Grits, Tories battle for Jewish support in next election

[jdobbin]

Yah like this.

Yah, like this:

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/P...907#SOB-2623108

Mr. Speaker, in another attack on Jewish people worldwide, anti-Israeli groups on university campuses today are marking the beginning of what they have dubbed infamously as “Israeli Apartheid Week”. They must not have a clear understanding of apartheid itself.

Unlike blacks in apartheid South Africa, Arab citizens of Israel have full political rights. They vote and participate in the political process. Arab Knesset representatives cross the spectrum, from the Communist and Arab nationalist parties through to the Likud. Salim Jubran, an Israeli Arab, is a judge on Israel's supreme court.

Acts of ignorance such as these protests should offend not only all Canadians, but Parliament as well. Why? Because an NDP student union is a co-sponsor. The very notion of a political party's connection to this brings shame to this chamber. These protests have become a haven for thugs who practice bully tactics and promote intolerance of the Jewish people.

I implore both the NDP and misguided campus groups everywhere to stand down from this week's long attack and recognize Israel for the vibrant democratic society that it is.

Edited August 20, 2009 by jdobbin

[myata]

They aren't nameless. Borys Wrzesnewsky was one in particular and last week, he didn't visit Gaza so as not to lend support to Hamas.

And?! What would be Mr Wrzeshewsky's alleged crime? Visiting the zone of a recent humanitarian disaster with other parliamentarians, and by invitation of UN? Looks like the Liberal ministry of truth is gathering momentum. Combined with absolute dead silence on ever expanding illegal settlements, it turns into a serious factor for "peace" (in the truth ministry sense of the world), certainly worthy, if somewhat belated, followers of their Conservative policy leaders.

By all means vote NDP and support their Israel Apartheid campaign.

Unlike yourself, I believe that admitting a problem is a necessary first step in addressing it (your new Liberal strategy appears to be that not seeing it should do the trick). So if I see a proof that certain policies of certain country(ies) indeed bear resemblance to the infamous aforementioned ones, I wouldn't be dismissing it as some kind of impossible taboo simply because my party line says so, or my frame of mind prevents me from admitting the reality. But maybe, being a Liberal these days translates not only in inability to perform some public functions (like finding out the situation on the ground in the zone of conflict), but to even having a view on any matter that is different from the party line. Who knows?

[jdobbin]

And?! What would be Mr Wrzeshewsky's alleged crime? Visiting the zone of a recent humanitarian disaster with other parliamentarians, and by invitation of UN? Looks like the Liberal ministry of truth is gathering momentum. Combined with absolute dead silence on ever expanding illegal settlements, it turns into a serious factor for "peace" (in the truth ministry sense of the world), certainly worthy, if somewhat belated, followers of their Conservative policy leaders.

The problem was being used as a tool for Hamas.

Unlike yourself, I believe that admitting a problem is a necessary first step in addressing it (your new Liberal strategy appears to be that not seeing it should do the trick). So if I see a proof that certain policies of certain country(ies) indeed bear resemblance to the infamous aforementioned ones, I wouldn't be dismissing it as some kind of impossible taboo simply because my party line says so, or my frame of mind prevents me from admitting the reality. But maybe, being a Liberal these days translates not only in inability to perform some public functions (like finding out the situation on the ground in the zone of conflict), but to even having a view on any matter that is different from the party line. Who knows?

Your party line seems to be to focus on Israel.

[benny]

Yah, like this:

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/P...907#SOB-2623108

Don't try again to deviate from your own topic by, this time, speaking of the NDP.

[punked]

Yah, like this:

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/P...907#SOB-2623108

Those aren't party policies, although it didn't take you long to dig up a reference to a campus group. LOL.

[jdobbin]

Those aren't party policies, although it didn't take you long to dig up a reference to a campus group. LOL.

Your party doesn't speak on the issue of their own party members. Wish this wasn't unusual. Your party is regarded as hostile to Israel in general.

[benny]

Your party doesn't speak on the issue of their own party members. Wish this wasn't unusual. Your party is regarded as hostile to Israel in general.

Why should the NDP battles for Canadian Jews' support?

[punked]

Your party doesn't speak on the issue of their own party members. Wish this wasn't unusual. Your party is regarded as hostile to Israel in general.

We have a policy on Israel voted for by members look it up instead of conservative reference to Campus Clubs.

[jdobbin]

We have a policy on Israel voted for by members look it up instead of conservative reference to Campus Clubs.

Yes, I have. And that policy is considered hostile to Israel.

[punked]

Yes, I have. And that policy is considered hostile to Israel.

It is a reaffirmation of the UN policy on the samething.

[jdobbin]

It is a reaffirmation of the UN policy on the samething.

That is now what I am talking about. It is the absolute hatred some in the NDP have of Israel.

http://www.policycentre.ca/2009/08/10/can-the-ndp-change/

There is much that is wrong with the policies of Israel. No-one can or should embrace some of the more egregious offenses against human rights and Israeli complicity in breaches of international law that have and will occur. But the fundamental evils of anti-Semitism, the holocaust and Jewish dispossession must haunt every political organization and party today. Forgetting must be impossible and solidarity never ending. The problem is that some elements in the NDP are possessed by a visceral hatred of Israel. And it shows. It infects the perception of the NDP to such an extent that no NDP pronouncement on Israel is credible. This is a political dead end. No modern and successful Canadian political party can be successful suffering from such an infection. It must be cured.

[benny]

And that policy is considered hostile to Israel.

And who says that?

[punked]

That is now what I am talking about. It is the absolute hatred some in the NDP have of Israel.

http://www.policycentre.ca/2009/08/10/can-the-ndp-change/

That is true of any party which has a large number of members. The NDP's party policy however is just the UN's.

[benny]

That is true of any party which has a large number of members. The NDP's party policy however is just the UN's.

This topic is not about the NDP.

[jdobbin]

That is true of any party which has a large number of members. The NDP's party policy however is just the UN's.

I'm afraid it is regarded as hatred by many when the shouting and heckling of anyone in the NDP who says something supportive of Israel is demonstrative of that.

But you don't have to convince me. Convince Jewish Canadians.

Edited August 20, 2009 by jdobbin

[punked]

I'm afraid it is regarded as hatred by many when the shouting and heckling of anyone in the NDP who says something supportive of Israel is demonstrative of that.

Our party will support an end to the fighting even that means a weaker Israel that is just the way it is. Our party has never though called for a weaker Israel just a solution.

[jdobbin]

Our party will support an end to the fighting even that means a weaker Israel that is just the way it is. Our party has never though called for a weaker Israel just a solution.

And that is why Jewish Canadians won't support NDP.

[benny]

I'm afraid it is regarded as hatred by many when the shouting and heckling of anyone in the NDP who says something supportive of Israel is demonstrative of that.

Again, this topic is not about the NDP.

[Bonam]

Have any of you seen these campus "Israel Apartheid" rallies? They are disgusting, hate-filled events led by Arab supremacists, antisemites, and their supporters. I was walking by two years ago when they were holding such a rally at UBC. "Israel Apartheid" plastered everywhere. The Israeli flag depicted with the Star of David morphed into a Swastika. A bearded Arab standing on a pedestal yelling obscenities and insulting Jews. "Death to Israel" written in chalk on the ground or graffitied onto the walls nearby.

There were several campus security personnel nearby, but they were only observing, not doing anything. I was appalled to see such an event being allowed to proceed on the university campus. The next day I read in the university paper that a Jewish student had been attacked (but not seriously injured) by some of the protesters at the rally. As far as I could tell, this was not reported in any other media, and no charges were laid.

Any party that supports hate rallies such as this is criminal, plain and simple. As for the protesters, they should have been rounded up and arrested, but unfortunately this form of defamation against Jews and Israel is now openly tolerated in Canada.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Bonam

[benny]

Have any of you seen these campus "Israel Apartheid" rallies? They are disgusting, hate-filled events led by Arab supremacists, antisemites, and their supporters.

As for the protesters, they should have been rounded up and arrested, but unfortunately this form of defamation against Jews and Israel is now openly tolerated in Canada.

You raise the issue of free of speech on the wrong thread.

[crazykai]

This reminds me of a Globe & Mail op-ed recently talking about the NDP's historical connections to communism and how it is relevent today. I say this because the NDP/CCF was once the party of the Jewish vote, along with the Slavic vote. Why? Well... the Conservative party's Quebec campaign manager in 1935 was a member of the Fascist Party of Canada, which was bankrolled by the Third Reich, who killed 6 millions Jews and even more innocient civilian Slavs. The Saskatchewan Tories ruled in the early 30s thanks to a coalition built with the KKK, who were against central and eastern European immigrants. The Alberta Tresury Board was founded in the 1930s by right-wing Social Credit, to "take money out of Jewish hands." It's remains the only major Alberta crown asset to this date. ... and the Great Liberal PM Mackenzie King wrote in his diary "the world will yet come to see a very great man - mystic in Hitler" and turned away shiploads of Jews fleeing the Holocaust.

[benny]

This reminds me of a Globe & Mail op-ed recently talking about the NDP's historical connections to communism and how it is relevent today. I say this because the NDP/CCF was once the party of the Jewish vote, along with the Slavic vote. Why? Well... the Conservative party's Quebec campaign manager in 1935 was a member of the Fascist Party of Canada, which was bankrolled by the Third Reich, who killed 6 millions Jews and even more innocient civilian Slavs. The Saskatchewan Tories ruled in the early 30s thanks to a coalition built with the KKK, who were against central and eastern European immigrants. The Alberta Tresury Board was founded in the 1930s by right-wing Social Credit, to "take money out of Jewish hands." It's remains the only major Alberta crown asset to this date. ... and the Great Liberal PM Mackenzie King wrote in his diary "the world will yet come to see a very great man - mystic in Hitler" and turned away shiploads of Jews fleeing the Holocaust.

Grits and Tories have reversed their positions since then but these reversals seem so trendy or arbitrary that back-to-square-one reversals seem always possible.

[myata]

That is true of any party which has a large number of members. The NDP's party policy however is just the UN's.

While the Liberal seems to be all about unnamed fears and well known labels and nothing of substance. As a way of convincing, and the way to the achieve the "peace".

Liberals just want to tread one tiny degree softer than the Conservative policy in throwing their support squarely behind one side in the conflict, and as an obvious consequence, bending all and everything to ignore its obvious violations and acts of agression, just as we're seeing in this very thread.

Really, what can be more ridiculous: examining situation first hand, by invitiation of UN, branded as "support of Hamas"? Isn't that (finding out situation first hand, rather than from the the hands of government spinners) one reason we elect representatives? Not Liberal, obviously. Ministry of truth defines the party line of day, and any deviation is treated as a taboo. Why does it remind me of something else here, could anybody help?

[Moonbox]

Myata maybe you can edit that post...because it barely even makes sense.

[myata]

Yes, it always works that way: selective visions lead to selective understanding and thinking, and then the reality returns to complete and perfect harmony with the way it should be.