Ignatieff Supports Harper's Crime Bill (C15)

[benny]

I don't care what excuse they give for supporting c-15, the fact is the Liberals supported a bill that contains mandaTORY minimums for cannabis offences.

What leads you to believe it is an excuse?

[Argus]

And in the meantime, organized crime has been setting up shop in Canada and turning it into a manufacturing and distribution base for illegal narcotics world-wide. Lax laws, weak sentences and easy parole combined with a severe shortage of police resources is making Canada a haven for organized crime.

Japan has identified Canada as the single biggest source for seized ecstasy tablets, followed by the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium.

The report also found that Canadian organized crime groups have significantly increased their participation in the meth trade over the past few years.

“By 2006, law enforcement intelligence noted that Asian organized crime and traditional outlaw motorcycle gangs operating in Canada had increased the amount of methamphetamine they manufactured and exported, primarily into the USA, but also to Oceania and East and South-East Asia,” the report found.

Australia says Canada accounts for 83 per cent of total seized meth imports by weight; in Japan, the figure is 62 per cent.

Canada top producer/exporter of ectasty and meth

[Jerry J. Fortin]

And in the meantime, organized crime has been setting up shop in Canada and turning it into a manufacturing and distribution base for illegal narcotics world-wide. Lax laws, weak sentences and easy parole combined with a severe shortage of police resources is making Canada a haven for organized crime.

Japan has identified Canada as the single biggest source for seized ecstasy tablets, followed by the Netherlands, Germany and Belgium.

The report also found that Canadian organized crime groups have significantly increased their participation in the meth trade over the past few years.

“By 2006, law enforcement intelligence noted that Asian organized crime and traditional outlaw motorcycle gangs operating in Canada had increased the amount of methamphetamine they manufactured and exported, primarily into the USA, but also to Oceania and East and South-East Asia,” the report found.

Australia says Canada accounts for 83 per cent of total seized meth imports by weight; in Japan, the figure is 62 per cent.

Canada top producer/exporter of ectasty and meth

Not a nice thing to be limelighted for is it?

[eyeball]

Even in a democracy, a leader should endeavor to put the population face to face with its contradictions. As the next best chameleon man, Ignatieff will not at all be up to this task.

No leader should have to continually pump fear and loathing into a population faced with the contradiction that violent crime like crime generally is falling but we still need more police with more power and harsher punishment for criminals.

I suppose all tyranny's and police states must be founded on the same principles of fear and loathing. The mechanism of how it happens is simple enough albeit particularily pathetic. As the "issue" of who's toughest on crime plays out Conservatives and Liberals both slowly but inexorably act together to push and pull our society towards oblivion. Ignatieff and Harper are perfectly matched for this little dance.

The population of course has its role to play and we really should be ashamed of ourselves for allowing this to happen.

[eyeball]

“The drug control regime has contained drug abuse in terms of percentages of the population to a fraction compared to tobacco addiction,”

If I was an alcoholic, or had FASD or a smoking related illness I'd be inclined to sue the government for compensation. Everyone has the right to equal protection before and under the law as any other drug addict. Everyone but drinkers and smokers that is.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada top producer/exporter of ectasty and meth

Holy Meth Lab, Batman! I knew it was bad....but not that bad.

[jdobbin]

And in the meantime, organized crime has been setting up shop in Canada and turning it into a manufacturing and distribution base for illegal narcotics world-wide. Lax laws, weak sentences and easy parole combined with a severe shortage of police resources is making Canada a haven for organized crime.

The reason they have set up shop in Canada appears to be because they can get the ingredients easier. I've wonder why the Tories haven't moved to make those chemicals illegal. It isn't very controversial.

[eyeball]

The reason they have set up shop in Canada appears to be because they can get the ingredients easier. I've wonder why the Tories haven't moved to make those chemicals illegal. It isn't very controversial.

I suppose politicians will always need a certain number of criminals around so they can justify having crime as an issue to scare the population with while positioning themselves as being the toughest on crime.

[eyeball]

Holy Meth Lab, Batman! I knew it was bad....but not that bad.

What's really bad though is the demand for these drugs. Why doesn't the US get tough on its users? The demand is the root cause of the problem, why not nip it in the bud?

[bush_cheney2004]

What's really bad though is the demand for these drugs. Why doesn't the US get tough on its users? The demand is the root cause of the problem, why not nip it in the bud?

Because the bud is in Canada?

When the US does get tough on users and traffickers, then peoplke whine about 2 million prisoners and growing.

Many US states have removed a key Meth ingredient from store shelves....has Canada?

[benny]

No leader should have to continually pump fear and loathing into a population faced with the contradiction that violent crime like crime generally is falling but we still need more police with more power and harsher punishment for criminals.

I don't think the population is facing a contradiction involving crimes statistics but a contradiction about the use of the stick vs. the carrot in highly publicized events.

[Argus]

The reason they have set up shop in Canada appears to be because they can get the ingredients easier. I've wonder why the Tories haven't moved to make those chemicals illegal. It isn't very controversial.

The reasons they have set up shop in Canada are varied. First, we didn't put much of a priority in crushing the marijuana industry, and they've set up smuggling routes into the US which allowed first ecstasy and now meth to tag along.

We don't have nearly as many police per citizen as other western countries.

We have higher civil liberty protections for criminals than other countries, making the job of police more difficult.

We have weak criminal laws.

We have weak sentencing on those weak laws.

We have guaranteed parole on the weak sentences on the weak laws - which, of course, is combined with weak enforcement.

Many of the chemicals are smuggling in from China, which points to two other aspects which are behind this.

Almost non-existent border controls on people and materials. Our coastlines are wide open to smuggling, as are our ports.

Almost non-existent control of immigration. Many of the gangs behind smuggling this are made up of Asians and East Asians.

You see what's happening in Mexico now? That could be BC in a few years.

[jdobbin]

The reasons they have set up shop in Canada are varied. First, we didn't put much of a priority in crushing the marijuana industry, and they've set up smuggling routes into the US which allowed first ecstasy and now meth to tag along.

We don't have nearly as many police per citizen as other western countries.

We have higher civil liberty protections for criminals than other countries, making the job of police more difficult.

We have weak criminal laws.

We have weak sentencing on those weak laws.

We have guaranteed parole on the weak sentences on the weak laws - which, of course, is combined with weak enforcement.

I know those on the right want to get tough on all these issues and then get tougher yet again.

However, why not start off simple and go after the ingredients before ending the right to privacy.

[eyeball]

You see what's happening in Mexico now? That could be BC in a few years.

This is good news to Canada's moral entrepreneurs. As for their solutions, you see the US? That will be Canada in a few years.

In the meantime I see the local Lions Club will be sponsoring the beer gardens at our town fair again this year. The Lions have their headquarters including a bar right next door to the local elementary school. The outdoor smoking section is in full view of the kid's playground.

Oh the humanity.

Edited June 24, 2009 by eyeball

[eyeball]

I know those on the right want to get tough on all these issues and then get tougher yet again.

However, why not start off simple and go after the ingredients before ending the right to privacy.

I hear those in the center don't want to get tougher on all these issues yet again. But, here they are yet again, complicit willing partners in the act of turning our country into a police state.

Added to the list Argus supplied; we have some of the world's lamest politicians.

I still think the day will come when the supreme court forces the issue by applying the charter of rights and freedoms consistently. One way or another substance users in this country are not being treated equally before or under the law, in terms of enjoying a liberty interest or protection.

Edited June 24, 2009 by eyeball

[Argus]

I know those on the right want to get tough on all these issues and then get tougher yet again.

Whereas those on the left, particularly in the Liberal Party, are busy smoking the weed, and sucking up to the drug dealers in hopes of getting donations and ethnic support.

However, why not start off simple and go after the ingredients before ending the right to privacy.

I'm all for it, but the ingredients are apparently, according to the cops and the report, being smuggled in from China, so banning them will be of limited use - given you guys got rid of the ports police, leaving our ports wide open to organized crime.

I don't think the US has eliminated the right to privacy. On the other hand, when cops make drug buys there they tape them and the recordings are evidence in court. Here, they can't use them because the courts (mostly Liberal party bag men) have decided that violates the criminals' rights.

[jdobbin]

Whereas those on the left, particularly in the Liberal Party, are busy smoking the weed, and sucking up to the drug dealers in hopes of getting donations and ethnic support.

Clever. I have never taken any illegal drug. Can you say the same? And what drug dealer did you buy it from if you did?

I'm all for it, but the ingredients are apparently, according to the cops and the report, being smuggled in from China, so banning them will be of limited use - given you guys got rid of the ports police, leaving our ports wide open to organized crime.

When is the extremist right wing going to take some responsibility for legislation that other countries have put in place. And since the Tories have been in power since 2006, where are the Port Police now? Where?

I don't think the US has eliminated the right to privacy. On the other hand, when cops make drug buys there they tape them and the recordings are evidence in court. Here, they can't use them because the courts (mostly Liberal party bag men) have decided that violates the criminals' rights.

What BS. Canada is less restrictive on things like the right to remain silent and any expert of the country will agree. Our federal court has sided with the state more often than people think.

Tories keep this anti-judiciary thing going all the time but they can't even ban ingredients for drugs or hire more police and put their money where their mouth is. Tell me who is stopping them?

[benny]

Tories keep this anti-judiciary thing going all the time but they can't even ban ingredients for drugs or hire more police and put their money where their mouth is.

The populist Right-Wingers are intoxicating themselves with their own hate.

[eyeball]

When is the extremist right wing going to take some responsibility for legislation that other countries have put in place. And since the Tories have been in power since 2006, where are the Port Police now? Where?

Good question. We should also have more border guards checking for the import of truly dangerous things like illegal weapons.

What BS. Canada is less restrictive on things like the right to remain silent and any expert of the country will agree. Our federal court has sided with the state more often than people think.

Are the Liberals proposing to change this when they get in power? Why should we believe them in light of their decades of dithering on things like reforming marijuana laws? I've seen little if anything to suggest that Liberals are any more concerned about siding with people by limiting the states power than the Conservatives.

Tories keep this anti-judiciary thing going all the time but they can't even ban ingredients for drugs or hire more police and put their money where their mouth is. Tell me who is stopping them?

10$ bucks says the Liberal's are.

[jdobbin]

Are the Liberals proposing to change this when they get in power? Why should we believe them in light of their decades of dithering on things like reforming marijuana laws? I've seen little if anything to suggest that Liberals are any more concerned about siding with people by limiting the states power than the Conservatives.

In terms of the right to remain silent, I have not seen what changes the Liberals are proposing. Last I heard was that Irwin Cotler was looking into an initiative.

In overall terms though, it was the Liberals who had a Charter of Rights entrenched in the Constitution.

[eyeball]

In overall terms though, it was the Liberals who had a Charter of Rights entrenched in the Constitution.

Everybody was looking for a way to "bring the constitution home". I suspect if they'd been in power at the time the Tory's would have likewise left their own distinctive touch to the act of doing so. I think its pretty much a given that its only as a matter of political/electoral expediancy when politicians from either party claims to be better at protecting people from the state.

The prohibition and criminalization of marijuana in particular is about as close to where the rubber hits the road when it comes to using the power of the state to intrude into a person's life. Grit waffling on marijuana reform is only matched by Tory claims they stand taller for getting the government off the people's backs. Both are equally full of BS.

[punked]

In overall terms though, it was the Liberals who had a Charter of Rights entrenched in the Constitution.

And it was the NDP who came up with the Canadian Charter of Rights. Liberals are old hat they don't come up with any new ideas they just water down the old ones.

[jdobbin]

And it was the NDP who came up with the Canadian Charter of Rights. Liberals are old hat they don't come up with any new ideas they just water down the old ones.

Please describe in detail how the NDP came up with the Charter of Rights.

[punked]

Please describe in detail how the NDP came up with the Charter of Rights.

In 1947, Saskatchewan passed into law a bill of rights which was, and continues to be, unique. The Saskatchewan Bill of Rights covered both fundamental freedoms and equality rights. This was seen as the forerunner for Diefenbaker, who was from Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, to introduce Canadian Bill of Rights, thirteen years later, in 1960.

The Bill of rights was then put into the Constitution by the Liberals and they claimed as their own. Your party is old hat my friend water down ideas taken from others.

I would also like to point out the CCF in Saskatchewan created that bill of rights a year before even the UN got on board with the idea.

yDobbin want to join a real progressive party yet?

Edited June 26, 2009 by punked

[jdobbin]

yDobbin want to join a real progressive party yet?

And yet we don't have one mention of the the NDP's involvement in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms at the federal level.

It is probably because even before the Saskatchewan Bill of Rights came the Implied Bill of Rights from the Supreme Court of Canada in 1938. That court was filled with former Liberals and Conservatives.

Your party didn't think up anything original but nice try.

Edited June 26, 2009 by jdobbin