Governments Should Address Mainstream Concern

[jbg]

People want from their government peace, order, good government, health, safety and international respect. They want to be secure in their jobs, medical care and home. They want protection against terror, and madmen who want nukes.

Instead, what do we get? Kyoto, gay marriage and now......... drum roll........protection for transgender rights. Excerpts below, (link to article):

June 24, 2009

New Protections for Transgender Federal Workers

By JIM RUTENBERG

WASHINGTON — Lawyers for President Obama are quietly drafting first-of-their kind guidelines barring workplace discrimination against transgender federal employees, officials said Tuesday.

The guidelines will be in an updated federal handbook for managers and supervisors to be distributed and posted online in the next couple of months, and they could also be included in other materials for managers. They will list transgender people — those who identify their gender differently from the information on their birth certificates — as among several groups protected by antidiscrimination laws.

Though transgender men and women are not believed to make up more than a fraction of a percent of the federal work force, their inclusion in the discrimination guidelines is seen as a breakthrough by transgender and gay rights advocates.

“The president is making a very clear statement that transgender people won’t be discriminated against,” said Mara Keisling, the executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality, a group that has been talking with the White House about the new provisions.

[Smallc]

I don't see the problem.

[jbg]

I don't see the problem.

A great way to lose US elections is to address the concerns of fringes and not that of Joe Lunchbucket. There are higher priorities on the punchlist than superior rights for transgendered people.

[Borg]

I don't see the problem.

Of course you do not

Borg

[Smallc]

I bet he can multitask.

[Smallc]

Of course you do not

Borg

And why am I not surprised that you do?

[Borg]

And why am I not surprised that you do?

When you finally grow up you will find there are far too many inequities in the world that are created by people who have never been anywhere or done anything - sometimes those new laws are far reaching and always twisted by lawyers to fit their own specific agenda - precendent, money and power - you pick the order of priority

You will be one of them - perhaps you will actually get out and do something of value before you get to where you are going - that will allow you to actually grow up - otherwise you will be one who provides more problems than solutions in this world - a self fulfilling prophecy - all in the name of "good for canada" by those who would impose their will upon the majority through legal razzle dazzle - yet they have never been anywhere or done anything - that silver spoon they were raised under made their life very easy.

The less government interference there is in canada the better - however you would have enforced rights to minorities that exceed those of the majority

I gave you some solid advice once - you chose to ignore it - therefore I know how you will turn out - and it will simply continue the downward spiral of the country - and you will be proud of it - an entitled Canadian

It is because of you and your ilk that we have moved cash and assets off shore - we intend to NOT let you and yours take it - and that is where the country is going - we have simply joined the train of business and individuals that want to keep what is ours and not be bothered by bullshit legislation.

And we treat our employees so well in the family businesses that they kicked a union guy off one of our largest properties - they do not work for us they work with us - and some have partner status which is reachable by all in time - our benefits, profit share and financial rewards exceed anything the "competition" could hope to offer - when our employees come to us they generally never leave - that is how good it is for them - and to think it all started from a rented corner gas station 25 years ago.

I travel extensively and have found canada is not the revered country it once was - because it stands for very little - yet you will continue on and think you are doing well.

What goes around comes around and the pendulum will swing the other way some day - hopefully before it is too late.

Borg

Edited June 25, 2009 by Borg

[Smallc]

It wouldn't be worth the response.

[Borg]

It wouldn't be worth the response.

Your attitude and response just proves everything I stated about you

Even when I attempt to engage you seriously you pull the superior and entitled canadian act

It is a shame - you could very possibly become a serious embarrassment to your family through this superior attitude

No one is good enough for someone such as you

Your life will be an interesting one - but when you kick off many years from now your family might be surprized at how many show up - not to mourn your passing - but just to be sure the body in the coffin is actually yours

Everything you do effects people around you and the world itself - ignore the majority and someday it will cause you much grief

Out of this thread now - you can run it

Borg

Edited June 25, 2009 by Borg

[WIP]

A great way to lose US elections is to address the concerns of fringes and not that of Joe Lunchbucket. There are higher priorities on the punchlist than superior rights for transgendered people.

Do I really need to point out to you that it wasn't that long ago that the concerns of Jews were also "fringe" concerns, and of no concern to Joe Lunchbucket? Conservative Jews have forgotten what it was like to be treated as a despised minority group, now that they see themselves as part of the white majority.

[Smallc]

Your attitude and response just proves everything I stated about you

You have no idea who I am...and I have no desire to be lectured by you. It wasn't worth the response....and it still isn't.

[Pliny]

You have no idea who I am...and I have no desire to be lectured by you. It wasn't worth the response....and it still isn't.

I enjoyed the "lecture".

[Oleg Bach]

I don't see the problem.

I do - no one is stopping anyone from having their rights-- we are so indoctrinated that we as the herd realize that all of us are prisoners - gays - straights - trans-gender - blacks whites - and so on and so on...us who are citizens and also prisoners of the state on the estate - really are not going to start attacking each other at this point - so you can drop the ruse that we have a problem amoung ourselves - we don't - the powers that be don't like it if we get along - so they destablize us with this contentious garbage that does not exist - nice try..but no cigar.

[jbg]

Do I really need to point out to you that it wasn't that long ago that the concerns of Jews were also "fringe" concerns, and of no concern to Joe Lunchbucket? Conservative Jews have forgotten what it was like to be treated as a despised minority group, now that they see themselves as part of the white majority.

Actually, Jewish concerns were never a "fringe" concern. If anything, Jews have attracted too much attention, both positive and negative, for a very small part of the population. To some extent, the better organization of Jewish family, educational and social life promotes more Jews into areas of prominence than their representation in the population. But the degree of attention to Israel's attempts to defend itself against hostile and savage neighbors is unprincipaled and hypocritical.

Everything you do effects people around you and the world itself - ignore the majority and someday it will cause you much grief

You hit the nail on the head. Jimmy Carter lost re-election that way and I fear that Obama is heading in the same direction. To further address WIP's point (and this is why I joined the responses) Jews are highly active in many "real life" parts of public and business affairs. I see no evidence that transgendered people share the same status.

[Remiel]

Jews are highly active in many "real life" parts of public and business affairs. I see no evidence that transgendered people share the same status.

What an amazing piece of self-refutation, jbg. Transgendered people note part of public affairs? That is exactly what the damn law in question is supposed to address!

The problem with this whole "mainstream" argument is something I shall call the "In Perpetuity" fallacy for the time being, since it is the first thing that came to mind. The problems of the "mainstream" are, for all intents and purposes when considered over time, infinite. Therefore, if you say that a problem should not be dealt with because it is not "mainstream" , then that argument will always be valid. And after five thousand years, people can still say that. But a lot of injustice happens in 5000 years. Alternatively, if a couple of people had deigned to spend a couple of days in parliament fixing the problem, that would save 5000 years of problems, and still leave 4999.99 years for the mainstreams concerns.

[eyeball]

Jews are highly active in many "real life" parts of public and business affairs. I see no evidence that transgendered people share the same status.

What about Liberace or Elton John? They may not be transgendered but lets face most if not all the revulsion for transgendered people stems from the notion that these folks are homosexual. If people believed otherwise society would be equally repulsed by any accommodations being made for anyone else who had been surgically altered in some way. That said, I bet if Buddy suddenly showed up to work sporting a 38 D cup size many of their co-workers would fall all over themselves in their haste to accommodate them.

Discrimination is always a mainstream concern. I wonder how many people still roll their eyes when they're told to install wheel-chair ramps?

Edited June 25, 2009 by eyeball

[jbg]

What about Liberace or Elton John? They may not be transgendered but lets face most if not all the revulsion for transgendered people stems from the notion that these folks are homosexual.

I have nothing against homosexuals. I have a lot against their pushing their agenda into society. I have a real problem with adolescents, already confused about the changes happening to them, that a "Peter Pan" clinging to purely same-sex relationships somehow represents a life-style choice. Since these people are already somewhat rebellious (part of the change to adulthood) to them staying back is now presented as progress, as support for "openness". It is a harmful thing to preach.

Discrimination is always a mainstream concern. I wonder how many people still roll their eyes when they're told to install wheel-chair ramps?

I'm all in favor of wheelchair ramps where they make sense. Requiring elevators into subway systems that no sane wheelchair-bound person would attempt to access makes little sense, other than drastically inflating construction costs.

[Smallc]

I have nothing against homosexuals. I have a lot against their pushing their agenda into society.

I'm sure people felt the same about Jews as well.

[jbg]

I'm sure people felt the same about Jews as well.

Are you learning about how to write inane one-liners from our new member that joined in March and has been goin ape on the board since?

[Topaz]

I thought this would be covered under their constitution and our Bill of Rights?

[Smallc]

Are you learning about how to write inane one-liners from our new member that joined in March and has been goin ape on the board since?

No, but you have to understand that it isn't just your interpretation and your priorities that apply. I know that most Americans wish that is could be every man for himself, keep government out of my life, and don't make me pay for anything that I don't like, but that's not the way it works. The government is addressing concerns of legal protection under the law, something guaranteed in your Constitution. Just because you don't find the particular group to be worthy of the attention doesn't mean that they shouldn't get it and it doesn't mean that this is the wrong thing to do. Extending rights to any non criminal group is never a bad thing.

[WIP]

Actually, Jewish concerns were never a "fringe" concern. If anything, Jews have attracted too much attention, both positive and negative, for a very small part of the population. To some extent, the better organization of Jewish family, educational and social life promotes more Jews into areas of prominence than their representation in the population. But the degree of attention to Israel's attempts to defend itself against hostile and savage neighbors is unprincipaled and hypocritical.

Which is all beside the point! Jews attracted attention in centuries past, simply for being non-Christian, and opening an embarrassing issue for the Church about the authenticity of the Messiah - if he was rejected by his countrymen.

But it doesn't matter what reasons why minorities may be at risk of vilification and discrimination -- the point is that a free society is obligated to protect the rights of those who may be too small in number to counter oppression of a hostile majority. I don't understand the reasons why a small number of people seem to grow up not feeling comfortable with their gender -- maybe it's hormones, who knows! -- but there is no reason why someone who has identified with the opposite gender, usually since early childhood, should not be protected from discrimination.

You hit the nail on the head. Jimmy Carter lost re-election that way and I fear that Obama is heading in the same direction. To further address WIP's point (and this is why I joined the responses) Jews are highly active in many "real life" parts of public and business affairs. I see no evidence that transgendered people share the same status.

You seem to view Jewish accomplishment as a kind of platinum card making Jews part of the ruling majority -- and I hope most Jews don't share your contempt for other minorities -- whether they are racial, religious, gender, sexual orientation or whatever.

Back in the 60's, the Ku Klux Klan was quick to note that the majority of white marchers who accompanied Martin Luther King and worked for the Southern Poverty Law Center, were Jews. Would the same thing happen today?

[lictor616]

I don't see the problem.

then you are simply blind...

[JerrySeinfeld]

I enjoyed the "lecture".

Me too. Even liberals should have to listen once in awhile.