2009 Tax Freedom Day

[Smallc]

You think only "reformers" disagree with the tax system? Who are "reformers"?

People who want tax reform.

So you want to focus on what works and ignore what doesn't work.

Of course not, but many seem simply incapable of even acknowledging what does work. We pay less tax now than we have in decades. I don't know what more people expect. There is far more right with this country than there is wrong. Perhaps we shouldn't go fooling with a good thing.

Do you have any evidence of that?

We're in the middle of a recession. People are more worried about the economy and jobs.

As for the surveys, well, people always say that they pay too much tax. Americans say they pay too much tax. People don't like having to pay money, and that's not a surprise.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Smallc

[Smallc]

So in other words, your experience is limited.

Yes, it is, but unless the tax rates suddenly go up substantially, I'm not going to be complaining.

[bjre]

I am still waiting for my refund!

They are waiting for me: "Before we can complete the assessment of your return, we need more information about the following claim(s) .....

[bjre]

Near half a year's work is for jails, count, cops, and others.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yes, it is, but unless the tax rates suddenly go up substantially, I'm not going to be complaining.

Get ready for it my friend, taxes never go down. The only direction is up. Mind you if you are a small business owner this does not apply to you, only the working class folks worry about this reality. This next step up the ladder from the working class savage such as myself get the all breaks that we others Canadians dream about but don't have the means to take advantage of the system.

You can suggest that the 2% drop in GST is relevant, but saving two dollars on a hundred doesn't translate that well for me. You can say that income tax rates have come down, but user fees and the like go up along with other sin taxes and gas taxes etc. Have you ever seen your municipal taxes go down? Never happens, what one level of government reduces another takes up the slack and increases their share of the pie.

I will suggest that you have never paid a dime in taxes, never worked for someone else for a living and will likely never have to. So from your viewpoint of course there is nothing wrong with the system. You probably don't pay for healthcare, your food, your housing, your insurance, your utilities and even your gas. I am willing to bet that your business covers all of this very nicely. It probably even leaves you some pocket change that you don't pay tax on. How close to reality am I?

[Smallc]

How close to reality am I?

Quite far from it.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Quite far from it.

Really, where did I go wrong?

[Smallc]

The entire last paragraph.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The entire last paragraph.

There is progress! So you admit the truth of the first two but dispute the assertions of the last. Fair enough, your private life is your own. It is just that you come across in the manner that I have described.

The only thing I actually know about you is that you are interested in politics and cars and say that you are a twenty year old student. That and the fact that you said your family paid more in taxes than I did, but I notice that you said family which lead me to believe that you don't work and don't pay taxes yourself. Since you are a student, I will venture to say that you live at home instead of living on campus because you suggest that your family has money so you would not be on student loans, which probably means that you don't pay for food, utilities etc.

[Smallc]

I do dispute the first two (the GST reduction was stupid, but I consider other tax reductions that are exchanged for fees to be real and good) but I know we're not going to come to an agreement.

I worked every day for months (no exaggeration) so that I would be able to get through my 8 months of school without working so that I could focus. The two years that I went to university, I worked every weekend. During highschool, I worked every weekend. I have worked in my parents business, a school (in several capacities), a daycare, a foster home, and I'm sure other places that I'm not thinking of right now.

I seriously don't mind paying tax. I know that baffles some of you, but it's true. Sure, I want more people to work and contribute to the system, and I think we should better aim programs at that goal, but I have to live in this reality, and overall I have an excellent life.

Look, you and I don't agree, and I've called you selfish, but in truth I don't think you're a bad person at all. We simply have different views.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Smallc

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I didn't mind paying tax much either when I was in my 20s - especially when I had tuition fees that were tax deductible.

However, when I reached 30 and got a mortgage, property tax, high income tax, high insurance costs, etc etc it all gets to be a big financial burden. I would also like to retire some day, but it is hard to save anything at all when taxes eat up more than 50% of your income.

Come back and tell us how much you like paying taxes when you grow up and are not backed by your family and their business.

[capricorn]

Perhaps we shouldn't go fooling with a good thing.

Why? Because any changes could affect the life you clearly find comfortable? See, smallc, you're seeing the world through the eyes of someone who is perfectly happy the way things are. There are many who are not as fortunate as you and not everyone wants the status quo.

We're in the middle of a recession. People are more worried about the economy and jobs.

They're also worried about the potential of a government dipping into their pockets for more cash.

As for the surveys, well, people always say that they pay too much tax.

You discount the sources I provide to support my points, while you provide nothing to substantiate your arguments. I tend to agree with Argus that your emotions are often at the base of your opinions.

Anyway. I'm glad your parents did well and I sincerely hope you succeed also. From my time here, I see in you a good person. I do think you just need more life experience in order to see a bigger picture.

[Smallc]

Alright, so what should we do? By the way, almost everyone in this country has it good, but many seem to be unable to recognize it.

Edited June 6, 2009 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Also, I'm getting a little tired of the condescending attitude of people telling me that I don't know enough.

http://osgoode.yorku.ca/media2.nsf/5457ed3...33;OpenDocument

[capricorn]

Re your link. Brooks was co-chair of Bob Rae's NDP Ontario Fair Tax Commission. It's no surprise that Prof. Neil Brooks likes taxes and likes to pay taxes.

"By cutting taxes the Conservative government is taking Canada in the wrong direction," says Brooks. "It wants to make Canada more like the United States, yet our findings show that Americans bear severe social costs for living in one of the lowest taxed countries in the world."

http://www.learningwork.ca/node/160

Geez, if I didn't know better, I would have thought that came straight out of Jack Layton 's mouth.

[bush_cheney2004]

"By cutting taxes the Conservative government is taking Canada in the wrong direction," says Brooks. "It wants to make Canada more like the United States, yet our findings show that Americans bear severe social costs for living in one of the lowest taxed countries in the world."

The rejoinder to this (yet another defining UnCola reference to the USA) is that Canadians also bear severe opportunity costs is the public and private sector.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The whole key to the creation of wealth is disposable income. Sufficient disposable income allows for more than mere financial survival, it affords opportunity to invest. That investment capital is the beginning of wealth creation. Where the money goes from there determines any pattern of growth. Beyond the immediate needs of the consumer such as food and clothing the available options regarding shelter,its lease or purchase, determine personal wealth creation. Purchasing shelter represents the single greatest expenditure and a significant percentage of personal disposable income. When acquiring shelter, consumption of utilities come into play, as well financing the debt load from the purchase price of the shelter. Two entire sectors of the economy are then making money from the purchase of shelter. Two more sectors, that of construction and manufacturing are used to build and furnish the shelter. It is safe to say that these four sectors benefit and profit from the increased disposable income of the individual citizen.

While individual citizens are in fact responsible for their own wealth creation, it is also safe to say that the government is able to provide assistance in this regard by lowering taxes and providing a greater extent of disposable income. A government that was promoting wealth creation for its citizens could make interest payments on the debt required for shelter purchase tax deductible. There are many ways the government can help, but letting a citizen keep their money is the best way to fuel the economy.

[Smallc]

That's nice in theory, but in reality, it doesn't work. People need to be able to create wealth, but they also need a strong social safety net to fall back on if necessary. People are far more important than money, after all.

[Topaz]

I say enjoy 2009 tax freedom day cause 2010 will be probably not much to celebrate. The government income tax will not be getting the $15,000-20,000 that the auto sector usually pays. Wages are dropping down in this industry and same goes to the forest industry. Cutting the GST lost the government what at least a billion, they went spending on military equipment, cost of the war and the EI is draining and in the Tories book, they are going to rise the premiums to EI in 2010. I think they moved too fast on some things and not fast enough on others. So as the middle-class taxpayers loses earning power, the rich will have to fork over more money to get this country out of debt. Don't forget more Baby-boomers leaving the work place will lessen income and more money going out of the CPP and OAS. Harper's generation may not have what the BBoomers have today and he, because of his high deficit may not allow benefits for that generation or others to come .

[Smallc]

Cutting the GST lost the government what at least a billion,

$12 - 18B per year.

[benny]

June 6th this year

When someone understands what a tax is, s/he celebrates at the beginning of the year.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Welcome to Canada, the ultimate nanny state. Cradle to grave benefits for all! You don't have to work, don't worry be happy!

[Smallc]

Welcome to Canada. This is a place where we can all work to better ourselves while at the same time always knowing that we have a safety net to fall back upon. This is a place where everyone has equal opportunity and equal protection. This is the best place in the world.

[benny]

Welcome to Canada, the ultimate nanny state. Cradle to grave benefits for all! You don't have to work, don't worry be happy!

Income tax is an incentive to bestow the work/investment on those most happy to do it.

Edited June 7, 2009 by benny

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Interesting view!

My apologies folks, at this time of year I am easily riled with the entire concept of taxes.