geoffrey Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 June 6th this year: http://www.fraserinstitute.org/newsandevents/news/6736.aspx Three days earlier than last year! I still find it oddly disgusting that I work 5 full months of the year strictly for the benefit of others. I suppose I use SOME of those tax dollars that are spent (roads... and uhhh.... yup). But since the vast majority of government spending is transfers to individuals and transfers to provinces OTHER than my own, I can easily say that 4 of those 5 months are definitely working for others. It's a sad reflection on the inefficencies of government and the welfare state. Is the incentive system broken in Canada when working will cost you 40 cents on the dollar? More if your married and a second earner entering the workforce. My tax freedom day will be spent writing a level of the CFA exam, in order for me to earn more money to contribute (unwillingly) to others in Canada. What a generous guy I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Simply put, the CTF is lying. We only pay overall 33% tax as a percentage of GDP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...rcentage_of_GDP Some of us realize the society that paying our taxes has helped to build. Anyone who thinks there is great deal wrong with Canada really doesn't know much about tre rest of the world, and really, that's their problem. In a soceity, we have a duty to the other people. You don't simply get to pay your way, you do your part to continue this place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am still waiting for my refund! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Simply put, the CTF is lying. We only pay overall 33% tax as a percentage of GDP. That doesn't mean you pay 33% of your earnings. Alot of GDP is tax exempt, so that's not a reasonable calculation. Individuals in Canada do not earn 100% of GDP, so you can't use that number. I don't make a huge amount of money, and I can tell you my personal tax burden (in Alberta, the happiest tax place in Canada) is considerably over 40%. Some of us realize the society that paying our taxes has helped to build. Anyone who thinks there is great deal wrong with Canada really doesn't know much about tre rest of the world, and really, that's their problem. In a soceity, we have a duty to the other people. You don't simply get to pay your way, you do your part to continue this place. Do you pay taxes? Or are you a student? The reality is that we pay too much in taxes. There are important things that taxes support and fund. But the vast majority of taxes are used in transfers to individuals. The social support system has grown so huge that many don't have to work and can easily feed off the ignorance of others. Society also has a duty to me to responsibly spend my tax dollars. Tax spending should be to the benefit of the country, not to individual interests. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is in Canada. Anyways, I find the only people that are happy about taxes are those that don't pay them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 That doesn't mean you pay 33% of your earnings. Alot of GDP is tax exempt, so that's not a reasonable calculation. Individuals in Canada do not earn 100% of GDP, so you can't use that number. I don't make a huge amount of money, and I can tell you my personal tax burden (in Alberta, the happiest tax place in Canada) is considerably over 40%. Do you pay taxes? Or are you a student? The reality is that we pay too much in taxes. There are important things that taxes support and fund. But the vast majority of taxes are used in transfers to individuals. The social support system has grown so huge that many don't have to work and can easily feed off the ignorance of others. Society also has a duty to me to responsibly spend my tax dollars. Tax spending should be to the benefit of the country, not to individual interests. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is in Canada. Anyways, I find the only people that are happy about taxes are those that don't pay them. Income taxes are the wrong way to go. Nobody likes them, but we never do anything about it. Perhaps all of this new debt the government is taking on will wake a few people up when their taxes go up to pay for this debt and their services are cut to fall into line with the decreased revenues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 That doesn't mean you pay 33% of your earnings. Alot of GDP is tax exempt, so that's not a reasonable calculation. Individuals in Canada do not earn 100% of GDP, so you can't use that number. Canadians 'work for the government' for 33% of the year. It doesn't matter how much tax each individual person pays, thhe simple reality is that we pay 33% tax overall. Also, there are many people that are less selfish and appreciate the society that paying taxes has built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Society also has a duty to me to responsibly spend my tax dollars. Tax spending should be to the benefit of the country, not to individual interests. Unfortunately, that's not the way it is in Canada. That's simply an opinion on your part. I gind a soceity that ensures that no one has to starve to be very beneficial. You owe a debt to Canada, and you pay it...in taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck U. Farlie Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I don't think any one is suggesting that we should not pay any tax at all, but I think it is justified to complain when our taxes are grossly wasted and/or managed inefficiently. Our taxes could be significantly lower if the money was properly managed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 What is 'properly managed'? Do you have evidence of large amounts of waste? You not liking a certain program doesn't mean that the program is wasteful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am still waiting for my refund! Me too Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 My tax freedom day will be spent writing a level of the CFA exam, in order for me to earn more money to contribute (unwillingly) to others in Canada. What a generous guy I am. You could always leave Canada for flat tax Hong Kong or the UAE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 What is 'properly managed'? Do you have evidence of large amounts of waste? Yep. It's called the gun registry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Yes, that went over budget, but the police seem to like the program. $2B over a large number of years isn't going to make a large difference in your tax bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck U. Farlie Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 While not all of my following examples will be at the federal level, they are still funded from our taxes: eHealth, adscam, human rights commissions Also, nevermind that I have worked for the gov't before - Ministry of Transportation here in Ontario - in the regional office in North Bay to be precise, and I have seen the gross waste that are (many, not all) public servants. Their positions accomplished little of anything - just bureaucratic procedures to take up time. I have friends that have/are mayors or councilors in small towns in Ontario. I've seen and heard how they have wasted countless tax payer dollars on frivolous and useless expenditures. Take a look at Toronto City Council if you want an example of waste. One of these same friends is now working for the Toronto and area Conservation Authority... and the wasted money they toss around is unbelievable too. He is the first to admit that they must spend all of the money that is budgeted to them, even if unwisely spent, or they won't get an increase the following year. How about all this money that was given/ is going to be given to GM and Chrysler? They are sure spending a lot of money to save a small number of jobs... they would have been better off to give the employees the money directly, or to provide incentives for the rest of us to buy new cars.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 eHealth isn't a waste, but it seems to have problems at the top. Many of the things you have cited are either programs that have gone bad, but did have a purpose, or progarms or positions that you don't like. Could some efficiencies be found? Sure. Will it amount to a great deal of money? Probably not. Conservatives always seem to have this belief that a system that works well overall is broken. I simply don't buy it. In Canada, we get large return for our tax dollars, about 15,000 per year in service on average according to a recent study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 In Canada, we get large return for our tax dollars, about 15,000 per year in service on average according to a recent study. So what happens when one pays more then $15,000 in taxes? Do you tell them they're getting a large return on their tax dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 People who make more, pay more, because they can afford more. It probably reasons that they also need less service most of the time, but that's irrelivant. This isn't a conservative or libertarian paradise....too bad, it was never really set up that way. This country occupies the midedle ground in most metrics in the world....except when it comes to quality of life....then we're at or near the top. I don't think we could possibly achieve a better balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) People who make more, pay more, because they can afford more. It probably reasons that they also need less service most of the time, but that's irrelivant. This isn't a conservative or libertarian paradise....too bad, it was never really set up that way. This country occupies the midedle ground in most metrics in the world....except when it comes to quality of life....then we're at or near the top. I don't think we could possibly achieve a better balance. Then don't tell people who make $50,000 or more they're getting a good return on their tax dollars. Edited June 5, 2009 by Shady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Then don't tell people who make $50,000 or more they're getting a good return on their tax dollars. I suspect that any amount of tax would have you in opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 That's simply an opinion on your part. I gind a soceity that ensures that no one has to starve to be very beneficial. You owe a debt to Canada, and you pay it...in taxes. That's absurd! I owe Canada nothing! I employ Canadians and I've paid taxes for several years, from the first year I legally could. Canada owes me! Why the hell do I owe Canada? And why do I owe Canada more than anyone else? What a ridiculous concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 That's absurd! I owe Canada nothing! I employ Canadians and I've paid taxes for several years, from the first year I legally could. Canada owes me!Why the hell do I owe Canada? And why do I owe Canada more than anyone else? What a ridiculous concept. ...ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. (cue bush_cheney2004 in 5,4,3,2... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I understand the need for a revenue stream to pay for the programs and services that citizens want. What I do not understand is the sheer number of citizens employed by the system. The reason government run operations are so inefficient is due to the immense demographic known as the bureaucracy. There are far too many fingers in the pie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydraboss Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Do you pay taxes? Or are you a student? Geoff, you know the kid will never answer questions like this. Anyways, I find the only people that are happy about taxes are those that don't pay them. And this is why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 That's absurd! I owe Canada nothing! I employ Canadians and I've paid taxes for several years, from the first year I legally could. Canada owes me! Canada is the society that allowed you to accumulate wealth...you owe it much. And why do I owe Canada more than anyone else? What a ridiculous concept. Taxes are based on income...you make more, you pay more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Canada is the society that allowed you to accumulate wealth...you owe it much.Taxes are based on income...you make more, you pay more. You are off your rocker. The truth is that the more money you make, the greater the availability of DEDUCTIONS from gross income. You have to have money to take advantage of the tax credits and deductions that are in fact available to ALL citizens. So the reality is that only some citizens are able to take advantage of these breaks, and the ones most able to afford to pay are also the ones that are able to pay less. Canada is the society that allowed you to accumulate wealth...you owe it much. The concept that this society allowed me to do anything is reprehensible to me. The thought that I owe this society anything at all is even more so. Your entire focus has a fiscal tag line to it, as if society and life itself was nothing more than dollars and cents. Humans have responsibilities within societies, that I can agree to. What I cannot agree to is being indebted to society or having society indebted to me. Unless of course I break the law, which is my covenant with society, then, and only then would I submit to the judgment of society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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