Why is Canada's birth rate so low?

[Chuck U. Farlie]

After reading America Alone I started to think about why Canada (and other first world Western countries) have such low birth rates, and in particular why I don't plan to have any kids.

After reading through the Tax-Freedom-Day thread and clicking through smallc's link regarding tax rates versus GDP I think (although I haven't found any research to back it up) that there is a strong correlation between high tax rates and a low birth rate. I think if you take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...rcentage_of_GDP and then look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_birth_rate it is easy to see that the countries with the highest birth rates have the lowest taxes.

Now... if I consider my own situation. I make a decent income for a guy in my mid-thirties - slightly above the national median income at about $50k/yr. My Dad made less in 1960 dollars when he started our family, but he also paid considerably less tax.

Despite a reasonable income, I still don't think I can afford to have any kids. After I pay income tax, pst, gst, property tax, plus my mortgage, utilities, gasoline, insurance, food, and a very small amount for entertainment (no cable, no satellite, no homephone - only luxury is an internet connection), there just isn't anything left. I don't know how I could possibly afford daycare, clothes, formula, and everything else that kids need. I am lucky if I get a 2.5% raise every year, so my income level isn't likely to change much in the next few years.

If there isn't enough money to give a kid a good life, then I won't have a kid - and I think many couples have similar thoughts. If an average income earner can't afford to have children you are bound to have a very low birth rate - so in essence government taxes are driving our own cultural extinction.

[Smallc]

I really don't see that you can make a direct correlation between that. There are many factors that play into birth rate...that said, if you'd like to move to Myanmar and have more children, it's completely up to you.

It seems that there is a more direct correlation between a low birth rate and higher quality of life. The happier and wealthier people are, the fewer children they have.

[wyly]

It seems that there is a more direct correlation between a low birth rate and higher quality of life. The happier and wealthier people are, the fewer children they have.

agreed...as education goes up birthrate goes down...better education=fewer kids=more wealth

[Topaz]

Well, I guess not too many families have 12 or 18 kids anymore and some couples who want kids usually end up having 1 or 2 or depending if they have a son to carry on the family name. I know couple who don't want kids at all. They want their freedom to come and go as they please and not to be tied down with crying baby in the middle of the night. It like some couple don't want to get married and rather live together in common-law because the guy sees it as it cost too money to get a divorce and if there kids involved he's paying support a long time. I guess money would be part of the decide but the more part is are you really ready to take on parenthood 100%? NO? then don't have them to please your parents.

[Argus]

If there isn't enough money to give a kid a good life, then I won't have a kid - and I think many couples have similar thoughts. If an average income earner can't afford to have children you are bound to have a very low birth rate - so in essence government taxes are driving our own cultural extinction.

Well, part of that is that government does A LOT more now at all levels than it used to. And few people want it to do a lot less, it seems. We didn't have pensions to contribute to back in my father's time, and pogey contributions were much less. The government didn't find it necessary to pay for parties and festivals and heavily subsidize the arts and publishing industries. Official Bilingualism didn't drain a billion a year, and we weren't paying nearly as much for various welfare and poverty abatement programs, for care for the disabled, for child care, for environmental and various other industrial subsidies etc. etc.

Most people also lived with less disposable items. They used rags, not paper towels, scrubbed pans without using tinfoil or Pam on them beforehand, washed diapers rather than using disposables. There were no baggies back then, and cupboards weren't filled with chips and pretzels and popcorn and coke. We didn't pay for cable or internet or buy computers, cell phones, X-boxes, DVDs or microwaves. The fees we paid to our banks were far lower on everything from mortgages to bank accounts and credit cards. In fact, a case could be made that the increase in taxes is much smaller in comparison, than the increase in financial fees we now pay - often without being aware of the extent.

The mere fact that most women work now, though, makes having children far, far more of an inconvenience than it was in previous generations, especially to generations which have been taught that their own personal happiness should be the primary focus of their lives.

[Moonbox]

The mere fact that most women work now, though, makes having children far, far more of an inconvenience than it was in previous generations, especially to generations which have been taught that their own personal happiness should be the primary focus of their lives.

Bingo. That's pretty much the number one and overwhelming reason.

[Oleg Bach]

You have programmed woman that are of breeding age to ask one question of a prospective mate "how much money do you make?' - You have created a court culture - and a system of family law that make fatherhood a nightmare instead of a delightful dream - you have butchified females with eccentric feminist notions - you have gayified even our straight males - you have equated sex with death (AIDS) - YOU promote condomes and not life or breeding. You have allowed pornography to replace the real sexual needs with artifical relief....YOU have imported more tradional cultures that actually know what sex is natrually for....NEED I GO ON? YOU have emotionally made geldings of our males and crazed dog loving bitches our of most of our females ----------------WE LIVE IN A CLIMATE OF FEAR.....WHERE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS NATURAL .... Where people suddenly after 10 thousand years say "We can not affort to have kids yet"

Since when has breeding been based in the economic...what a couple toss in the garbage can feed two children.

[bjre]

The mere fact that most women work now, though, makes having children far, far more of an inconvenience than it was in previous generations, especially to generations which have been taught that their own personal happiness should be the primary focus of their lives.

Why lots of woman have to work now? Is it because their husbands can no longer earn enough to support them?

[Alta4ever]

In Canada all you have to look at is a birth rate chart, its funny how the birth rate drops off dramatically right after abortion was legalized.

[Argus]

Why lots of woman have to work now? Is it because their husbands can no longer earn enough to support them?

No, more like don't earn enough to support them in the manner to which they wish to live. I knew a guy once who earned over $100k. His wife still worked, and they had one child, yet they were always short of money. They had a huge house, three cars, a cottage, and took many vacations. Now if they had had a normal house, say a nineteen fifties style bungalow, one car, and cut back on the vacations, they could have easily paid the bills and probably had three kids instead - like the original owners of the bungalow did.

[bjre]

In Canada all you have to look at is a birth rate chart, its funny how the birth rate drops off dramatically right after abortion was legalized.

That is a forcing/bully approach, just as jails, not by willingness. Maybe it can increase population, but maybe only for those who need more social supporting instead of those who can contribute something to society.

[bjre]

No, more like don't earn enough to support them in the manner to which they wish to live. I knew a guy once who earned over $100k. His wife still worked, and they had one child, yet they were always short of money. They had a huge house, three cars, a cottage, and took many vacations. Now if they had had a normal house, say a nineteen fifties style bungalow, one car, and cut back on the vacations, they could have easily paid the bills and probably had three kids instead - like the original owners of the bungalow did.

I earn more than 100k, I pay tax more than 40k a year, I have wife and kids, I can still not afford to buy a house, I am living in apartment. a semi-detached very old house need 500k in Toronto. If I ask for mortgage, for 25 years, I need to pay 400k to bank as interest. So the house price becomes 900k not include many other expenses. What if I lose my job one day? If goes back to 20 years before when that house was about 100k, I would buy it without hesitation.

[Alta4ever]

That is a forcing/bully approach, just as jails, not by willingness. Maybe it can increase population, but maybe only for those who need more social supporting instead of those who can contribute something to society.

So are you saying that a segment of our population becuase they don't have as much money as you are incapable of over comming adversity to contribute to our society?

[Oleg Bach]

SEX - during my years as an entertainer - part of my job description was to have sex with as many woman as posssible - I never looked at it as recreational - I never used a condom and would have been more that pleased and willing to take responsiblity for and child that resulted - and in the end I did - I did my duty - where as todays males are terrified of fatherhood and sex to them is a totally selfish act..it is not creational - we have programmed our young that blowing into a condom is sex and manly - It's actuaully quite pitiful - My father said to me once

"any woman worth of laying with is worthy of being a wife - if you think otherwise you are disrespecting yourself and the woman and you become less than a dumb animal" _ our young are less than animals these days and that is what our social engineers want - The powers that be love it when their heirs have children - but they diswade all others from bringing real wealth into the world.

[bjre]

So are you saying that a segment of our population becuase they don't have as much money as you are incapable of over comming adversity to contribute to our society?

I did not say that.

I just think taxes are too high, and houses are too expensive.

It is not easy to make living now.

And force others not to do something by bullying is not a correct way.

Edited June 8, 2009 by bjre

[Oleg Bach]

Funny - in poor country's they have children - in our nation we think that having children makes you poor. It does not - it all works out - I raised four children - with a sporadic income - all of my adult children are intelligent and successful...We live in a nation that is not condusive to breeding and to family...those with great influence like to imagine their "clan" growing and maintaining authority while all others clans decline ---- Once I said to a powerful man - "I am part of a desolving clan" I could hear statisfaction in his voice - that he was happy that my family was disappearing and his was not - I was faking it - but I will never devulged that to him..because they love culling the herd - and love abortion ---but NOT for their own.

[Alta4ever]

I did not say that.

I just think taxes are too high, and houses are too expensive.

It is not easy to make living now.

It is very easy to make a living and buy a house if you are willing to work for it. I started out with nothing, got the long 25 year morgage, and built from their, in 10 years I have managed to step up through 5 houses, every time putting sweat equity into them and selling them for more then I bought them for, to a point now, were I am virtually debt free. For 6 years of the 10 I made less then $40,000 per year, gradually increases my wage as my career porgressed. Did I mention we also raised a family while doing it.

Taxes are too high but its not an excuse. If you want it make sacrifices and find a way.