Canada's immigration policy.

[CANADIEN]

I think mostly, immigration is all a conspiracy by corporate Canada in order to increase profits relating to all sectors of private industry and bleed every last cent from the pockets of Canadian tax payers relating to federal and provincial services supplied to new immigrants.

This is merely the usual clueless comedic relief I expect from you. :lol:

I would sooner allow in cattle than the type of immigrants Canada is allowing in to-day.

That's low even by your standard. :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Leafless]

This is merely the usual clueless comedic relief I expect from you. :lol:

Obviously you are unable to prove otherwise as your reply, as usual, is only accompanied by your 'retarded emotional faces'.

That's low even by your standard. :angry: :angry: :angry:

Cattle serve a purpose to Canadian society.

We eat them rather than 'feed them' only to burden our society with social problems.

We are already burdened enough with Quebec, don't you think.

[CANADIEN]

Obviously you are unable to prove otherwise as your reply, as usual, is only accompanied by your 'retarded emotional faces'.

Obviously, you do not realize that the "immigration is a conspiracy by corporate Canada line" is so incrediby moronic that laughter is the only suitable reply. You might as well come here and state that 1 plus 1 equals 4.

Cattle serve a purpose to Canadian society.

We eat them rather than 'feed them' only to burden our society with social problems.

We are already burdened enough with Quebec, don't you think.

Valuing cattle more than people... :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Wild Bill]

Fine, I take my words back; he may have had a point.

However, there are other factors to consider. Owing to the rigorous standards already in place, which often include consideration of available personal funds, along with my proposal for even higher standards, immigrants would find it even more easy than the average Canadian to integrate in the job market, as is generally the case according to welfare statistics quoted in another thread. This does not necessarily mean, however, that they'll just 'come and take our jobs'. Yes, they'll be taking jobs they're most qualified for, but they themselves will also be paying taxes, and buying alot to reintegrate, such as houses, food, cooking supplies, clothes, etc. etc. etc. which can only help create new jobs. And as for the boat analogy, Canada is not the overcrowded country you make it out to be. We have plenty of land and plenty of resources. And if we maintain such standards for new immigrants, that would increase our supply of quality human resources too, helping to develop more industry, build new houses, and build a larger ta base to help Canada's less fortunate too!

And guess what! Immigrants volunteer and give to charitable organizations too. With a larger educated and thus likely better paid population, it also benefits charities and Canada's own poor too.

While I can appreciate that we're now in a recession, so is the rest of the world. We're not unique in that sense. But immigration can create ust as many jobs as it can take. So we'd at least break even there.

"We're not unique..." in the sense of being in a recession? How does having company in our misery change anything? Some might find it comforting but it won't save one business or job.

I'm curious as to how you think an economy works. You seem to think it just grows on consumption, that more people means more demand and therefore more money floating around. I don't quite see how that can be true.

Wealth comes from providing a product or a service to do with those products. We dig ore from the ground and we make it into steel and then into cars. We grow food and then not only do we provide income for farmers and supermarket checkout tellers but those who make plates and forks as well.

However, today it's a global market. The two steel mills here in Hamilton, Ontario could never survive on just the Canadian market. They lose more than that demand to rust! They need export customers around the world to give them the volume to support their business. Alberta's oil and wheat is not sold just to the rest of Canada.

So if there will be jobs to be had the significant portion will come from large firms that export to the world. Certainly that will mean a few jobs at car dealerships in your home town and construction jobs to build homes for them but the wealth that is at the very root and heart of all of it comes from large, PRIMARY industries!

It's been a while since I had occasion to use the term 'primary industry'. Somehow, such terms just aren't mentioned anymore. I guess some more 'mystical' concept of economics is more popular these days. For those unfamiliar with the concept, primary industries are those that mine or harvest resources and/or are the first steps in the chain of developing them, such as steel makers and car factories. Secondary industries support primary industries, such as home builders and street pavers. Tertiary industries might be restaurants and variety stores.

It used to be considered very important to have enough primary industry at the start of the chain. That's where the lion's share of the wealth is produced. Those who receive their wages from working in a variety store usually cannot afford to buy a new car or own their own home.

During the wave of immigration to Canada after the Second World War we experienced an explosion in growth for primary industries. The factories built to make tanks and planes now were making cars and toasters, hifis and TV sets. New technologies were offering new products never seen before.

We needed those immigrants! We had LOTS of jobs to offer!

This is NOT the same situation today! Where is the wealth from jobs in the primary industries? Where will these immigrants get their income?

It's not enough to say they will need things so therefore it will make the economy grow if the only place they get their income from is a government cheque paid from the taxes taken from everyone else!

That's like thinking you can grow your economy by drafting everyone into the Post Office and have us all send letters to each other!

It just doesn't make sense from a math standpoint. Having the company of other countries experiencing this global recession won't help either.

Sure immigrants might take some jobs from 'native sons' but in the main it seems to be those variety store jobs or perhaps driving taxis. What other jobs are there? Right now there are ex-factory guys here in Hamilton applying at Tim Hortons!

Finally, one point that no one seems willing to even consider is that Canada simply is no longer the attractive destination for immigrants that it once was. The word is getting out that our streets are no longer "paved with gold". Our embassies may not be telling applicants that we have high unemployment rates but families here talk with families "there". The word is spreading. Those folks that think we should be only accepting white Europeans like those who helped build this nation in the 50's are simply naive. Why on earth should those folks want to come to Canada? In the 50's Europe was torn up from the war. Today, their living standard is HIGHER than that of Canada's! Where once we were ranked 6th or 7th we are now somewhere around 17th or lower, after countries like Norway.

The only dissenting rankings seem to be from those more leftwing organizations that include subjective opinion factors in their benchmarks like "quality of life" instead of comparing what the average citizen earns and what his paycheque can buy for him.

No, if our governments have this idea in their heads that we absolutely MUST have high levels of immigration then we have no choice but to take them from wherever we can get them. This means that most will come from countries even further down that living standard ranking than Canada. Those countries tend to be of different racial stock and often of lower educational standards. Not all the immigrants driving cabs in Toronto are doctors.

As a sidebar, I don't really know why but if you look at any construction crew they seem to rarely have many minority faces. I don't know if there's racism in the hiring practices or if they simply don't get applicants! Or maybe it's just my own town. Perhaps if you look around in your town you may see something different.

Anyhow, as Gilda Radner used to often say "Details! It's always details!"

[Machjo]

I would sooner allow in cattle than the type of immigrants Canada is allowing in to-day.

Cattle over people. Nice priorities. I'm vegan and even I value people over cattle.

Who says Canada has to grow to the extent they are claiming? We derive a lot of Canada's wealth from the sale of natural resources and not primarily from the manufacturing sector. Let's do with what we currently have. The hell with more ethnic immigration.

Great. So we'lljust depend on gutting our resources to feed ourselves. Nice long-term thinkng there. And about 'ethnic' imigration. What immigration isn't ethnic? Show me someone who has no particular ethnic identity. Even a person of mixed identity will still identify with some ethnic group or other to some degree. Yes, even Anglo is ethnic.

I thought 'green' was in. Smaller the better, less resources we use and the less pollution we produce.

Then you obviously don't understand the concept of Green. It's not about protecting one nation at the expense of other nations, but rather protecting the earth. Looking at it that way, population growth through immigration actually equates with no growth from a Green standpoint since it's just a transfer of population from one part of the world to another. Also, Green does not mean celibating ourselves out of existance. Reasonable growth, or at least population maintenance, is good when are population is so small.

I think mostly, immigration is all a conspiracy by corporate Canada in order to increase profits relating to all sectors of private industry and bleed every last cent from the pockets of Canadian tax payers relating to federal and provincial services supplied to new immigrants.

Our quality of life has been reduced enough by the many new immigrants and all the social problems many of them are causing including over taxing our existing housing and infrastructure including roadways.

Any stats on that? You do realise, don't you, that we're all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. My ancestors on my mother's side immigrated to New France 300 years ago. My paternal grandfather immigrated from Ireland, and my paternal grandmother's ancestors likely immigrated to the continent btween 30,000 and 50,000 years ago from Asia. Like I said, we're all immigrants. Talk about closing the door behind you once you're in. If anything, the a bigger problem in Canada is with the growin number of ingrates who know little of the history of the land on which they live. Our nation was built on immigration, Had it not been for that, you'd likely have been born in Europe and be an immigrant yourself.

It would be much cheaper in the long run for the hotel, restaurant, taxi and trucking industries (where immigrants are currently required) to pay proper wages to existing Canadians rather than transfer the problems immigration causes to Canadian society at large..

Like I said, clowing the door behind us, are we? Our ancestors immigrate to Canada, push the locals into reservations or residential schools, exploit the land's resources, and then close the door behind them, ready to let any new foreinger in only to pay money to us. Again, opposing immigration today is showing a lack of gratitude to thos who'd welcomed our own ancestors.. of then again, some our ancestors just invited themselves in.

[Machjo]

Obviously you are unable to prove otherwise as your reply, as usual, is only accompanied by your 'retarded emotional faces'.

Cattle serve a purpose to Canadian society.

We eat them rather than 'feed them' only to burden our society with social problems.

We are already burdened enough with Quebec, don't you think.

Sieg Heil, Leafless. Are you a member of the Nazi Party by any chance?

[lictor616]

In what direction do you think our immigration policy needs to move?

Personally, I'd like to see the following:

1. Require all applicants for immigration to pass a sufficiently rigorous English or French language test and cut all federal spending for all new citizens on the following language training programme:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/pub...ome/wel-22e.asp

2. maintain or raise all other personal requirements.

3. Eliminate all immigration quotas. Since overall standards would be raised, they would take over the purpose of quotas anyway. Besides, it's also a matter of jusice in that if one immigrant can get in, then so should any other who can meet the same or higher standards.None should be turned back just because of his number in the lineup.

Would such a policy increase or decrease the rate of immigration to Canada? I think it's hard to say, but however many come, the new personal competence standards would ensure that they'd be well equipped to integrate without being unilaterally dependent on the federal government for special services such as the one linked to above. In some respects, I suppose it could be equated with a shift to a moderately libertarian approach in that it grants more freedom to foreigners to come to Canada while at the same time making them responsible for preparing for their own integration into their destined local community before coming.

In what direction would you like to see Canada's immigration policy shift, if at all?

The reality of third world unskileld immigration:

The fact is the haitian or guatemalan that you pay 8.50 an hour an hour to swing a pick and shovel for you, involves more then mere lowering of labor costs (which in itslef is detremental to the average canadian).

-The person has never paid substancial enough taxes to afford himself our medical care. If he gets hurt, he’s on the taxpayers’ dollar.

-His family also doesn’t have medical insurance or the tax paying clout to "earn" medical care. They are on the taxpayers’ dollar.

-If he stabs a guy in a brawl (as is likely with these groups), he goes to jail, needs a courtroom-appointed interpreter. There is a huge expense.

-Third world immigration also invites racism, which means endless committees, human "rights" organizations, panles, hate watch groups, special police training, affrimative action, sensitivity training, more government regimentation and other attacks on liberty and again: HIGHER COSTS.

-Bilingual education; his children don’t speak English- and will have to be instructed to speak a smattering of English (or French) and of course: we get to pick up the bill for this (and also this also weakens our literacy rates and weakens our school curriculums which in turn makes us a less productive less capable society in the long run and also artificially dumbs down the curriculum).

- The children of this immigrant will doubtless never be much more learned then their parents (usually children perform about as well as their parents) and if the parents are unskilled, criminals (as many third world immigrants are) the chances are that the children too will grow up to be criminals and unskilled.

So in conclusion the idea that you have made a great contribution to Canada by hiring a guy for 8.50$ an hour is just a tiny, tiny part of the expense that you will have to mop up for DECADES to come. It may seem like a great idea for the Company CEO who can reduce his labor costs and to the immigrant who can increase by leaps and bounds his life quality by migrating to canada... but its a disaster for our economy and tax payers nation wide.

By importing poor and crime prone people, you import criminality, poverty and the costs to sustain them..

and we haven't even delved into the huge havoc and ruin of our social fabric... sharia law demands, special religious rights and the like ..

Edited May 18, 2009 by lictor616

[Borg]

We need more citizens and a expanded economy. How we get there is the problem at hand. I must say that raising the standards is a very problematic solution though. If there is nothing but doctors and layers coming in, then it would make them more employable than us, we would in effect be shooting ourselves in the foot.

No, we do not need more citizens and an expanded economy.

What we need are more people who WANT to be here and leave their baggage at home. People who want to be Canadian - not people who collect welfare from several different wives in different houses. Not people who are "passport of convenience" carriers and use our system yet put little to nothing back in. Not people who bring in family members who COST us money. Not people who demand we change for them. Not people who are determined to change us to fit the "old country" and the beat goes on.

Damned liberals and their anybody but a European created a hell of a mess and it is going to get worse.

Borg

Edited May 18, 2009 by Borg

[Borg]

I agree. However, if a racist sees even just one non-white person on welfare, immediately he stereotypes the whole bunch. By raising standards, we'd likely expose him to more non-whites being doctors, scientists, etc than anything else, which would, we hope, at least change the opinions of more moderate racists. But I agree that there is not much we can do for hard-core racists other than try to educate.

Seems to me a recent MacLeans magazine showed there was a heck of a pile of folks who are "narrow minded racists" (my words) by the standard of this discussion. A lot of them seemed to be fairly well educated.

Perhaps you might ask this question - Why would they think that way?

Another perhaps - Maybe there is a solid reason for this.

Borg

[Machjo]

"We're not unique..." in the sense of being in a recession? How does having company in our misery change anything? Some might find it comforting but it won't save one business or job.

I'm curious as to how you think an economy works. You seem to think it just grows on consumption, that more people means more demand and therefore more money floating around. I don't quite see how that can be true.

No, it grows on production, but that production depends on demand.

Wealth comes from providing a product or a service to do with those products. We dig ore from the ground and we make it into steel and then into cars. We grow food and then not only do we provide income for farmers and supermarket checkout tellers but those who make plates and forks as well.

And who'll buy the car and the food? Sure we can just export, but look where that got Japan. A large trade surplus also pushes the value of the currency up, making our exports ever more expensive. Add to that that people can buy from abroad just as easily. Houses, haircuts, and such like are not easily importable or exportable, however, and this is where immigration has an advantage. And if we have high enough standards, which could include requiring immigrants to have so much money, then they're also more likely to spend thei money here rather than elsewhere.

However, today it's a global market. The two steel mills here in Hamilton, Ontario could never survive on just the Canadian market. They lose more than that demand to rust! They need export customers around the world to give them the volume to support their business. Alberta's oil and wheat is not sold just to the rest of Canada.

I agree. But in a recession, we can't depend on the export markets alone. This is where immigation comes in. It's not so easy to export a house or a haricut.

So if there will be jobs to be had the significant portion will come from large firms that export to the world. Certainly that will mean a few jobs at car dealerships in your home town and construction jobs to build homes for them but the wealth that is at the very root and heart of all of it comes from large, PRIMARY industries!

But you're missing something here. Other countries think the same. For us to export, others must import. This can't go on indefinitely,a s Japan's bubble economy in the 80's had proven to be futile. If we try to play a game of 'beggar-thy-neighbour', other countries will throw it right back at us. Remember the Great Depression? Protectionism made it even worse. With immigration, along with more freedom of labour movement, people can find more work abroad. For instance, right now Canada has a shortage of qualified mechanics. So let more in. However, Europe might have a shortage of some other skill that's not in demand in Canada. This way, foreigners can get jobs in Canada and canadians can get jobs abroad. After all, what's the point of haivng mechanic shorages in canada and unemployed mechanics in Europe?Likewise, what'sthe point of having unemployed people in Canada who might have skills that are in demand in Europe? Let them travel on both sides so that we can all have jobs. The Great Depression was a good lesson in how 'beggar-thy-neighbour' policies hurt all parties concerned. But naturally, people who find work abroad might later get married abroad and want to settle, etc. Why not treat them like humans, especially once they've paid their taxes already.

It's been a while since I had occasion to use the term 'primary industry'. Somehow, such terms just aren't mentioned anymore. I guess some more 'mystical' concept of economics is more popular these days. For those unfamiliar with the concept, primary industries are those that mine or harvest resources and/or are the first steps in the chain of developing them, such as steel makers and car factories. Secondary industries support primary industries, such as home builders and street pavers. Tertiary industries might be restaurants and variety stores.

Japan's primary industries are minimal as it has few resources of its own. The Japanese are smart as they create value-added jobs on our resource exports.

Now don't get me wrong here. I'm not suggesting that we stop exporting raw materials to Japan (I'm not that vindictive). All I'm saying is that it's not wise to be depleting our resources like this. Though I'm not in favour of just closing all our mines, I could be in favour of a resource tax similar to what the Green Party was proposing last election. Let's sell our resources at higher cost and thus encourage the development of more secondary and tertiary industries of our own. Why should we export all of our secondary and tertiary industries to Japan? Again, I'm not suggesting that we don't, as that would just be cruel to theJapanese, and vindictive. But if we sell our resources at higher cost, then while the Japanese could continue to import our resources if they want, we could develop more tertiary and secondary industries of our own too. It's not wise to depend on nothimg more than digging for our wealth.

It used to be considered very important to have enough primary industry at the start of the chain. That's where the lion's share of the wealth is produced. Those who receive their wages from working in a variety store usually cannot afford to buy a new car or own their own home.

Primary industries are indeed important. That is precisely why we should not take our resources for granted. Developing more secondary industries could help reduce our dependance on resources alone.

During the wave of immigration to Canada after the Second World War we experienced an explosion in growth for primary industries. The factories built to make tanks and planes now were making cars and toasters, hifis and TV sets. New technologies were offering new products never seen before.

We needed those immigrants! We had LOTS of jobs to offer!

This is NOT the same situation today! Where is the wealth from jobs in the primary industries?

Wealth is not limited to raw materials, but to finished products too. In fact, finished products are more valuable than just a clunk of steel.

Where will these immigrants get their income?

By providing services we need. We could easily make it part of the immigration standard that one must present a job offer to the immigration officer at his Canadian embassy, or alternatively a business plan that has been approved by a Canadian busines partner. That would ensure he has a job bevore even setting foot on Canadian soil. With the internet today,it shouldn't be too hard to find work online. I've done it before when looking to work in Toronto, and then China, at one point, In both cases, I had the job before even setting foot in their town. Why can't we ask the same of immigrants? Are you suggestingthat they can't find work?

It's not enough to say they will need things so therefore it will make the economy grow if the only place they get their income from is a government cheque paid from the taxes taken from everyone else!

That's just plane racist and bigotted. If we expect them to have so much moeny in the bank, qualifications, and a job offer or approved business plan before coming to Canada, then they'd essentially have money to spend even before they set foot on Canadian soil, and would have a plan to spend even more money if they have a businessplan. I get the impression that in your mind, all immigrants are just coolies.

That's like thinking you can grow your economy by drafting everyone into the Post Office and have us all send letters to each other!

No, it's like believing that if the person has moeny already before coming to Canada, the question then becomes, where will he spend it? And if he has qualifications in demand in the Canadian market, he might be able to help to increae Canada's exports by offering his brains, his expertise,that some Canadians might not have. To take but one instance, a few years ago, a Mexican Aztec friend of mine was studying at the University of Toronto. As it turned out, she had also studies classical Aztec, a reare skill even in Mexican Universities. She'd never realised her value to the univeristy until one day she was chatting with her profesor. As soon as she'd mentioned this, she had a job teaching at the univeristy within a semester and the university offered her education for free. Why? Because this suddenly made U of T one of the best universities for studying archeology in North America, which woudl naturally attract more students, also from around the world, and thus help the university and, consequently, Canada's economy. According to your logic, it would have been preferable to kick her out and maybe then she could offer her sevices to some US university instead so that Canadians who want to study archeology would want to go to the US instead of Uof T. Way to attract money to Canada there, eh. We need to think bigger. Brains are a resource too, even more so than gold, as the Japanese have proven.

It just doesn't make sense from a math standpoint. Having the company of other countries experiencing this global recession won't help either.

Sure immigrants might take some jobs from 'native sons' but in the main it seems to be those variety store jobs or perhaps driving taxis. What other jobs are there? Right now there are ex-factory guys here in Hamilton applying at Tim Hortons!

So we throw the baby out with the bath water? If we should raise standards, then the people coming in are more likely to be able to make a contribution to the economy and even attract more foreign investment, as the example with the Mexican above. Could any of those laid off factory workers of your go to U of T to teach classical Aztec to foreign students who bring money to the Canadian economy? They'd be an embarrassment to Canada's scholarly endeavours.

No, if our governments have this idea in their heads that we absolutely MUST have high levels of immigration then we have no choice but to take them from wherever we can get them. This means that most will come from countries even further down that living standard ranking than Canada. Those countries tend to be of different racial stock and often of lower educational standards. Not all the immigrants driving cabs in Toronto are doctors.

I don't believe we must take in immigrants, but if they can make a contribution, why not? As for racial stock, are you in any way related to Goebels? And you do realise that many of those 'undesirable racial stocks' are highly educated, don't you?

[Machjo]

The reality of third world unskileld immigration:

The fact is the haitian or guatemalan that you pay 8.50 an hour an hour to swing a pick and shovel for you, involves more then mere lowering of labor costs (which in itslef is detremental to the average canadian).

-The person has never paid substancial enough taxes to afford himself our medical care. If he gets hurt, he’s on the taxpayers’ dollar.

-His family also doesn’t have medical insurance or the tax paying clout to "earn" medical care. They are on the taxpayers’ dollar.

-If he stabs a guy in a brawl (as is likely with these groups), he goes to jail, needs a courtroom-appointed interpreter. There is a huge expense.

-Third world immigration also invites racism, which means endless committees, human "rights" organizations, panles, hate watch groups, special police training, affrimative action, sensitivity training, more government regimentation and other attacks on liberty and again: HIGHER COSTS.

-Bilingual education; his children don’t speak English- and will have to be instructed to speak a smattering of English (or French) and of course: we get to pick up the bill for this (and also this also weakens our literacy rates and weakens our school curriculums which in turn makes us a less productive less capable society in the long run and also artificially dumbs down the curriculum).

- The children of this immigrant will doubtless never be much more learned then their parents (usually children perform about as well as their parents) and if the parents are unskilled, criminals (as many third world immigrants are) the chances are that the children too will grow up to be criminals and unskilled.

So in conclusion the idea that you have made a great contribution to Canada by hiring a guy for 8.50$ an hour is just a tiny, tiny part of the expense that you will have to mop up for DECADES to come. It may seem like a great idea for the Company CEO who can reduce his labor costs and to the immigrant who can increase by leaps and bounds his life quality by migrating to canada... but its a disaster for our economy and tax payers nation wide.

By importing poor and crime prone people, you import criminality, poverty and the costs to sustain them..

and we haven't even delved into the huge havoc and ruin of our social fabric... sharia law demands, special religious rights and the like ..

This can all be solved by high immigration standards. This way, they're guaranteed a high-paying job and so higher taxes. personally, I'd also be in favour of privatised health care for all, thus making this a moot point (I'm more libertarian-leaning myself).

As for your comments about violence, I fully agree that we need to get the Hell's Angles off our streets.

[Machjo]

No, we do not need more citizens and an expanded economy.

What we need are more people who WANT to be here and leave their baggage at home. People who want to be Canadian - not people who collect welfare from several different wives in different houses. Not people who are "passport of convenience" carriers and use our system yet put little to nothing back in. Not people who bring in family members who COST us money. Not people who demand we change for them. Not people who are determined to change us to fit the "old country" and the beat goes on.

Damned liberals and their anybody but a European created a hell of a mess and it is going to get worse.

Borg

Again, high immigration standards can solve all of this. As for the polygamy issue, I agree that we need to do something about those Mormons.

[lictor616]

You mean before entering Canada?

While I'm all for standards, it ought to be straightforward. I'm fine with having high standards before entering Canada. But once in, they should be able to get their documents quickly enough in my opinion. It's not fair to them to leave them hanging once they've met all the standards before entering.

FAIR?

Are you under teh impression that we OWE anything to these third world immigrants? There is no fair: we give give give... they receive receive receive... fair would be you come to our country: speak our language, respect our institutions, and ASSIMILATE...

but third worlders come: spit on our culture, vilify our great and noble ancestors, scoff at out morals and values, disrepect our women and demand to implant THEIR failed ways IN OUR COUNTRY... some of them even talk darkly amongst themsleves of eradicating Euro "White" Canadians!

If we were fair and sane: our ports would be filled with vermin, desperately fleeing from an aroused and angry nation...

Edited May 18, 2009 by lictor616

[Machjo]

Seems to me a recent MacLeans magazine showed there was a heck of a pile of folks who are "narrow minded racists" (my words) by the standard of this discussion. A lot of them seemed to be fairly well educated.

Perhaps you might ask this question - Why would they think that way?

Another perhaps - Maybe there is a solid reason for this.

Borg

Let's not confuse spiritual education with academic. I've met people with degrees who did not want their children to associate with 'furreigners', or who didn't like 'French people' or 'English people' in Quebec, or who dont like Catholics or protestants or who refer to Aboriginals as savages. Academic education alone does not compensate for moral.

[Machjo]

FAIR?

Are under teh impression that we OWE anything to these third world immigrants? There is no fair: we give give give... they receive receive receive... fair would be you come to our country: speak our language, repect our institutions, and ASSIMILATE...

but third worlders come: spit on our culture, vilify our great and noble ancestors, scoff at out morals and values, disrepect our women and demand to implant THEIR failed ways IN OUR COUNTRY... some of them even talk amongst themsleves of eradicating Euro "White" Canadians!

If we were fair and sane: our ports would be filled with vermin, desperately fleeing from an aroused and angry nation...

Have you ever worked abroad? I have. And whether I live within my own border or abroad, I expect my rights to be respected. No different for those vemin of yours. Sieg Heil.

[lictor616]

This can all be solved by high immigration standards. This way, they're guaranteed a high-paying job and so higher taxes. personally, I'd also be in favour of privatised health care for all, thus making this a moot point (I'm more libertarian-leaning myself).

As for your comments about violence, I fully agree that we need to get the Hell's Angles off our streets.

The hell's angels create about 2 non gang related deaths a year... they also wrestle the balck market away form potential terrorists (who would use drug profits for dastardly deeds)... Some cops actually beleive they may be necessary and useful to keep around.. lol

Jamaicans in the GTA... 27 out of 43 murders from the nads of Jamaicans are not gang related... thats much more then the hells.

Privatised healthcare would mean a lot of third world immigrant corpses lying around and we would still have to flip the bill for burials...

I'm all for privatised healthcare, but unfortunately it won't happen.

[Borg]

Let's not confuse spiritual education with academic. I've met people with degrees who did not want their children to associate with 'furreigners', or who didn't like 'French people' or 'English people' in Quebec, or who dont like Catholics or protestants or who refer to Aboriginals as savages. Academic education alone does not compensate for moral.

One and the same - in the end the result is the same and you have now - by accident or design - dodged my question(s).

Perhaps you might ask this question - Why would they think that way?

Another perhaps - Maybe there is a solid reason for this.

Sometimes there ARE good reasons - you seem ready to ignore or dodge.

Borg

[Machjo]

The hell's angels create about 2 non gang related deaths a year... they also wrestle the balck market away form potential terrorists (who would use drug profits for dastardly deeds)... Some cops actually beleive they may be necessary and useful to keep around.. lol

Jamaicans in the GTA... 27 out of 43 murders from the nads of Jamaicans are not gang related... thats much more then the hells.

Privatised healthcare would mean a lot of third world immigrant corpses lying around and we would still have to flip the bill for burials...

I'm all for privatised healthcare, but unfortunately it won't happen.

If we increased immigration standards, then those Jamaicans wouldn't be there. Instead, the Jamaicans living there would be professional physicians, lawyers, engineers, etc.

[lictor616]

If we increased immigration standards, then those Jamaicans wouldn't be there. Instead, the Jamaicans living there would be professional physicians, lawyers, engineers, etc.

No Jamaicans are among the poorest immigrant groups in canada as they are EVERYWHERE THEY IMMIGRATE TOO.

In Great Britain for instance: Jamaican immigrants are the poorest among ANY OTHER NATIONALITY- and generally are absent in the proffessional sector.

And the Jamaicans (and other failed groups) ARE ALREADY here and reproducing at an alarming rate!

[Borg]

Have you ever worked abroad? I have. And whether I live within my own border or abroad, I expect my rights to be respected. No different for those vemin of yours. Sieg Heil.

I live abroad now - so do not give me that crap.

Rights? What rights?

You have no rights in a third world country unless you have money or power.

You get what you are given - can steal or take by force - if you do not like it you leave.

Imagine telling someone in the Congo that your rights are being denied because you cannot get served in laguage XXX or that you cannot speak your piece without being threatened.

You would be laughed into the ground - if not beaten into the ground.

You talk big but do not back it up with reason - then pull the Sieg Heil routine - tells me a lot about you.

Borg

[Borg]

If we increased immigration standards, then those Jamaicans wouldn't be there. Instead, the Jamaicans living there would be professional physicians, lawyers, engineers, etc.

Well, you need to change the attitude of Canadians in general - after all - once those folks are on the ground here - whether legally or illegally - they are extremely difficult to remove.

Deport them and they return - and yes it happens.

The sob stories and the "poor misunderstood" and the "hard life" are all accepted excuses to most canadians - time some were actually forced to be responsible for their actions.

So, give us your solution - besides increased standards - which will be defeated in todays courts - elitist and therefore probably against the "charter of bullschitte" - someone like our friend trudeau - the second coming - will be there crying to the country about how we are being unfair to the down trodden of the world.

Bitter? Nope - realistic about the success of the liberal social re-engineering that has taken place over the past couple of decades

Canada is screwed and it will get worse.

Borg

[Machjo]

No Jamaicans are among the poorest immigrant groups in canada as they are EVERYWHERE THEY IMMIGRATE TOO.

In Great Britain for instance: Jamaican immigrants are the poorest among ANY OTHER NATIONALITY- and generally are absent in the proffessional sector.

And the Jamaicans (and other failed groups) ARE ALREADY here and reproducing at an alarming rate!

Here's what I found within seconds on Google:

Tertiary education is offered by the following institutions:

University of the West Indies at Mona [4], (a regional institution)

University of Technology (U-Tech)[5]

Northern Caribbean University [6](NCU)

University College of The Caribbean (UCC) [7]

Edna Manley College of Visual and Performing Arts (an artistic conservatory)

College of Agriculture, Science and Education (CASE)

G. C. Foster College of Physical Education and Sports

12 teacher training colleges, 14 community colleges, 1 dental auxiliary school, 1 Vocational Training Development Institute, 29 vocational training centres and 6 Human Employment and Resources Training (HEART) vocational training institutions.

Seems you're wrong. There are educated Jamaicans. You just don't want to believe it.

[Machjo]

I live abroad now - so do not give me that crap.

Rights? What rights?

You have no rights in a third world country unless you have money or power.

You get what you are given - can steal or take by force - if you do not like it you leave.

Imagine telling someone in the Congo that your rights are being denied because you cannot get served in laguage XXX or that you cannot speak your piece without being threatened.

You would be laughed into the ground - if not beaten into the ground.

You talk big but do not back it up with reason - then pull the Sieg Heil routine - tells me a lot about you.

Borg

I'd worked in China, that big bad wolf of a commie country, for two years, and yes, they did not guarantee services in English and I had to learn Chinese. Reasonable. And though I was not totally satisfied with the freedoms granted me, I can say at least that they were no worse than for the averae Chinese for the most part. In fact, if anything, I think they treated me better in some ways.

However, I don't understand your desire for Canada to drop to their standards. It would seem to me that you would like Canadian embassies to jusdge a potential immigrant based not on his actual abilities, but purely on his skin colour.

[CANADIEN]

The reality of third world unskileld immigration:

The fact is the haitian or guatemalan that you pay 8.50 an hour an hour to swing a pick and shovel for you, involves more then mere lowering of labor costs (which in itslef is detremental to the average canadian).

-The person has never paid substancial enough taxes to afford himself our medical care. If he gets hurt, he’s on the taxpayers’ dollar.

-His family also doesn’t have medical insurance or the tax paying clout to "earn" medical care. They are on the taxpayers’ dollar.

-If he stabs a guy in a brawl (as is likely with these groups), he goes to jail, needs a courtroom-appointed interpreter. There is a huge expense.

-Third world immigration also invites racism, which means endless committees, human "rights" organizations, panles, hate watch groups, special police training, affrimative action, sensitivity training, more government regimentation and other attacks on liberty and again: HIGHER COSTS.

-Bilingual education; his children don’t speak English- and will have to be instructed to speak a smattering of English (or French) and of course: we get to pick up the bill for this (and also this also weakens our literacy rates and weakens our school curriculums which in turn makes us a less productive less capable society in the long run and also artificially dumbs down the curriculum).

- The children of this immigrant will doubtless never be much more learned then their parents (usually children perform about as well as their parents) and if the parents are unskilled, criminals (as many third world immigrants are) the chances are that the children too will grow up to be criminals and unskilled.

So in conclusion the idea that you have made a great contribution to Canada by hiring a guy for 8.50$ an hour is just a tiny, tiny part of the expense that you will have to mop up for DECADES to come. It may seem like a great idea for the Company CEO who can reduce his labor costs and to the immigrant who can increase by leaps and bounds his life quality by migrating to canada... but its a disaster for our economy and tax payers nation wide.

By importing poor and crime prone people, you import criminality, poverty and the costs to sustain them..

and we haven't even delved into the huge havoc and ruin of our social fabric... sharia law demands, special religious rights and the like ..

Let's get back 50 years ago, and change Haitian to Italian, and Guatemlan to Portuguese. Same racist generalisation, that has been proven wrong over time.

Edited May 18, 2009 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

FAIR?

Are you under teh impression that we OWE anything to these third world immigrants? There is no fair: we give give give... they receive receive receive... fair would be you come to our country: speak our language, respect our institutions, and ASSIMILATE..

You would have us believe that all you want is for immigrants to assimilate/

Will be pretty hard to believe after something like....

If we were fair and sane: our ports would be filled with vermin, desperately fleeing from an aroused and angry nation...

That's sounds pretty like advocating violence against immigrants to me.