Canada's immigration policy.

[CANADIEN]

And some ethnics are just plain nuts.

You're the living proof it does not happen only among "ethnics".

Edited May 26, 2009 by CANADIEN

[benny]

Curiosity and immigration should go together.

[CANADIEN]

You must know for a fact that it was not the English speaking majority in Canada who were responsible for the creation of cultural hysteria in Canada.

On that we agree. The hysteria is yours, and yours alone.

It makes me laugh when posters like 'CANADIEN' who claim to be so much different than his brothers in Quebec but beats the same French cultural drum.

This less than 24 hours after you claimed my being able to speak English was a form of betrayal. :lol:

French and Aboriginal minorities in Canada are not really minorities

How long before you claim you never wrote that one?

(...)are fed privledges invented by a French PM

French politicians have not passed laws applying to this country for about two centuries and a half now.

primarily for Quebecers that are not available to other Canadians.

I forgot, other Canadians don't get federal government services in either English or French.

There is no need to further bother to look up the definitons of bigot, or racist as you don't have to look further than(...)

you.

[Leafless]

You're the living proof it does not happen only among "ethnics".

And only French nut cases like you and others who think like you would approve of Trudeaus method and how he destroyed Canada and what it was meant to be by destroying it's citizens liberties and transforming Canada into a red Liberal nationalist state patterned off of blue nationalist Quebec.

Only in Canada would it's unsuspecting trust worthy citizens allow this to happen.

[benny]

If English culture in Canada is just about a rapid (over)exploitation of natural resources, then we have to applaud at these other incoming cultures with a different agenda.

Edited May 26, 2009 by benny

[CANADIEN]

And only French nut cases like you

I'm not French. STRIIIIIIIIIIIKE ONEEEEEE

and others who think like you would approve of Trudeaus method and how he destroyed Canada and what it was meant to be

Something that didn't happen. STRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE TWOOOOOOOOO

by destroying it's citizens liberties

by enhancing protection for the rights and freedoms of Canadian. STRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE THREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. You're out... of your mind.

[benny]

I'm not French. STRIIIIIIIIIIIKE ONEEEEEE

Moi, j'en suis un Québécois francophone.

[Leafless]

I'm not French.

I knew you were bluffing all this time and are not really French nor a Trudeau clone.

Something that didn't happen.

It happened!

by enhancing protection for the rights and freedoms of Canadian.

English translation of "enhancing':

By creating EXTRA rights over all other Canadians and applicable only for politically 'correct minorities' only and ignores ALL other Canadian minorities who only have the same rights as all other Canadians.

[Machjo]

What exactly do you imagine the ideal to be? Do you think all those Italians, Greeks, Poles, Germans, etc. who came to Canada in the early to middle part of the last century should all have retained their cultures, their cultural value sets, their languages? Do you somehow think this would be a GOOD thing for Canada?

Cultural imperialism is a term most often used when your culture overwhelms that of a smaller nation. You appear to believe that when the members of those other nations come here we should allow our own culture to be overwhelmed and sublimated to theirs - or else somehow this is cultural imperialism! A bizarre belief, to say the least!

The grandsons of Germans who came to Canada are culturally indistinguishable from the grandsons of Ukrainians who came to Canada. That's the way it should be. That's the way it needs to be.

When CIDA is involved in promoting English-language hegemony abroad, that's cultural imperialism. A good book I could recommend on the subject is Robert Phillipson's 'Linguistic Imperialism', a very well-researched account of the systematic way in which some countries strategize to promote their languages abroad, well aware of the economic, military, scientific, and political advantages that accrue to their nations from this.

[Machjo]

The nature of the internet is that one language predominates and it tends to influence people into learning - English.

Really? Funny that. When I was in China, I often found myself having to communicate with Koreans, Japanese and Russians not in English, but in Chinese. A friend of mine had an offer to teach Chinese in Algeria (she taught French in China), and another was asked by a university in Argentina if he coud recruit Spanish-speaking Chinese teachers sinse their university couldn't keep up with the demand for its Chinese courses. And in Germany, last I checked, over 50 high schools offered Mandarin as an alternative elective to English.

I've also attended a number of international conferences where a team of interpretors had to be present. And if you search the net, you'll come across plenty of references to the decline of English as a mother-tongue and the poor English level of most so-called speakers of English as a second language.

My own experience as an interpretor and observing interpretors backs me up on this. I've seen interpretors lose control of a discussion just because one of the interlocutors doesn't have the right accent. In one case, a Chinese-English interpretor who could understand US and British English just fine lost control of a discussion with a Pakistani, an Australian, and a Cameroonian present.

It is increasingly obvious that a common language is needed, but English fails to fulfil the role.

[Machjo]

The nature of the internet is that one language predominates and it tends to influence people into learning - English.

Really? Funny that. When I was in China, I often found myself having to communicate with Koreans, Japanese and Russians not in English, but in Chinese. A friend of mine had an offer to teach Chinese in Algeria (she taught French in China), and another was asked by a university in Argentina if he coud recruit Spanish-speaking Chinese teachers sinse their university couldn't keep up with the demand for its Chinese courses. And in Germany, last I checked, over 50 high schools offered Mandarin as an alternative elective to English.

I've also attended a number of international conferences where a team of interpretors had to be present. And if you search the net, you'll come across plenty of references to the decline of English as a mother-tongue and the poor English level of most so-called speakers of English as a second language.

My own experience as an interpretor and observing interpretors backs me up on this. I've seen interpretors lose control of a discussion just because one of the interlocutors doesn't have the right accent. In one case, a Chinese-English interpretor who could understand US and British English just fine lost control of a discussion with a Pakistani, an Australian, and a Cameroonian present.

It is increasingly obvious that a common language is needed, but English fails to fulfil the role.

[CANADIEN]

I knew you were bluffing all this time and are not really French nor a Trudeau clone.

:lol: And in less than 24 hours, you'll make a fool of yourself AGAIN.

It happened!

Three days after Darth Vader led the Kilingons in conquering the Earth.

By creating EXTRA rights over all other Canadians and applicable only for politically 'correct minorities' only and ignores ALL other Canadian minorities who only have the same rights as all other Canadians.

Yep. Canadian languages are extra in Canada. Whatever.

[Machjo]

How often have you seen any communication from higher ranking public servants? Can you even name a single deputy minister or assistant deputy minister? Can you name any senior RCMP personnel? When was the last time you heard one speaking?

I was referring to cases of obvious necessity, such as a police officer in downtown Montreal where English-French bilingualism is practically the norm. Or cases of such high-ranking officials that they must communicate with their subordinates in provincial and territorial branches of federal institutions on a regular basis. Of course we won't hear them on TV. But if you're responsible for communicating with your subordinates regularly and they are the heads of various regional branches acros Canada, you'd better be able to communicate with them. It woudl save us more money that way that to hire an interpretor for hi every day. If that's the case, might as well just train the interpretor to do his job for him.

[Machjo]

No. It designates all manner of positions as "bilingual imperative" without regard to whether the jobs actually require bilingualism. Everyone in Ottawa knows people who have been on paid language training for a year or more, and went back to work to rarely if ever use their second language. My sister is one such person. She is currently fighting with her department because she is paying $70 a week to a private tutor to try to keep up the French it took so long for her to learn (at government expense). Problem is, after she got the rating, she rarely ever uses it at work, so if she doesn't keep it up it'll fade away. And the government doesn't want to pay for her tutor.

If she fails her next test, though, in three years, they'll send her back to school full time at huge expense.

This is what I mean. In Europe right now they've started to revamp their whole second-language learning policies in recognition of the fact that their old policies weren't working, based on the latest linguistic research. Scary thing is though, Canada's are similar to theirs, but we're just keeping the old system they've started to abandon, without any critical thought put into it. Sheepish really.

[Machjo]

According to my reading (don't have time to find it right now), about 1/4 of this country's population is bilingual.

Are you sure about that?

If by bilingual you mean French-English bilingual, no. According to:

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/demo15-eng.htm

Only about 17% of Canadians asess themselves as knowing both of Canada's Official Languages. Remember though that self-assessments generally give better results than objective tests. So the reality is likely to be even more dismal.

if, however, you mean bilingual in any two languages, then maybe you're right. I don't know. You'd have to come up with the statistics to back you up then.

[Machjo]

I fail to see how Quebec separating would involve deportations - unless the Quebecers then decided to deport all the Anglos and natives.

Actually, in one book I'm reading Quebec treats its native populations better than its other provincial counterparts do.

[Smallc]

I simply got my numbers mixed up. Anyway, the bilingualism numbers in Quebec and New Brunswick are quite good, and they should get better over time.

[Machjo]

You must know for a fact that it was not the English speaking majority in Canada who were responsible for the creation of cultural hysteria in Canada.

Quebec are the culture imperialist of Canada all in the name of the pursuit of political power which basically is an extension of the 'War on the Plains of Abraham'.

It makes me laugh when posters like 'CANADIEN' who claim to be so much different than his brothers in Quebec but beats the same French cultural drum.

French and Aboriginal minorities in Canada are not really minorities but are 'politcally correct' minorities and are fed privledges invented by a French PM, primarily for Quebecers that are not available to other Canadians.

There is no need to further bother to look up the definitons of bigot, or racist as you don't have to look further than the French cultural ideologies and policies imposed by Quebec politicians in their own province and forced fed to the ROC.

A few points on this:

1. I'm Franco-Ontarian myself.

2. You're simplifying things too much. I've seen native English-speaking Canadians defend Official Bilingualism frothing at the mouth with devotion to the cause, just as I've seen French Canadians oppose it with equal fervour. It's not so much a French-English issue. In fact, it's not even necessarily a federalist-sovereigntist issue. Various factors play a role in why a certain person will support or oppose Official Bilingualism. In my case, I tend to oppose it, at least as a long-term solution, on grounds of justice and inefficiency.

3. I do agree that many though by no means all French Canadians can have a somewhat imperialistic mindset when it comes to their language diffusion policies. Robert Phillipson in his book 'Language Imperialism' holds no punches. He's extremely critical of the British Council, USAID, and Canada too (he doesn't specify through which agency, but I'd discovered that at least CIDA is involved in it). But France does not escape unscathed either by his objective application of his ideas. He points out that France's language policy today towards its Patois is in fact (and he meant it wihtout sarcasm, inuendo, or empty rhetoric, but according to clearly defined objective criteria) very similar to that of Nazi Germany, to its own embarrassement.

Unfortunately, at least some French Canadians have also adopted this idea of diffusing their culture among non-French-speakers. On that I can fully agree. To be fair though, we need to acknowledge too that Quebec currently treats its First Nations better than any other province at present. Many Cree in the North of Quebec study all their subjects entirely in Cree for their first few years of school, and the grades in which this is done continue to grow. So though many French Canadians can go too far in the diffusion of their culture, any objective observer will acknowldge some positives here too.

As for the First Nations, seeing that we'd had a systematic policy of cultural genocide towards Canada's First Nations up until very recently, we have a moral obligation to do something to help maintain their languages and cultures. Though Quebec has been complicit in this cultural genocide, it has also accepted some of the rsponsibility for it and is at least trying to make amends. English Canada has given little more than lip service to it.

So it's not just a matter of a finger-pointing blame game between English and French speakers. You simplify the situation too much by just throwing all the blame on all French-speakers without acknnowledgeing any diversity among us and among English-speakers too, trying to portray all English-speakers with halos floating over their heads and all French-speakers as holding tridents and having horns on their heads.

[Machjo]

The fact we gave two national languages is what I refer to.

Not really national, but Official. Nunavut has four. Quebec has one, etc. This applies only at the federal level.

[Machjo]

And only French nut cases like you and others who think like you would approve of Trudeaus method and how he destroyed Canada and what it was meant to be by destroying it's citizens liberties and transforming Canada into a red Liberal nationalist state patterned off of blue nationalist Quebec.

Only in Canada would it's unsuspecting trust worthy citizens allow this to happen.

To which province did Trudeau send the troops again?

[Machjo]

I simply got my numbers mixed up. Anyway, the bilingualism numbers in Quebec and New Brunswick are quite good, and they should get better over time.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[benny]

An ideal immigration policy should take in only those people curious about the host country culture.

[Argus]

I simply got my numbers mixed up. Anyway, the bilingualism numbers in Quebec and New Brunswick are quite good, and they should get better over time.

These are self-reported numbers. Every Frenchman who can ask where the bathroom is in broken English seems to think he's bilingual. Forty-three percent of Quebecers claim bilingualism. In my experience, very, very few Quebecers outside the Montreal and Gatineau regions are even marginally bilingual, and few of those would pass federal tests.

[Argus]

If English culture in Canada is just about a rapid (over)exploitation of natural resources, then we have to applaud at these other incoming cultures with a different agenda.

As opposed to French culture - which in Quebec had them drowning half their north and kicking out all the natives so they could flood it and create giant hydro dams.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

These are self-reported numbers. Every Frenchman who can ask where the bathroom is in broken English seems to think he's bilingual. Forty-three percent of Quebecers claim bilingualism. In my experience, very, very few Quebecers outside the Montreal and Gatineau regions are even marginally bilingual, and few of those would pass federal tests.

Well its their province, let them speak what they want to. Perhaps an inch goes a mile after all.