Radsickle Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Canadian federal court hasn't rule that Khadr must be repatriated but that the Canadian government has to demand that the United States send him home as soon as possible. Huh? Is he late for dinner? Quote
Radsickle Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Rotten minds alonein darkness and mushroom like making food for worms It was tonge in cheek, Radsicle. Hold a grudge much? Worm castings enrich mushrooms and moss eat it all some minds outgrow you Highya. Quote
g_bambino Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Worm castings enrichmushrooms and moss eat it all some minds outgrow you Now, that's better! Well done. Quote
benny Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 I can imagine Harper in a hunger strike to show how stubborn he is in his refusal to obey the court. Quote
Radsickle Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Now, that's better! Well done. Gee, thanks G. Khadr isn't free Canada isn't either until they both meet How's that one? 5-7-5 syllable? Did I do ok? Quote
benny Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Also, updating our citizenship requirements cannot be aimed at draining more efficiently the rest of the world of its best brains. Quote
Radsickle Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Also, updating our citizenship requirements cannot be aimed at draining more efficiently the rest of the world of its best brains. better to help the domestic market and stop the "brain drain" with federal funding where it's needed; medical and scientific research grants for those already here. I hope Khadr enters Canadian politics if found innocent. Edited May 5, 2009 by Radsickle Quote
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 It the government that decided to have the military take charge of his custody. No it was the US government that decided, along with the US courts. You have stated the military should not be involved in non-military stuff. Well, if he is not a soldier, then he is a civilians and as such should have been treated as such and taken into custody in a civilian court system. You can't have it both ways I believe they should not be involved, only because of the lack of experience and misconception from the civilian side of the house if say a harsh sentence was handed down....it would be much better percieved if they where tried in a civilian court, with civilian staff.... all that being said, any crime that happens in a threater of operations can be tried by a military court, under the conventions and inter national law....When was the last time someone was tried under the genva convention ?...and how many Canadians understand that law?...or how it works....The military should have done the smart thing and passed it on to a civilian court. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Oleg Bach Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 No it was the US government that decided, along with the US courts.I believe they should not be involved, only because of the lack of experience and misconception from the civilian side of the house if say a harsh sentence was handed down....it would be much better percieved if they where tried in a civilian court, with civilian staff.... all that being said, any crime that happens in a threater of operations can be tried by a military court, under the conventions and inter national law....When was the last time someone was tried under the genva convention ?...and how many Canadians understand that law?...or how it works....The military should have done the smart thing and passed it on to a civilian court. He was a civilian who traveled from Canada to a theatre of operations. That theatre was in a place where conflict was happening..it was a land and people where no offical declaration of war was offered up - not from us - and not from the states. If he was considered a civilian which I believe he was - is it illegal for a civilian to kill a soldier if that soldier is percieved as about to kill them? Khadr at the last moment must surely have believed as the force was securing the bombed out building..that they were going to finish him off...not many look at this angle...getting back to the legality - I ask you the question - If a civlian is being threatened by a military person with death - does that civlian have the right to kill the soldier? Quote
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 To you, Khadr has merely the function of a scapegoat. No benny, to me he is just a terrorist, I've seen first hand thier work, from the damage and destruction of thier IED's, sucide bombers, attack on old men and women, including removing all the skin from a 70 year old man and staking him out on the ground to bake in the sun .His crime was talking to NATO soldiers....to removing a little girls hands and murdering her father in front of her because she went to school....they enjoy thier work, they take pride in terrorizing thier own people, they won't stop until they can force they're will upon the majority....unless you've lived in total fear of a group of people you'll not comprehend what it is like.... I don't need khadr as a scapegoat i've seen his kind , thier work, Khadr needs to go back and face those very people he helped terrorize, to face thier justice.....not ours... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Oleg Bach Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 No benny, to me he is just a terrorist, I've seen first hand thier work, from the damage and destruction of thier IED's, sucide bombers, attack on old men and women, including removing all the skin from a 70 year old man and staking him out on the ground to bake in the sun .His crime was talking to NATO soldiers....to removing a little girls hands and murdering her father in front of her because she went to school....they enjoy thier work, they take pride in terrorizing thier own people, they won't stop until they can force they're will upon the majority....unless you've lived in total fear of a group of people you'll not comprehend what it is like.... I don't need khadr as a scapegoat i've seen his kind , thier work, Khadr needs to go back and face those very people he helped terrorize, to face thier justice.....not ours... What you described is not some political or religious movement that some describe as terrorism - what you described is common thuggery and crimminal behaviour of the worst kind. Until the west holds the high moral ground we have no right for the crimminally minded to turn over a man to the other crimminally minded- what would they do to this former kid - that is now a man? Chop off his hands and skin him alive..what makes you think that the surrogate government that we are helping to install are better than their competators? Quote
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 He was a civilian who traveled from Canada to a theatre of operations. That theatre was in a place where conflict was happening..it was a land and people where no offical declaration of war was offered up - not from us - and not from the states. If he was considered a civilian which I believe he was - is it illegal for a civilian to kill a soldier if that soldier is percieved as about to kill them? Khadr at the last moment must surely have believed as the force was securing the bombed out building..that they were going to finish him off...not many look at this angle...getting back to the legality - I ask you the question - If a civlian is being threatened by a military person with death - does that civlian have the right to kill the soldier? Oleg before the fire fight began, 3 Afghan soldier went over to knock on the front door, of the building in which khadr and his merry band of terrorist where 2 where gunned down in the door step, the 3 rd was gunned down running away....Khadrs buddies sealed everyones fate with that action....including his....once he armed himself he became a combatant and therefore a target.... He had plenty of time to surrender, airstrikes take time to call in and time to coordinate.....he was outside the main bldg, or he would have been killed in the airstrike....he could have gave him self up at any time before.... To answer your question, yes...they can defend themselfs...that being said how long do you think you'd last when his buddies came looking for him....do you think they are going to believe you that you where defending yourself....remember your in a war zone death and destruction is all around you ...i'd say your life would be measured in milli seconds.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 What you described is not some political or religious movement that some describe as terrorism - what you described is common thuggery and crimminal behaviour of the worst kind. Until the west holds the high moral ground we have no right for the crimminally minded to turn over a man to the other crimminally minded- what would they do to this former kid - that is now a man? Chop off his hands and skin him alive..what makes you think that the surrogate government that we are helping to install are better than their competators? Oleg this is happening across the country, this is common taliban acts, and they are not common thuggery, beating someone daily is thuggery, taking all night to skin a man alive, is evil....cutting the hands off a little girl and making her watch her father die...is evil.....I want to remind you for just a second oleg that Canadians sent our troops over here to engage these evil mothers to take the fight to them....and perhaps give the normal people of Afghan a hope at peace..... I want you to place yourself in thier shoes, had that old man been your father, that you watched all night scream in pain as they ripped his skin off ....would you give a rats ass how those responsable were treated....or would you still have the MORAL high ground, and demand a fair trail, and life in prison..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Oleg Bach Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Thanks for the concise briefing. Still - get rid of the opium buyers on our side of the fence..money buys arms..why do we allow dope sales? Quote
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Thanks for the concise briefing. Still - get rid of the opium buyers on our side of the fence..money buys arms..why do we allow dope sales? I know i did not change your mind Oleg, and to most Canadians they see a small boy who's father has brain washed into commiting these types of acts, and they are willing to set this now young man free in our nieborhood...there is to many double standards for criminal acts....for instance it is ok to punish a boy under the age of 15 for murder and try him in a adult court....but we can't do the same a the same boy that has commited treason, terrorist acts in a foreign country....why is that... Your right and thier is a portion of the fight that is being brought again'st the drug lords....but currently the main focus is fighting the taliban...who is well funded by more than just drug money... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Oleg Bach Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 I know i did not change your mind Oleg, and to most Canadians they see a small boy who's father has brain washed into commiting these types of acts, and they are willing to set this now young man free in our nieborhood...there is to many double standards for criminal acts....for instance it is ok to punish a boy under the age of 15 for murder and try him in a adult court....but we can't do the same a the same boy that has commited treason, terrorist acts in a foreign country....why is that...Your right and thier is a portion of the fight that is being brought again'st the drug lords....but currently the main focus is fighting the taliban...who is well funded by more than just drug money... It's not the their drug lords that I am concerned about - it is ours..much like our and the American renegade weapons dealers- we have to enforce our own laws domestically for starters..though my sister years ago I spent some time with a person that armed both Iran and Iraq - who was also involved with the Contral scandal - he operated with impunity in Canada - from what I heard he was also a cocaine king pin...he died unmolested and unconvicted. Having said that. The Pakistanians have not been dealt with firmly and honestly - nor have the Saudis..that is a serious problem with the Taliban just 60 miles out side the governmental centres and very close to getting their hands on Pakistans nuclear arsenal..we have bigger problems than Khadr. Profit from conflict must be realistically examined - and adjustments have to be made - we can not have our young soldiers perish while those in our midst have some fun and make extra cash..blunt? Yes - we have to enforce our laws! If we have people in our midst or within the confines of the EU - who - are taking advantage of conflict and prolonging it - they have to be dealt with - we can not skirt around because some of our politicals are influenced by powerful men..either we have a government that is independent of such - or we have a shadow government with hearts as cold as ice. Quote
jdobbin Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 No it was the US government that decided, along with the US courts. However, those courts have now ruled large aspects of that custody have no legal substance. It is why the U.S. is having a hard time getting any progress on the case. I believe they should not be involved, only because of the lack of experience and misconception from the civilian side of the house if say a harsh sentence was handed down....it would be much better percieved if they where tried in a civilian court, with civilian staff...all that being said, any crime that happens in a threater of operations can be tried by a military court, under the conventions and inter national law....When was the last time someone was tried under the genva convention ?...and how many Canadians understand that law?...or how it works....The military should have done the smart thing and passed it on to a civilian court. I have said all along that Khadr will eventually turn up on the Canadian border. I believe some hoped that he would be tried and convicted and executed in secret but there is no law military or civilian than allows for that to happen. Quote
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 I have said all along that Khadr will eventually turn up on the Canadian border.I believe some hoped that he would be tried and convicted and executed in secret but there is no law military or civilian than allows for that to happen. Thats my fear that he will be codled and set free as his brothers did for the most part...and although i would not shed a tear for him if executed i would perfer justice be served and him held accountable for his actions as to send a clear message to the others... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
M.Dancer Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 I believe some hoped that he would be tried and convicted and executed in secret but there is no law military or civilian than allows for that to happen. Wrong on both counts. I hope he is tried and executed in public....for the record the US is seeking the death penalty on at least 6 unlawful combatants. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jdobbin Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 (edited) Thats my fear that he will be codled and set free as his brothers did for the most part...and although i would not shed a tear for him if executed i would perfer justice be served and him held accountable for his actions as to send a clear message to the others... Justice has not been served. It never is when you are held without charges, denied access to lawyers, interrogated with techniques that McCain calls torture and held in custody beyond the reach of civilian authority. In short, the U.S. has not proved its case against Khadr and its actions against him have made it near impossible for him not to be set free. Edited May 5, 2009 by jdobbin Quote
M.Dancer Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Justice has not been served.It never is when you are held without charges, denied access to lawyers, interrogated with techniques that McCain called torture and held in custody beyond the reach of civilian authority. Justice is served when we uphold our conventions and by doing so act legally. Article 42 of the 4th GC.. Article 42The internment or placing in assigned residence of protected persons may be ordered only if the security of the Detaining Power makes it absolutely necessary. If any person, acting through the representatives of the Protecting Power, voluntarily demands internment, and if his situation renders this step necessary, he shall be interned by the Power in whose hands he may be If at any time a tribunal decides he is an unlawful combatant, then he losses all right and protections of the Geneva convention. This is considered an imrovement over the Hague conference which recommended that unlawful combatants be executed on the spot. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 You would think that the big boys in the States could have at least come up with a big fish - like maybe that Bin Laden fellow...but noooo...they and us propogate this emotionally charged issue of a 15 year old no body - this always seem to be diversional..on and on we go about the Khdars and not one peep out of our government when it comes to what the hell Paskistan is really doing..their mode of operation is highly questionalble - looks like just like the American corporates turned war lords that they go for the soft targets - the ones they are comfortable with - beating up on a kid...and tieing some dumb goat herders hands together while you slowly smother him with a wet cloth..what the hell is that? Khadr should be forgotten about - I am sure the little bastard has learned his lesson ---do you think his incarceration curbed his behaviour? That the young adult may have been corrected and reformed? Someone should interview him and ask if he wants to be part of the Canadian family or continue to be an enemy of the household that shelters him? Quote
benny Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 No benny, to me he is just a terrorist, I've seen first hand thier work, from the damage and destruction of thier IED's, sucide bombers, attack on old men and women, including removing all the skin from a 70 year old man and staking him out on the ground to bake in the sun .His crime was talking to NATO soldiers....to removing a little girls hands and murdering her father in front of her because she went to school....they enjoy thier work, they take pride in terrorizing thier own people, they won't stop until they can force they're will upon the majority....unless you've lived in total fear of a group of people you'll not comprehend what it is like.... I don't need khadr as a scapegoat i've seen his kind , thier work, Khadr needs to go back and face those very people he helped terrorize, to face thier justice.....not ours... By being able to describe coldly what a terrorist do shows that you are not terrorize by people you like to call terrorists and therefore that your accusation is phony. The Shariah is nothing new but it is going to more extremes because interpersonal relations in the Western world have become more and more a meat market. Quote
Army Guy Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 By being able to describe coldly what a terrorist do shows that you are not terrorize by people you like to call terrorists and therefore that your accusation is phony. Benny, are you saying because i never peed my pants it never happened...interesting assesment, maybe were lucky your not working in our mental health clinic...I'm sure they could tell you a few stories that would make you puke.... Actually i can discribe it very clearly if you'd like, and no i was not terrorized, sickened yes, angry yes, disgusted that someone or group of people could do such an act ....but never terrorized... But benny you don't have to believe me, there are hundrds of documented accounts of such acts, by the UN, amesty international, the list goes on.... And you can blame what ever you want for thier actions, but i do know that there is no religion , faith, or following that could make a man do what i saw over there....unless they enjoyed it , and lost a major part of thier humanity. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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