the journalist pointed out that this was not what the children’s families said, the Minister

dismissively replied: “And you believe them? They were using them as human shields”.16

...

4.2.2 ISRAELI ALLEGATIONS ABOUT USE OF “HUMAN SHIELDS”

The allegation that Hamas was using “human shields” was repeatedly made by Israeli

government and army officials and spokespersons. In response to any questions about attacks

by their own forces against Palestinian civilians or civilian objects or about the impact of

their forces’ operations on the civilian population of Gaza, Israeli officials invariably

responded that Hamas must be held responsible for any harm caused to civilians by Israeli

attacks. Specifically, they accused Hamas of intentionally using the civilian population as

“human shields” for their military activities by being based within towns and villages; storing

rockets and other weapons in populated areas; firing rockets from close proximity to civilian

buildings; and taking cover in civilian buildings after firing. Amnesty International asked the

Israeli authorities on several occasions to provide information to substantiate its allegations

about the use by Hamas of Gaza’s civilians, but has yet to receive a response.

maybe one day we'll get to the point where you'll stop using baseless allegations and start dealing with proven allegations to talk about this conflict.

[Bonam]

so all your responses have gone back to the same thing; blaming hamas for using the population as human shield, when such allegations have been proven to be false.

Proven false? Proven false by whom?

israel killing 900+ civilians was really hamas' fault because hamas used its people as human shields.

Perhaps you are being confused by the term "human shield". What is meant is not literally a Hamas fighter taking a civilian and holding them in front of themselves as a physical shield while exchanging fire with an Israeli soldier. Rather, what is meant is using civilian areas as part of their military operations.

Do you deny that Hamas launched rockets from, stored weapons in, and had its personnel present in, civilian areas of Gaza?

[KrustyKidd]

Proven false? Proven false by whom?

Perhaps you are being confused by the term "human shield". What is meant is not literally a Hamas fighter taking a civilian and holding them in front of themselves as a physical shield while exchanging fire with an Israeli soldier. Rather, what is meant is using civilian areas as part of their military operations.

Do you deny that Hamas launched rockets from, stored weapons in, and had its personnel present in, civilian areas of Gaza?

Why thak you Bonam. Dub seems to be stuck in his 'thought in a box' koolective echo chamber rationalizing today. You are correct, the Use by Hamas, of the entire civilian population and society as human shields is exactly what I meant.

The moment they fired into Israel from the midst of their own population they not only failed to protect their own people but incited retaliation. That only 900 of them were killed shows the restraint Israel used as those numbers, historically would have been triple or even ten times that at least.

Dub

nice one. justifying the IDF use of human shield?

No. Explaining that because Hamas deliberately begins actions and then uses their people as human shields the IDF is forced to fight them in their cities.

[dub]

Why thak you Bonam. Dub seems to be stuck in his 'thought in a box' koolective echo chamber rationalizing today. You are correct, the Use by Hamas, of the entire civilian population and society as human shields is exactly what I meant.

Dub

No. Explaining that because Hamas deliberately begins actions and then uses their people as human shields the IDF is forced to fight them in their cities.

but this is what you keep getting wrong.

the investigation has shown that hamas did not use people as human shields.

i mean, you can keep repeating it, but at the end, the only group who was found to have used civilians as human shield was the IDF.

i suppose you also blame hamas for IDF's use of civilians as human shields.

heh. you're such an apologist.

[M.Dancer]

the investigation has shown that hamas did not use people as human shields.

More evidence that AI is incompetant. With all the video footage of Hamas using human shields left right and centre, what AI should say is "Hamas told us they don't use kids for cover and that's good enough for us"

[dub]

More evidence that AI is incompetant. With all the video footage of Hamas using human shields left right and centre, what AI should say is "Hamas told us they don't use kids for cover and that's good enough for us"

which video footage? show us all.

have you gone to gaza and done a competent investigation?