CBC, VIA Rail considered for auction block: Documents

Smallc · June 1, 2009

OTTAWA — The federal Department of Finance has flagged several prominent Crown corporations as "not self-sustaining," including the CBC, VIA Rail and the National Arts Centre, and has identified them as entities that could be sold as part of the government's asset review, newly released documents show.
In its fiscal update last November, the government announced that it would launch a review of its Crown assets, including so-called enterprise Crown corporations, real estate and "other holdings."

Finance Department documents, obtained by Canwest News Service under the Access to Information Act, reveal that the review will focus on enterprise Crown corporations, which are not financially dependent on parliamentary subsidies. Such corporations include the Royal Canadian Mint and Ridley Terminals, which is a coal-shipping terminal in Prince Rupert, B.C.

But the documents also reveal that the government will consider privatizing Crown corporations that require public subsidies to stay afloat.

CBC, VIA Rail considered for auction block: Documents

Hmmmm

Smallc · June 1, 2009

From the article:

Under the Financial Administration Act, Parliament would have to approve the privatization of any Crown corporation. "It's hard to believe that some of these sales would go forward in a minority Parliament," said Vining.

Thank God.

daniel · June 2, 2009

If anybody's going to claim that the private sector runs things better than the public, take a look at Air Canada and then the sub-prime fiasco down south.

Moonbox · June 2, 2009

If anybody's going to claim that the private sector runs things better than the public, take a look at Air Canada and then the sub-prime fiasco down south.

You could also take a look at the USSR, Korea/China and see how well the economies run there.

The reason why the private sector runs things better than the public is that the private sector doesn't sustain losers. The smarter and better run companies survive.

Before you get into the sub-prime fiasco, it also might be useful to note it was a result of an entire culture, rather than just a few greedy executives. Western society at large was stuck in a habit of over-spending and over-leveraging. The government encouraged it. It wasn't the public or the private sector that failed us there. It was both and you can lay the blame on hundreds of millions of people.

For the record, I'm THRILLED at the idea of CBC being sold off. It's a failure. The fact that it's a failure is a testament to how little people watch it. Other than Hockey Night in Canada, it's a waste of a channel.

I don't really know much about VIA rail, but I don't really see the need for it.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Moonbox

Smallc · June 2, 2009

I can almost guarantee that the CBC will not be sold...VIA...whatever...although I am a little nervous about sales of Canada Post or the Mint.

daniel · June 2, 2009

...
The reason why the private sector runs things better than the public is that the private sector doesn't sustain losers....

Today's recession has been brought to you by:

1) the private sector's solution to low-income housing;

2) the CEO's executive bonuses of their failed corporations

and by

3) consumers like you who religiously listen to the financial experts as they keep their books cooked

Edited June 2, 2009 by daniel

g_bambino · June 2, 2009

I'm THRILLED at the idea of CBC being sold off. It's a failure.

That depends on what you think it should be a success at. In my opinion: Idiot box sitcoms and "reality" shows? Certainly not. Canadian documentaries, investigative journalism, news, sports, kids' programming, and film? Yes. And follow the BBC's lead, for god's sake! That's what originally inspired the CBC, but obviously the latter veered away from and fell behind the former at some point along the way.

Smallc · June 2, 2009

Yes...the CBC is good at some things...Radio and News and kids programming...and without politics I'm not sure how they'll be at...well...politics...but their creative programming needs reform. Their news department is undergoing reorganization right now, so I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Smallc

Smallc · June 2, 2009

BTW, according to some numbers from the CBC and the government that were talked about during the job cuts, at least 20M people use some form of the CBC weekly.

ToadBrother · June 2, 2009

You could also take a look at the USSR, Korea/China and see how well the economies run there.

Just because so-called "planned" economies suck doesn't mean that having publicly-owned corporations is a bad thing, per se.

The reason why the private sector runs things better than the public is that the private sector doesn't sustain losers. The smarter and better run companies survive.

Yes, that's why CEOs who torpedo the companies they run get golden parachutes. Large corporate entities are every bit as top-heavy with bureaucracy as any government.

Before you get into the sub-prime fiasco, it also might be useful to note it was a result of an entire culture, rather than just a few greedy executives. Western society at large was stuck in a habit of over-spending and over-leveraging. The government encouraged it. It wasn't the public or the private sector that failed us there. It was both and you can lay the blame on hundreds of millions of people.

Agreed, but it's pretty much the example that disproves your whole point. On the one hand, the corporate world doesn't want government interference (regulation). On the other, they want us to save them from themselves. It seems the private sector wants to have its cake and eat it to.

For the record, I'm THRILLED at the idea of CBC being sold off. It's a failure. The fact that it's a failure is a testament to how little people watch it. Other than Hockey Night in Canada, it's a waste of a channel.

TV viewing numbers are collapsing on all fronts. Strikes me that TV in general is in decline, so picking on the CBC seems a little odd.

I don't really know much about VIA rail, but I don't really see the need for it.

Which is a pity, because other parts of the world have government-owned or at least subsidized passenger rail, simply because it's a much more rational way of moving large numbers of people from place to place.

Smallc · June 2, 2009

The problem with VIA is that it's expensive. I'd love to take a ride if it weren't.

ToadBrother · June 2, 2009

That depends on what you think it should be a success at. In my opinion: Idiot box sitcoms and "reality" shows? Certainly not. Canadian documentaries, investigative journalism, news, sports, kids' programming, and film? Yes. And follow the BBC's lead, for god's sake! That's what originally inspired the CBC, but obviously the latter veered away from and fell behind the former at some point along the way.

And believe me, British Conservatives despise the BBC just as much as ours hate the CBC. Quite frankly, I think the only thing conservatives would be happy with would be a 24-hour-a-day "Conservatives are great, everybody else is socialist devil-worshipping baby eaters."

Moonbox · June 2, 2009

Just because so-called "planned" economies suck doesn't mean that having publicly-owned corporations is a bad thing, per se.

You're right to a certain extent. I was just trying to provide counter-examples to a weak post claiming that Air Canada means privatization is bad.

Yes, that's why CEOs who torpedo the companies they run get golden parachutes. Large corporate entities are every bit as top-heavy with bureaucracy as any government.

Some are, and some aren't. All governments, on the other hand, are. The golden parachute, however, is a good example of where the private sector can go terribly wrong. Total Free Market is a terrible situation, but private corporations are still going to be generally more efficient by their very nature. Large corporate entities that become too top heavy eventually fall unless they can keep trim. GM is a perfect example. That doesn't happen with governments. It's evolution.

Agreed, but it's pretty much the example that disproves your whole point. On the one hand, the corporate world doesn't want government interference (regulation). On the other, they want us to save them from themselves. It seems the private sector wants to have its cake and eat it to.

Government regulation doesn't make a sector public. Banking in Canada is heavily regulated yet still remains private, profitable and efficient. What foreign financial industries did in the last 5 years was, in my opinion, nothing short of criminal. In my opinion it was a total lack of government oversight and regulation that led to this mess. It was inevitable that this would happen because there was nothing that said these greedy fools couldn't do it. They should be in jail and maybe these sort of regulations will come, but once again regulation doesn't rule out private enterprise.

TV viewing numbers are collapsing on all fronts. Strikes me that TV in general is in decline, so picking on the CBC seems a little odd.

The CBC has ALWAYS been HIGHLY unprofitable. The recession is not a good excuse for a terrible business model if you perform terrible during good times like the CBC has.

Which is a pity, because other parts of the world have government-owned or at least subsidized passenger rail, simply because it's a much more rational way of moving large numbers of people from place to place.

It works better in areas with centralized populations (as in not Canada). Even so, if there was demand for such a service, the private sector would certainly provide it.

Smallc · June 2, 2009

The CBC has ALWAYS been HIGHLY unprofitable.

The goal of the CBC has never been to be profitable.

Even so, if there was demand for such a service, the private sector would certainly provide it.

There is and they don't. People all across the country listen to CBC Radio...people across the country watch CBC TV (in smaller numbers) and many many people use CBC.ca.

Canadians disagree with you in huge numbers when it comes to the CBC, so any fight to privatize it is a losing battle.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Smallc

Battletoads · June 2, 2009

One only need to look as far as BC to see the failure that privitization brings.

We use to have the third cheapest power on the continent. BC Hydro provided numerous jobs and was a net contributor to the governments revenues.

The key phrase is "use to" as once privatization hit that went belly up.

And then there is BC rail....

Bryan · June 2, 2009

I think they SHOULD sell the CBC, but they won't.

That is just a list of the government's major assets, that could fetch some coin IF sold.

g_bambino · June 2, 2009

And believe me, British Conservatives despise the BBC just as much as ours hate the CBC. Quite frankly, I think the only thing conservatives would be happy with would be a 24-hour-a-day "Conservatives are great, everybody else is socialist devil-worshipping baby eaters."

:lol:

To be honest, I've never heard a disparaging word about the BBC. But, I suppose I shouldn't be so naieve as to think it doesn't have detractors. Still, given the global reach and success of the BBC, one wonders what anyone could really find fault with.

Smallc · June 2, 2009

Oh, I've heard people find fault with it before. It doesn't matter to some that it is the largest news gathering organization in the world and the one with perhaps the most comprehensive and balanced reporting.

Jerry J. Fortin · June 2, 2009

Selling public assets when the lowest possible value could be put on them is the hallmark of right wing governments. Alberta faced that reality when we "privatized" the natural gas utility company we owned, and the telephone companies we owned, and the electricity generating companies we owned. We went from having the cheapest utilities in the nation to one of the most expensive. Meanwhile these once former crown corporations have made 100's of billions in profits.

Topaz · June 2, 2009

This is the Tories answer to getting out of debt, have a yard sale?? If we start selling crown corporations or other crown properties, we won't have a Canada but then, maybe that's the plan. This govt answers to problems they don't know how to fix is sell!! I like the CBC and do watch some of its products. As far as VIA Rail, wasn't there talk about a speed train from Windsor to Montreal? Perhaps its just that all TALK and no action and I think the Museum of Art is on the selling block which isn't surprising since we know what Harper think of museum and Art!

M.Dancer · June 2, 2009

If anybody's going to claim that the private sector runs things better than the public, take a look at Air Canada and then the sub-prime fiasco down south.

or...

If anyone's going to claim that the public sector runs things better than for profit, take a look at the CBC and then VIA rail.

Topaz · June 2, 2009

or...
If anyone's going to claim that the public sector runs things better than for profit, take a look at the CBC and then VIA rail.

Dancer, wouldn't you agree, that if these businesses aren't doing well, then the ministers who are responsible for them aren't doing his/her job? All Moore says is that the Tories are givng more money and Baird says we are getting the job done! I say NOT!

Jerry J. Fortin · June 2, 2009

There are screw ups everywhere. Look at GM, the size of that corporate Titanic is amazing, yet they ran it into a financial iceberg anyway. Wait till the electric cars start full production and watch the oil companies start to crater.

The government does not lay claim to owning all the idiots, just a lot of them.

Smallc · June 2, 2009

Electric cars start full production next year.

Moonbox · June 2, 2009

The goal of the CBC has never been to be profitable.

I was merely responding to the other poster saying I was picking on CBC in a time when all stations are having problems breaking even. Like I said, CBC has always been unprofitable. It's always been unprofitable because it's always been unpopular.

There is and they don't. People all across the country listen to CBC Radio...people across the country watch CBC TV (in smaller numbers) and many many people use CBC.ca.
Canadians disagree with you in huge numbers when it comes to the CBC, so any fight to privatize it is a losing battle.

Check your logic on that one. If CBC was as popular as you say it is, it wouldn't be in the red every year. They earn revenue from advertising just like any station. I'm not saying people don't watch it. I'm arguing that it's questionable policy for the VAST AND OVERWHELMING majority of Canadians who don't watch the CBC to have to subsidize other people's entertainment.