normanchateau Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Are you now suggesting that he has no secret agenda? Show me where I said that Harper has a secret agenda. I have said that he's a social conservative. That's no secret. Neither is it inconsistent with Harper's desperate attempt to retain power at any cost. It's also no secret that Harper's agenda appears to be to convince members of his own party that he's a capable and effective leader rather than a lame duck controlled by Ignatieff. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Show me where I said that Harper has a secret agenda.I have said that he's a social conservative. That's no secret. Neither is it inconsistent with Harper's desperate attempt to retain power at any cost. It's also no secret that Harper's agenda appears to be to convince members of his own party that he's a capable and effective leader rather than a lame duck controlled by Ignatieff. Harpers agenda is personal power, nothing more and nothing less. Quote
capricorn Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 So you think Harper has no role in a coming election? In a coming election, Harper's role will be to defend his record. Harper, Layton and Duceppe can't have it both ways: Calling the Liberals cowards for not calling an election. Calling the Liberals irresponsible for calling an election. They'll opt for the irresponsibility argument. That would be consistent with the view of Canadians. I expect Tories will be screaming coward again if there is no election. Yes, if that's what you call repeating that in spite of their criticisms, Liberals have voted with the Conservatives instead of against them. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 In a coming election, Harper's role will be to defend his record.They'll opt for the irresponsibility argument. That would be consistent with the view of Canadians. Yes, if that's what you call repeating that in spite of their criticisms, Liberals have voted with the Conservatives instead of against them. That is not really a fair statement, they support the government when they were able to consistent with their policy framework. Quote
capricorn Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 It's a fair statement when you consider I was responding to a post by dobbin. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 It's a fair statement when you consider I was responding to a post by dobbin. Well.......... I suppose. Quote
normanchateau Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Harpers agenda is personal power, nothing more and nothing less. No surprise given that he's been a professional politician all his life. How sad that he has no other career to go back to. Quote
ToadBrother Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Yes, if that's what you call repeating that in spite of their criticisms, Liberals have voted with the Conservatives instead of against them. But that's quite often the case anyways. The problem is that most Canadians know nothing about how committees work, or how debates in the House work. They're fed dog-and-pony shows called Question Period and the Scrum, and assume somehow that the parties constantly fight it out. A minority situation is going to necessarily warp that quite a bit, since everyone's thinking "there could be an election tomorrow", and spending half the time trying to force it, and the other half the time trying to avoid. Edited June 16, 2009 by ToadBrother Quote
Smallc Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Exactly. People always talk about how uncivil the politicians are in the house. When they say that, I know they've never seen anything of the commons but snippits of Question Period. Quote
ToadBrother Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 No surprise given that he's been a professional politician all his life. How sad that he has no other career to go back to. Oh, I'm sure there will always be some right-wing think tank, where he'll be paid good money to come up with the answer those writing the cheques asked for. (And if anyone thinks I'm picking on right wingers, where there are left wing think tanks that do the same thing, think tanks only really think about ways to justify preconceived positions). Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 Yah can you believe the NDP voting against something they don't stand for instead of watching polls and campaigning from the time they get in until the next election? The NDP also said they would not force an election. Uh, that is what you do when you vote no confidence. Can't blame others if you are also voting that way. Not like that upstanding Liberal leader saying one thing one day and something else the next. How dare they! Layton has done that by saying he would not force an election. How is voting no every confidence motion not doing that? How dare he! Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 In a coming election, Harper's role will be to defend his record. I meant he has no role in forcing an election? He is in a minority yet never consults with other parties to avoid an election. He says he doesn't want one yet the last time he met with the Liberals was back in January. They'll opt for the irresponsibility argument. That would be consistent with the view of Canadians. Then you should be tossing that out at Harper as well for not consulting and the other Opposition parties for reflexively voting no every time. Yes, if that's what you call repeating that in spite of their criticisms, Liberals have voted with the Conservatives instead of against them. As has been pointed out by Harper when he was Opposition leader, it is not the job of the Opposition to support the government agenda but to hold it accountable. My feeling is that if Harper acts like a horse's ass today that we should go to an election Friday. The hue and cry about the election would disappear as soon as it was underway. How do I know this? Because there hasn't been an election in recent memory that people wanted and yet they voted anyway and generally didn't blame the party that called it. Quote
capricorn Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 As has been pointed out by Harper when he was Opposition leader, it is not the job of the Opposition to support the government agenda but to hold it accountable. My feeling is that if Harper acts like a horse's ass today that we should go to an election Friday. Then, here is an opportunity for Ignatieff to show some grit. I would respect Ignatieff for standing up for his principles if he voted against the government on the estimates, although I sense he'll do his part to ensure the government survives. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
punked Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) The NDP also said they would not force an election. Uh, that is what you do when you vote no confidence. Can't blame others if you are also voting that way. Layton has done that by saying he would not force an election. How is voting no every confidence motion not doing that? How dare he! Layton voted against the budget and in doing stated he would not support bills tied to the budget. Seems to me Iggy voted for the budget and supported this spending. See saying one things one day and something else the next. You can't turn this Liberal flip flopping around on another party some of them stand for things which aren't poll numbers. Edited June 16, 2009 by punked Quote
fellowtraveller Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Layton voted against the budget Layton is an even more advanced poltical creature than Harper or Ignatieff: Layton voted against a budget he had not yet seen. He is like Kreskin with a mustache. Quote The government should do something.
punked Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Layton is an even more advanced poltical creature than Harper or Ignatieff: Layton voted against a budget he had not yet seen.He is like Kreskin with a mustache. They have votes on budget before showing them to people? That doesn't seem like a good way to run government, ohhhh wait they show the budget everyone reads it then they vote. You almost had me with your Tom foolery I was thinking "someone can not be stupid enough to believe this." Good one. Quote
madmax Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Summer Election Watch 2009 TUESDAY BOO! Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 Then, here is an opportunity for Ignatieff to show some grit. I would respect Ignatieff for standing up for his principles if he voted against the government on the estimates, although I sense he'll do his part to ensure the government survives. It has been a long series meetings. Harper has to give something or we will be facing an election. I believe Harper knows this and knows that there are a fair number of Liberals who think now is the time to go as Harper himself will call the election later. Quote
punked Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 It has been a long series meetings. Harper has to give something or we will be facing an election. I believe Harper knows this and knows that there are a fair number of Liberals who think now is the time to go as Harper himself will call the election later. Did you get this "the election will be Harper's fault come hell or high water" from the Liberal bloggers or you come up with that spin yourself. If Iggy forces an election no amount of spin will make the election call Harper's fault. That is the Liberal's problem no matter how hard they try they can't pin this one on Harper and they know the person who calls the election will dip in the polls. Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 Layton voted against the budget and in doing stated he would not support bills tied to the budget. Seems to me Iggy voted for the budget and supported this spending. See saying one things one day and something else the next. You can't turn this Liberal flip flopping around on another party some of them stand for things which aren't poll numbers. Seems to me that Ignatieff based that support on economic statements. Layton said he would vote against the budget even before it was tabled. The he said that he would not force an election. He has flip flopped. We should have an election if for no other reason than to stop giving the NDP a free ride. Quote
punked Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 Seems to me that Ignatieff based that support on economic statements. Layton said he would vote against the budget even before it was tabled.The he said that he would not force an election. He has flip flopped. We should have an election if for no other reason than to stop giving the NDP a free ride. What are you talking about? Honestly? Layton said he would vote against the budget and all bills tied too it. So he votes against this bill and you get mad becuase unlike Iggy he is a man of his word? Iggy supported the budget and when Harper says "We are spending like we out lined the budget" Iggy gets all heavy handed for a few days then caved again. After 71 consecutive confidence votes in favour of Stephen Harper you keep pretending like he isn't a flip flopper. Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Did you get this "the election will be Harper's fault come hell or high water" from the Liberal bloggers or you come up with that spin yourself. If Iggy forces an election no amount of spin will make the election call Harper's fault. That is the Liberal's problem no matter how hard they try they can't pin this one on Harper and they know the person who calls the election will dip in the polls. The lazy NDP free ride of voting no every single time to every piece of legislation is the only thing the NDP are capable of. Layton is probably the biggest obstacle to the NDP doing better as he isn't regarded as a realistic. His only hope for a taste of power was in alliance with the Liberals. The NDP have this as their response. The Liberals are responsible for the election! The Liberals are responsible for supporting the government! Well, if we have an election, the NDP are also to blame for voting down the government. And last time I checked, I can't recall too many federal cases of party's being blamed for elections. Can you? Spin that. Edited June 16, 2009 by jdobbin Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) What are you talking about? Honestly? Layton said he would vote against the budget and all bills tied too it. So he votes against this bill and you get mad becuase unlike Iggy he is a man of his word? Iggy supported the budget and when Harper says "We are spending like we out lined the budget" Iggy gets all heavy handed for a few days then caved again. After 71 consecutive confidence votes in favour of Stephen Harper you keep pretending like he isn't a flip flopper. What are you talking about? Honestly? Layton said he would not force an election a few weeks ago. Is it no wonder that he is white eyed with terror about one now? Layton has flip flopped. And now his own job as MP could be endangered. Edited June 16, 2009 by jdobbin Quote
punked Posted June 16, 2009 Report Posted June 16, 2009 What are you talking about? Honestly? Layton said he would not force an election a few weeks ago. Is it no wonder that he is white eyed with terror about one now?Layton has flip flopped. And now his own job as MP could be endangered. He said come the budget "we don't support this and don't intend too." Iggy is the one who gets to own that vote. Keep spinning 71 times Iggy sided with Harper so far soon to be 72. Deal with it your guy is a big dude, and know what everyone is starting to see that. Once he props Harper up again look for his poll numbers drop. Quote
jdobbin Posted June 16, 2009 Author Report Posted June 16, 2009 He said come the budget "we don't support this and don't intend too." Iggy is the one who gets to own that vote. Keep spinning 71 times Iggy sided with Harper so far soon to be 72. Deal with it your guy is a big dude, and know what everyone is starting to see that. Once he props Harper up again look for his poll numbers drop. I'd love to see an election now if for no other reason than to see the NDP face the polls in their own ridings. Quote
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