The BIBLE and SCIENCE

[Oleg Bach]

crap, I just realized I forget to buy a lottomax - 43 million I think.

Get another one smart ass - You with your quantum mathematical skill should be able to win at will - but the money will ruin your life - so send me a mill and I will be your friend - till the money is gone.

[GostHacked]

Kind of late, its part of a US Patent. I would be subject to a lawsuit by a lawyer. Of course with all your education you knew that right? Well, no one said education makes you smart. You are an example of that.

Lots of people have lots of patents for lots of things.

http://www.patentoftheweek.com/1996-Now/index.html

Here's an assertion that neutrino transmission will have a spectrum 10^10 times the radio spectrum. That's hardly ten bits. The only one who is repeating himself is you. Look in the mirror? You could be turning blue. It's ok, breath.....

From your article, they do say it is all hypothetical. So it's a WIP.

[kimmy]

Let's be clear on something:

the US Patent Office does not make any decisions on the scientific validity or technological feasibility of a patent application.

The US Patent Office decides whether the idea is covered by existing patents, and whether it is unique enough to be patentable.

The US Patent Office is not in the business of scientific research, nor do they make any claims to be.

If you want to learn about neutrinos, go to Fermilab or CERN, not the US Patent Office.

Google for "crazy patents" and you will get a whole wealth of side-splitting humor, and the claims in that Neutrino Matrix patent are laugh-out-loud funny. whowhere himself was talking about carrier frequency earlier on in this thread, so even he has the starting point to unravel why phase modulation of neutrinos is a nonsensical idea.

-k

[kimmy]

I am not sure. When CR says 'electron soup' I don't see the amorphous state even if that is what he means.

(...)

I see CR's "is" as a simpler expression of simultaneity nothing more. Kind of like those independent processors organized into a network of sorts.

Apparently you've decided that the only way you can continue to advocate for c-r is to completely disregard what he's actually said.

Since we have agreed on context, then I don't think it is a matter of selecting one concept at the expense of another. That is, it's not a contest.

Confronted with mutually exclusive ideas, yes, it's a contest. They can't both be right. You have to pick a winner.

The notion that each level has some sort of coding/sending & reception/decoding mechanism that interacts with the level above and the level below until the 'message' is sent/received along its most basic carrier path.

And why do you consider that to be "key"? It seems pretty rudimentary to me, not anything that puts us on new ground in this thread.

But that is a conundrum isn't it? Because humans are knowingly exchanging ideas through photons and electrons already. Yours is a problem of media.

I've never disputed that photons and electrons are part of the "stacked communications path" as you put it. However, we're in control of both ends of the "stack". Don't want to transmit your thoughts to me? Easily done. Don't want to receive my thoughts? Easily done as well.

When c-r is talking about quantum mechanics being a proof of god and spiritual connection, do you really think he's describing television?

I don't think that magnetic influences on animals is pseudoscience, so we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Magnetic influence on animals may occur, some animals at least... but it's (a) a one-way communication path, and ( contains very little information. What can animals learn from being sensitive to magnetic fields? Which way is north. That's basically about the extent of it.

I believe the modulation rate of the earth's magnetic field is on the order of eons... so while some animals may have a functional receiver, the information capacity of this channel would be on the order of a iota of a bit per recipient lifetime, if there were somehow information being modulated onto it.

Why "sum?"

How could it be anything other?

Are you saying the receiver could somehow look at quantum noise and determine which random processes contain information and which do not?

Perhaps you could elaborate on that thought.

-k

[Wild Bill]

Let's be clear on something:

the US Patent Office does not make any decisions on the scientific validity or technological feasibility of a patent application.

The US Patent Office decides whether the idea is covered by existing patents, and whether it is unique enough to be patentable.

The US Patent Office is not in the business of scientific research, nor do they make any claims to be.

If you want to learn about neutrinos, go to Fermilab or CERN, not the US Patent Office.

-k

Wish it were true about their Patent Office, Kimmy! Those of us in the technical side of guitar amps know differently.

There is a designer with a large guitar amp company who has actually successfully patented vacuum tube circuits and applications that have been around since the 1930's! Apparently, rather than spend the money and resources of patent searches and technical decisions of something in vintage electronics the Office just rubberstamped his applications. The idea is that players "in the real world" can spend the money on lawyers and fight it out in the courts.

You can guess how this has worked out. Some small "boutique" amplifier maker in Smalltown, USA gets a letter from the Big Meany Amp Company, claiming his circuit is infringing on their patent. Now, any tech who looked at the circuits would dismiss this as ridiculous. Besides, those patents from the 30's and 40's have long since lapsed into public domain. Doesn't matter!

You see, the key point is that BMAC has lots of money for a court battle and the little boutique guy hasn't! He is absolutely in the right yet because he can't afford to fight he has to "cave" and stop using that circuit.

This perversion of the justice system is often found in other areas, even right here in Canada. It's not enough to be in the right sometimes. You have to be able to afford to fight or you lose!

Edited February 20, 2010 by Wild Bill

[whowhere]

Let's be clear on something:

the US Patent Office does not make any decisions on the scientific validity or technological feasibility of a patent application.

The US Patent Office decides whether the idea is covered by existing patents, and whether it is unique enough to be patentable.

The US Patent Office is not in the business of scientific research, nor do they make any claims to be.

If you want to learn about neutrinos, go to Fermilab or CERN, not the US Patent Office.

Google for "crazy patents" and you will get a whole wealth of side-splitting humor, and the claims in that Neutrino Matrix patent are laugh-out-loud funny. whowhere himself was talking about carrier frequency earlier on in this thread, so even he has the starting point to unravel why phase modulation of neutrinos is a nonsensical idea.

-k

I provided a link to Nasa and the University of Virginia, that's not credible enough. Somehow unaccomplished Canadians from a Country that is resource economy relying on commodities sold to the world to get by is more informed than Nasa and the University of Virginia, right.... keep spinning the dementia.

[whowhere]

Apparently you've decided that the only way you can continue to advocate for c-r is to completely disregard what he's actually said.

Confronted with mutually exclusive ideas, yes, it's a contest. They can't both be right. You have to pick a winner.

And why do you consider that to be "key"? It seems pretty rudimentary to me, not anything that puts us on new ground in this thread.

I've never disputed that photons and electrons are part of the "stacked communications path" as you put it. However, we're in control of both ends of the "stack". Don't want to transmit your thoughts to me? Easily done. Don't want to receive my thoughts? Easily done as well.

When c-r is talking about quantum mechanics being a proof of god and spiritual connection, do you really think he's describing television?

Magnetic influence on animals may occur, some animals at least... but it's (a) a one-way communication path, and ( contains very little information. What can animals learn from being sensitive to magnetic fields? Which way is north. That's basically about the extent of it.

I believe the modulation rate of the earth's magnetic field is on the order of eons... so while some animals may have a functional receiver, the information capacity of this channel would be on the order of a iota of a bit per recipient lifetime, if there were somehow information being modulated onto it.

How could it be anything other?

Are you saying the receiver could somehow look at quantum noise and determine which random processes contain information and which do not?

Perhaps you could elaborate on that thought.

-k

Rather than repost information presented, scientists are claiming billions of neutrinos are passing through each and everyone one of us. Once a neutrino is transceived the energy/information of the Neutrino is absorbed by the receiver. You are so fixated on your narrow view that humans are limited to your categorization of the senses they are somehow unable to absorb Neutrinos and interpret and assimilate them. Maybe Science doesn't have the means to interpret neutrinos yet, but that does not mean the unconscious mind of the human body doesn't. Your position has been defeated unless you can prove Neutrinos are not being assimilated and interpreted by the Human body. You can't unless you can prove neutrinos are NOT flowing through the human body.

Neutrinos is Radiation. As you pointed out I suggested unknown frequencies were being used and interpreted by the human mind, perhaps. However, I also posted information on Radiation was what was being emitted from the earth which led to a post where I crossed paths with Quantum mechanics.

Could Neutrinos be the medium of all inspired human experiences, It appears possible given the torrent of them flowing. I also put forward a post outlining the Human Body is also an emitter of neutrinos. It is possible these Neutrinos could be the communication link between man and a Superconscious/God!

[jbg]

I have a degree in Engineering Physics from the University of British Columbia, and a Master's degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics with specialization in Plasma Science from the University of Washington.

Don't feed the troll.

[GostHacked]

The photon is still a faster way of sending communications. The neutrino has a slight mass and moves close to but not the speed of light. A photon is already travelling at the speed of light.

Rather than repost information presented, scientists are claiming billions of neutrinos are passing through each and everyone one of us. Once a neutrino is transceived the energy/information of the Neutrino is absorbed by the receiver.

If billions of them pass through us every second, what is the method in which the body absorbs neutrinos? SNO does not stop neutrinos either, it just detects them. Then they go on their merry way.

You are so fixated on your narrow view that humans are limited to your categorization of the senses they are somehow unable to absorb Neutrinos and interpret and assimilate them.Maybe Science doesn't have the means to interpret neutrinos yet, but that does not mean the unconscious mind of the human body doesn't. Your position has been defeated unless you can prove Neutrinos are not being assimilated and interpreted by the Human body. You can't unless you can prove neutrinos are NOT flowing through the human body.

To prove that neutrinos can be assimilated by the human body, you first must prove that they don't get absorbed by the human body. I am missing something here. Am I reading this right?

[whowhere]

The photon is still a faster way of sending communications. The neutrino has a slight mass and moves close to but not the speed of light. A photon is already travelling at the speed of light.

If billions of them pass through us every second, what is the method in which the body absorbs neutrinos? SNO does not stop neutrinos either, it just detects them. Then they go on their merry way.

To prove that neutrinos can be assimilated by the human body, you first must prove that they don't get absorbed by the human body. I am missing something here. Am I reading this right?

Once again you position man as has having all the answers and nature as the benefactor of man's wisdom. What would nature have done if it were not for mankind? It's not like the planet was not inhabited by dinosaurs and other prehistoric life which was wiped out and then re-established to bring forward mankind. Once you have learned to ride a bike its second nature. Nature has wiped out life once and has come back. As they say first times luck, second times coincidence, third times skill. How was life able to restore itself? How did life establish itself in the first place? You have those answers? Neutrinos are supposedly flowing through earth unrestricted. They have been hypothesized by scientist as potential mediums to carry information. They travel nearly at the speed of light and they are minute matter. The neutrino is has also been hypothesized to release its energy and information once absorbed. If you want a science only thread you should exit because I only see science as a tool along the lines of how I see my car parked in the driveway. The car makes my life more convenient so goes it with science. Like the car, science is irrelevant to "LIFE", Life just is.

[Guest TrueMetis]

It's not like the planet was not inhabited by dinosaurs and other prehistoric life which was wiped out and then re-established to bring forward mankind. Once you have learned to ride a bike its second nature. Nature has wiped out life once and has come back. As they say first times luck, second times coincidence, third times skill. How was life able to restore itself? How did life establish itself in the first place? You have those answers?

You make it sound like life was completely wiped out. Not once since life began on earth has there been no life on earth, so there was no need for it to "re-establish" itself since it was never disestablished. As for how life began see Urey-Miller experiment and all the updates in the last 50 years.

[GostHacked]

Once again you position man as has having all the answers and nature as the benefactor of man's wisdom. What would nature have done if it were not for mankind?

Where have I ever said that in this thread?

It's not like the planet was not inhabited by dinosaurs and other prehistoric life which was wiped out and then re-established to bring forward mankind.[

What has this gotta do with neutrinos?

Once you have learned to ride a bike its second nature. Nature has wiped out life once and has come back. As they say first times luck, second times coincidence, third times skill. How was life able to restore itself? How did life establish itself in the first place? You have those answers? Neutrinos are supposedly flowing through earth unrestricted. They have been hypothesized by scientist as potential mediums to carry information. They travel nearly at the speed of light and they are minute matter. The neutrino is has also been hypothesized to release its energy and information once absorbed. If you want a science only thread you should exit because I only see science as a tool along the lines of how I see my car parked in the driveway. The car makes my life more convenient so goes it with science. Like the car, science is irrelevant to "LIFE", Life just is.

Off on a tangent now are you? Answer me this

I asked

to prove that neutrinos can be assimilated by the human body, you first must prove that they don't get absorbed by the human body. I am missing something here. Am I reading this right?

I did not understand your statement. Could you clear that up for me?

[whowhere]

Where have I ever said that in this thread?

What has this gotta do with neutrinos?

Off on a tangent now are you? Answer me this

I asked

I did not understand your statement. Could you clear that up for me?

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6891310/description.html

We believe that [infra red light, photon light, ultraviolet light, Xray light and neutrino light are all vibrations of the electromagnetic field, differing only in their frequency

I also believe what they believe maybe the case. This supports my earlier thread position that "life" on earth is communicating on carrier frequencies undetectable by man's current technology. Unfortunate for all life on earth at present you will not live long enough for science (which it will eventually map out the spectrum, I am confident in that) to find God's/Life's frequencies.

neutrinos pick up information regarding material, including living organisms, as they travel throughout the universe. This can explain where the information came from that produces living organisms in hot lava coming from a volcano. It also explains the emergence of life forms around hot vents coming from deep in the Pacific Ocean surrounded by sea water that is totally devoid of life. A further application is in the formation of a set of related microorganisms that produce methane, gasoline, kerosene, light oil, heavy oil and finally tar in oil wells that are pumped out too rapidly for the organisms to get down from the surface. It has long been recognized that there were not enough dinosaurs, etc., to rot and produce Earth's petroleum. Basic elements appear to come from nuclear reactions at the core of the Earth These seep upward with the neutrinos telling them how to combine.

Does this not imply that knowledge of all life forms of the universe is contained in the neutrino spectrum? Just how neutrinos effect the intelligent combination of elements into life forms is left for future research.

Interesting hypothesis I must say.

It is known that hydrocarbons are formed by a spectrum of bacteria that form methane from atoms, gasoline from methane, oils from gasoline, and tars from oils. The basic atoms required are apparently a product of nuclear reactions deep within the Earth. Again all these results may be coded in neutrino information which drive the reactions.

Do we know how birds fly? Spiders crawl up walls, How I am able to wiggle my toes and form a grip with my hand? This suggests that life on earth is not necessarily isolated and separated from the other planets and other Galaxies. Somehow neutrinos are coded with DNA like information which has invoked bacteria to create Petroleum. (Sounds like a process similar to setting yeast to work to ferment fruit juice into wine.)

In case simpletons like JBG has not understood the crux of this patent and where its headed I would say

look at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6244778.stm

Peanut butter is being turned into diamonds by scientists with a technique that harnesses pressures higher than those found at the centre of the earth.

As it has been with diamonds so it will be done with OIL. It sounds like Neutrinos will be the catalyst, the match that will strike fire/create oil.

How long will this take to happen?

[GostHacked]

Neutrino coded with DNA ?

How can something that is smaller than DNA be made up OF DNA ?

And you can make diamons out of anything cabon based. That means every living thing on this planet can be turned into a diamond.

[whowhere]

Neutrino coded with DNA ?

How can something that is smaller than DNA be made up OF DNA ?

And you can make diamons out of anything cabon based. That means every living thing on this planet can be turned into a diamond.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogous

analogous

a·nal·o·gous   /əˈnæləgəs/ Show Spelled[uh-nal-uh-guhs] Show IPA

–adjective

1.having analogy; corresponding in some particular: A brain and a computer are analogous.

2.Biology. corresponding in function, but not evolved from corresponding organs, as the wings of a bee and those of a hummingbird.

[kimmy]

I provided a link to Nasa and the University of Virginia, that's not credible enough. Somehow unaccomplished Canadians from a Country that is resource economy relying on commodities sold to the world to get by is more informed than Nasa and the University of Virginia, right.... keep spinning the dementia.

I have no problem with anything that your NASA and Professor Huber have said on the subject. I have a problem with the claims of US Patent 6891310. That patent isn't held by NASA or the University of Virginia. It's held by "Bob Beckwith" of Clearwater Florida, a guy who apparently thinks he knows a lot more about neutrinos than NASA, Professor Huber, SNO, CERN, Fermilab, or any other research institutions who have been studying neutrinos for a long time and yet have made no claims at all about neutrinos being able to carry information from organic matter all over the universe.

Rather than repost information presented, scientists are claiming billions of neutrinos are passing through each and everyone one of us.

Yes, all of the credible science agrees on that much.

Once a neutrino is transceived the energy/information of the Neutrino is absorbed by the receiver. You are so fixated on your narrow view that humans are limited to your categorization of the senses they are somehow unable to absorb Neutrinos and interpret and assimilate them.

But here you have left the credible scientists behind and are going it alone, just you and "Bob Beckwith".

Professor Huber proposes that we may someday be able to transmit and detect neutrinos reliably enough to form a rudimentary low-bandwith communication link, but that's far far different from the claim that neutrinos are picking up information from everything they pass and carry that information with them to be received elsewhere in useful form.

In fact, if you spend a few minutes reading through the patent "Bob Beckwith" received, you'll find out how truly fantastical some of his claims are:

He:

-rejects the "Big Bang".

-rejects the existence of "dark matter".

-argues against the concept of curved space

-claims the universe is an infinite, flat, straight grid of "force tubes".

Do you think a retired (and now deceased) engineer who spent his working life on electrical distribution and the power grid knew more about the origin and structure of the universe and about general relativity than the scientists who have devoted their entire lives to this topic?

Maybe Science doesn't have the means to interpret neutrinos yet, but that does not mean the unconscious mind of the human body doesn't.

What possible reason is there to think the human mind is receiving information in the form of neutrinos?

What possible reason is there to think that neutrinos convey any information worth receiving?

Your position has been defeated unless you can prove Neutrinos are not being assimilated and interpreted by the Human body. You can't unless you can prove neutrinos are NOT flowing through the human body.

Neutrinos are flowing through the human body. But my position is not defeated unless you can demonstrate two things:

-a reason to think the human mind is capable of receiving neutrinos.

-a reason to think information can be recovered from the neutrinos we might receive.

You can't.

Maybe some day Professor Huber will succeed in building a giant neutrino flashlight and a submarine-mountable neutrino detector, and will show that we can send Morse Code or OOK-modulated signals using neutrinos. Good for him. Still wouldn't prove that human minds could be receiving neutrinos, or that there is any information we could be receiving from the neutrinos around us.

Could Neutrinos be the medium of all inspired human experiences, It appears possible given the torrent of them flowing.

hey, maybe gravity is the medium of all human experience. We all transmit gravity. We all receive gravity. Hey, maybe communication is taking place through the medium of gravity right now. I certainly can't prove it isn't. Can you?

Hey, maybe methane is the secret medium that inspires human experience. We can transmit information using methane. We have the ability to detect these transmissions with our noses. Maybe flatulence is the communications medium you are seeking.

I also put forward a post outlining the Human Body is also an emitter of neutrinos. It is possible these Neutrinos could be the communication link between man and a Superconscious/God!

The human body... and all kinds of inanimate matter as well. If we were chatting over coffee, I would probably be receiving more neutrinos from the materials in my chair and my coffee than I would be receiving from you. And I would be receiving so many more neutrinos from the earth and the sun that the amount of neutrinos I was receiving from you or my coffee or my chair are utterly insignificant in number.

-k

[whowhere]

I have no problem with anything that your NASA and Professor Huber have said on the subject. I have a problem with the claims of US Patent 6891310. That patent isn't held by NASA or the University of Virginia. It's held by "Bob Beckwith" of Clearwater Florida, a guy who apparently thinks he knows a lot more about neutrinos than NASA, Professor Huber, SNO, CERN, Fermilab, or any other research institutions who have been studying neutrinos for a long time and yet have made no claims at all about neutrinos being able to carry information from organic matter all over the universe.

Yes, all of the credible science agrees on that much.

But here you have left the credible scientists behind and are going it alone, just you and "Bob Beckwith".

Professor Huber proposes that we may someday be able to transmit and detect neutrinos reliably enough to form a rudimentary low-bandwith communication link, but that's far far different from the claim that neutrinos are picking up information from everything they pass and carry that information with them to be received elsewhere in useful form.

In fact, if you spend a few minutes reading through the patent "Bob Beckwith" received, you'll find out how truly fantastical some of his claims are:

He:

-rejects the "Big Bang".

-rejects the existence of "dark matter".

-argues against the concept of curved space

-claims the universe is an infinite, flat, straight grid of "force tubes".

Do you think a retired (and now deceased) engineer who spent his working life on electrical distribution and the power grid knew more about the origin and structure of the universe and about general relativity than the scientists who have devoted their entire lives to this topic?

What possible reason is there to think the human mind is receiving information in the form of neutrinos?

What possible reason is there to think that neutrinos convey any information worth receiving?

Neutrinos are flowing through the human body. But my position is not defeated unless you can demonstrate two things:

-a reason to think the human mind is capable of receiving neutrinos.

-a reason to think information can be recovered from the neutrinos we might receive.

You can't.

Maybe some day Professor Huber will succeed in building a giant neutrino flashlight and a submarine-mountable neutrino detector, and will show that we can send Morse Code or OOK-modulated signals using neutrinos. Good for him. Still wouldn't prove that human minds could be receiving neutrinos, or that there is any information we could be receiving from the neutrinos around us.

hey, maybe gravity is the medium of all human experience. We all transmit gravity. We all receive gravity. Hey, maybe communication is taking place through the medium of gravity right now. I certainly can't prove it isn't. Can you?

Hey, maybe methane is the secret medium that inspires human experience. We can transmit information using methane. We have the ability to detect these transmissions with our noses. Maybe flatulence is the communications medium you are seeking.

The human body... and all kinds of inanimate matter as well. If we were chatting over coffee, I would probably be receiving more neutrinos from the materials in my chair and my coffee than I would be receiving from you. And I would be receiving so many more neutrinos from the earth and the sun that the amount of neutrinos I was receiving from you or my coffee or my chair are utterly insignificant in number.

-k

It's ok keep talking. You obviously along with toadbrother and gosthack are know it alls and life is fortunate to have you in it (I will be kind) another 80 years perhaps. What will you, toadbrother, and gosthack do then? 80 years will be plenty of time in modern science land to reveal how clueless you are to the principles of fundamental communication.

It is fact, Carrier Frequencies are used to transmit and receive information. In the early years it was via the AM band, then FM band, Now the Gigahertz band, the Neutrino frequencies is off the chartered spectrum. Once the Neutrino spectrum is understood, information will be imposed on those frequencies as they are on all other frequencies. Science and logic defeats you. You 3 are arrogant to think that life has ground to a halt and is confined to your ideas of what is reality and what isn't.

Because Neutrinos are the focus of the day and on the fringe of technology it will be of interest to see where it leads. That patent was about OIL and if you want to mock that Engineer go ahead. Whatever, he knew about Neutrinos was through first hand experience. Where is yours coming from, Google? Whoever, holds that patent and if neutrinos are used to trigger bacteria to create OIL the implications are astronomical for the patent hold and mankind. As for LIFE, eighties years from now, will tiller the ship along the river of life (minus 3).

You still have time to cry on Mr Electron Soups shoulder and get him to roll out the red carpet and reel you in to his concept of reality.

[jbg]

And what does the forgoing have to do with "Replying to The BIBLE and SCIENCE"?

[Bonam]

It is fact, Carrier Frequencies are used to transmit and receive information. In the early years it was via the AM band, then FM band, Now the Gigahertz band, the Neutrino frequencies is off the chartered spectrum. Once the Neutrino spectrum is understood, information will be imposed on those frequencies as they are on all other frequencies. Science and logic defeats you. You 3 are arrogant to think that life has ground to a halt and is confined to your ideas of what is reality and what isn't.

The radio (whether AM or FM) and microwave (gigahertz) bands are just different frequencies of electromagnetic radiation (light). This radiation is carried by photons. Neutrinos (all 6 types of them) are not photons. They are not a type of electromagnetic radiation. They are not just another frequency, it is not a matter of "mapping out the spectrum".

[whowhere]

The radio (whether AM or FM) and microwave (gigahertz) bands are just different frequencies of electromagnetic radiation (light). This radiation is carried by photons. Neutrinos (all 6 types of them) are not photons. They are not a type of electromagnetic radiation. They are not just another frequency, it is not a matter of "mapping out the spectrum".

Why should the world be limited to people who think like you. The Engineer that produced that patent thinks otherwise. Of course an Engineer is some crazed lunatic not to be taken seriously. What would some engineer who owned a company related to energy know about energy.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Why should the world be limited to people who think like you. The Engineer that produced that patent thinks otherwise. Of course an Engineer is some crazed lunatic not to be taken seriously. What would some engineer who owned a company related to energy know about energy.

Just because he's an enginner doesn't mean he understands physics. (which he clearly doesn't) Anyway the guys dead he's not going to be inventing anything.

As kimmy said he

-rejects the "Big Bang".

-rejects the existence of "dark matter".

-argues against the concept of curved space

-claims the universe is an infinite, flat, straight grid of "force tubes".

Also his company being about electicity would make him even less knowledgable about neutrino's since they lack a charge.

[Shwa]

Apparently you've decided that the only way you can continue to advocate for c-r is to completely disregard what he's actually said.

Confronted with mutually exclusive ideas, yes, it's a contest. They can't both be right. You have to pick a winner.

Come on now. It could just as well be that I understand what "he's actually said" a little different from you, which is just as much as possibility than any advocation for his ideas on my behalf. I think the delineating point is that you are opposed to his ideas whereas I am willing to look at them and try to see possibilities. No harm in that and neither is there any contest.

When c-r is talking about quantum mechanics being a proof of god and spiritual connection, do you really think he's describing television?

No. But I think he sees television as a part of it. It appears to me that cr is looking at the quantum reality and revising his spiritual views according to his knowledge of it. Does this require a PhD in physics? I dunno. But does it prevent him from holding such views? No.

Magnetic influence on animals may occur, some animals at least... but it's (a) a one-way communication path, and (contains very little information. What can animals learn from being sensitive to magnetic fields? Which way is north. That's basically about the extent of it.

And if it does say, in Monarch butterflies, then that little information keeps them alive and is key in propagating their species. A fairly important piece of information despite its minimal size.

I believe the modulation rate of the earth's magnetic field is on the order of eons... so while some animals may have a functional receiver, the information capacity of this channel would be on the order of a iota of a bit per recipient lifetime, if there were somehow information being modulated onto it.

Interesting thought. Don't forget to calibrate your compass when you trek into the bush. Because the information you receive from magnetic north (which is actively shifting) might lead you to your doom.

How could it be anything other?

Are you saying the receiver could somehow look at quantum noise and determine which random processes contain information and which do not?

Perhaps you could elaborate on that thought.

All it would take is a filter of some type I would think.

[kimmy]

All it would take is a filter of some type I would think.

And what criteria would this filter discriminate?

Frequency, polarity, magnitude, and size are the basis of many of the filters that we encounter in day to day life. What sort of characteristics might discriminate quantum noise containing a signal from quantum noise that's just quantum noise? Here's what I'm getting at: if there's a signal that can be recovered, it's not noise anymore. If there's a way to recover the signal out of it, it's because there is some discernible characteristic that allows us to differentiate that signal from the noise. Show me that discernible characteristic, and I'll show you how your quantum noise isn't quantum noise anymore.

Perhaps you're familiar with the Butterworth filter or the Chebyshev filter. I'd like to introduce you to another filter that I've discovered here at Mapleleafweb. It's called the Boxer filter. It works on the principle that "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."

This is the filter that allows me to look at a cloud and see a pony or a fluffy kitten. This is the filter that allows you to look at c-r's posts and see a great thinker. This is the filter that allows somebody to do find-a-word puzzles on pages of the Bible and declare that the Bible predicted 9/11, or look at a patch of mold behind their fridge and see Jesus, or pay $1.99 per minute to call the psychic hotline and search for items of personal relevance in Madame JoJo's prognostications.

This is the sort of filter that could discriminate information out of quantum noise: a receiver that has already decided what the signal is supposed to be.

-k

[Bonam]

This is the sort of filter that could discriminate information out of quantum noise: a receiver that has already decided what the signal is supposed to be.

That sounds like a marvelous technical breakthrough. Where can I order these?

[kimmy]

That sounds like a marvelous technical breakthrough. Where can I order these?

You can order one from the Mapleleafweb Institute for Advanced Physics. email whowhere for details.

-k