jbg Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) Anyone who thinks rep-by-prop solves anything, or is anything other than an insane idea, needs to look at Europe. Pirates are now represented in the EU Parliament? This is not my idea of a bad joke. Excerpts below, link to article. Swedish pirates capture EU seat Sweden's Pirate Party has won a seat in the European Parliament. The group - which campaigned on reformation of copyright and patent law - secured 7.1% of the Swedish vote. The result puts the Pirate Party in fifth place, behind the Social Democrats, Greens, Liberals and the Moderate Party. Rickard Falkvinge, the party leader, told the BBC the win was "gigantic" and that they were now negotiating with four different EU Parliamentary groups. "Last night, we gained political credibility," said Mr Falkvinge. "People were not taken in by the establishment and we got political trust from the citizens." The profile of the Pirate Party and issues surrounding copyright law have dominated headlines in Sweden over the past few months. Rallying cry In April, a court in Sweden sentenced the four men behind The Pirate Bay, the world's most high-profile file-sharing website, to a year in jail and ordered them to pay $4.5m (£3m) in damages. What people don't realize is that an MP elected in this matter has a free hand to join any coalition since the voters elected them only to further an illegal activity. Thus, people in Sweden have great pro-piracy representation, lousy representation on other issues. Is this what the NDP has in mind? Edited June 11, 2009 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverwind Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 It is worth noting that the turnout was 43.8% (7.1% of 43.8% == 3.1%). http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work-live/Go...or-EU-election/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 It is worth noting that the turnout was 43.8% (7.1% of 43.8% == 3.1%).http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work-live/Go...or-EU-election/ I would suspect that is a very likely outcome in a rep-by-prop election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visionseeker Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Anyone who thinks rep-by-prop solves anything, or is anything other than an insane idea, needs to look at Europe. Pirates are now represented in the EU Parliament? This is not my idea of a bad joke. Excerpts below, link to article. Swedish pirates capture EU seat Sweden's Pirate Party has won a seat in the European Parliament. The group - which campaigned on reformation of copyright and patent law - secured 7.1% of the Swedish vote. The result puts the Pirate Party in fifth place, behind the Social Democrats, Greens, Liberals and the Moderate Party. Rickard Falkvinge, the party leader, told the BBC the win was "gigantic" and that they were now negotiating with four different EU Parliamentary groups. "Last night, we gained political credibility," said Mr Falkvinge. "People were not taken in by the establishment and we got political trust from the citizens." The profile of the Pirate Party and issues surrounding copyright law have dominated headlines in Sweden over the past few months. Rallying cry In April, a court in Sweden sentenced the four men behind The Pirate Bay, the world's most high-profile file-sharing website, to a year in jail and ordered them to pay $4.5m (£3m) in damages. What people don't realize is that an MP elected in this matter has a free hand to join any coalition since the voters elected them only to further an illegal activity. Thus, people in Sweden have great pro-piracy representation, lousy representation on other issues. Is this what the NDP has in mind? I'd be cool with this had they been true pirates and adherents to the FSM. Arrrg! But alas they seek only to protect their own ill gotten gains rather than promote his noodliness. Seriously though, what kind of influence do you think this group could possibly have? Even if they joined a coalition, do you honestly think that their single issue would dominate questions of governance. Rep by Pop has its place and the EU is actually an appropriate forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 You aren't talking about rep by pop (a very good system), you're talking about PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I'd be cool with this had they been true pirates and adherents to the FSM. Arrrg! But alas they seek only to protect their own ill gotten gains rather than promote his noodliness.Seriously though, what kind of influence do you think this group could possibly have? Even if they joined a coalition, do you honestly think that their single issue would dominate questions of governance. Rep by Pop has its place and the EU is actually an appropriate forum. My pointis that on issues other than their narrow issue the MP elected to the EU has a totally unguided hand. Not a good thing. You aren't talking about rep by pop (a very good system), you're talking about PR. And the difference is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 The unguided hand? Look at the Swiss system. I don't know about you folks, but it seems to me that the only "guide" here is the partisan leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 And the difference is? Huge. Rep by pop is division of electoral districts based on population....PR is the division of seats by vote percentage (in some form or another). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Canada usese rep by pop (though it isn't perfect because of the floor on seats). We don't use PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 The alternative to PR is being stuck with exactly two most of the time pretty faceless parties, that most of the time look like mirror image of each other, forever. Because doing anything real is bound to stir emotions and give a cause for attack to the other side, the two would carefully avoid doing anything real unless they really really have to, and then, diverting it instead into safe and self satisfying hot air. Sounds familiar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 The alternative to PR is being stuck with exactly two most of the time pretty faceless parties, that most of the time look like mirror image of each other, forever. Because doing anything real is bound to stir emotions and give a cause for attack to the other side, the two would carefully avoid doing anything real unless they really really have to, and then, diverting it instead into safe and self satisfying hot air. Sounds familiar? One of the problems with PR, aside from getting "joke parties" is that the PM will often blame inaction and/or welshing on campaign promises on the "coalition partners" and raise the spector of perpetual elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) Indeed, if there was an ideal political setup, it would probably have been invented by now. But if there had to be issues and problems, I'd prefer them to reflect the realitoes of the country's political landscape and electorate, rather than those of the political elite. With PR, in a dismal situation as we have now (Harper vs Ignatieff), a third party could perhaps bring some fresh air, as a coalition partner. With our current system, we'll be stuck with the binary choice (Iggy / Harper or throw away your vote) forever. Edited June 11, 2009 by myata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I think the value of PR is that offbeat or anti-establishment views can gain recognition, and can spur the established parties to better represent real constituents. Let's face it ... the current established parties only represent the corporatocracy that fills their election coffers. Obviously the issue of access to internet information is an important one to the public, at least in the area where this MP was elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guthrie Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Anyone who thinks rep-by-prop solves anything, or is anything other than an insane idea, needs to look at Europe. Pirates are now represented in the EU Parliament? This is not my idea of a bad joke. Excerpts below, link to article. Swedish pirates capture EU seat Sweden's Pirate Party has won a seat in the European Parliament. The group - which campaigned on reformation of copyright and patent law - secured 7.1% of the Swedish vote. The result puts the Pirate Party in fifth place, behind the Social Democrats, Greens, Liberals and the Moderate Party. Rickard Falkvinge, the party leader, told the BBC the win was "gigantic" and that they were now negotiating with four different EU Parliamentary groups. "Last night, we gained political credibility," said Mr Falkvinge. "People were not taken in by the establishment and we got political trust from the citizens." The profile of the Pirate Party and issues surrounding copyright law have dominated headlines in Sweden over the past few months. Rallying cry In April, a court in Sweden sentenced the four men behind The Pirate Bay, the world's most high-profile file-sharing website, to a year in jail and ordered them to pay $4.5m (£3m) in damages. What people don't realize is that an MP elected in this matter has a free hand to join any coalition since the voters elected them only to further an illegal activity. Thus, people in Sweden have great pro-piracy representation, lousy representation on other issues. Is this what the NDP has in mind? proportional representation is what we practice in the American House of Representatives --- it may be insane but we've been working it for a little over 200 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) proportional representation is what we practice in the American House of Representatives --- it may be insane but we've been working it for a little over 200 years No it isn't. We have single-member districts that are functionally the same as ridings in the HOC. P.S. I see we now have a Pirate Party (link) in Canada? Frickin' insane. Edited July 3, 2009 by jbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Bump. And the stinking PR corpse is revived to roam the MLW again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 The group - which campaigned on reformation of copyright and patent law - secured 7.1% of the Swedish vote. I dont see why this is a problem, and why the OP is mocking this party. I happen to agree that our copyright and patent laws need reform. Intellectual property is protected too heavily for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted June 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I dont see why this is a problem, and why the OP is mocking this party. I happen to agree that our copyright and patent laws need reform. Intellectual property is protected too heavily for too long. Move to the PRC then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Double bump from discussion in the Ontario election thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Discussion about the Ontario election in the world politics forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Ahhh... yeah I missed that. Well, it's a world issue on a certain level but maybe we should ignore this thread, another one has been bumped more relevant to Ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.