jbg Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Posted April 21, 2009 I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that you're referring to the final declaration that came out of this meeting's predecessor eight or so years ago.No, referring to the U.N. resolution of 1975. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Posted April 21, 2009 A U.N. racism conference on the eve of Israel's Holocaust Remembrance Day disintegrated into chaos moments after Ahmadinejad became the first government official to take the floor. Two protesters in wigs tossed the noses at Ahmadinejad as he recited a Muslim prayer to begin his speech. Now that's disgusting! No one should be rude when someone is saying a prayer. I totally agree. Even in my days as a radical left winger (now I'm just a far leftie) I didn't like my fellow radicals shutting down speeches with "Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh". Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Posted April 21, 2009 How much freedom to Palestinians have compared to say, Iranians or Saudis or Sudanese? Where is the condemnation of Sudan for its attempt to purge itself of Blacks? Nobody cares about that, right?Palestinians' display of "freedom" is to blow themselves up in public places. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
tango Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 It has? I must have missed that. For all intents and purposes, Anti-Zionism is largely practiced by people who think a perfect ending to the dispute would be putting all Jews from all nations into large ovens. That's simply not true. However, some people are having difficulty with the manner in which Israel is implementing the so-called Jewish state. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
tango Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 Palestinians' display of "freedom" is to blow themselves up in public places. You are reaching back to find racist insults to hurl ... Palestinians have not engaged in that, by agreement, since 2005. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
tango Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) I totally agree. Even in my days as a radical left winger (now I'm just a far leftie) I didn't like my fellow radicals shutting down speeches with "Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh". I was very disappointed too, to see that it was Jewish students who hurled the first insults, before even allowing him to say a word. That's too bad. Edited April 21, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
tango Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 What is racism? Racism is not 'loving your neighbour as yourself'. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
jbg Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) I was very disappointed to see that it was Jewish students who hurled the first insults, before even allowing him to say a word.That's too bad. I guess in your blindness you didn't notice that I was attacking the Jewish students for their totally incorrect and wrong behavior. They want freedom; they should let others practice it. Better to let Ahmejenejad make a fool's a** out of himself than deprive him of his right to speak by disruption and hecking heckling.Edited to fix spelling of "heckling". Edited April 21, 2009 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
tango Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) I guess in your blindness you didn't notice that I was attacking the Jewish students for their totally incorrect and wrong behavior. They want freedom; they should let others practice it. Better to let Ahmejenejad make a fool's a** out of himself than deprive him of his right to speak by disruption and hecking. Yes I noticed, and I'm agreeing with you. (Edited slightly to clarify my intent.) And Ahmejenejad did make a fool of himself too. I'm not on one side or the other in an ideological way. I'm pretty much a total pragmatist who regards ideology with great suspicion. Facts are good. Edited April 21, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
jbg Posted April 21, 2009 Author Report Posted April 21, 2009 Yes I noticed, and I'm agreeing with you. (Edited slightly to clarify my intent.)I edited mine to fix a spelling error. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 Can someone give a rational explanation of both sides in this matter? I'm not exactly clear as to what is being boycotted. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 Can someone give a rational explanation of both sides in this matter? I'm not exactly clear as to what is being boycotted. As I understand... -This conference is made up of certain countries in the UN...not all the member states. -The Muslim states in the group (+ Palestinian observers and such) have formed somewhat of a strong block along with certain other like-minded countries. -They use this block of power to focus the conference's attentions on Israel and Israel's supposed many crimes. -The vast majority of the member states of this block have poor, if any, "human rights" as we know them in their own countries. -The last conference was a joke because of the above. -Ahmedadinnerjacket started this year's conference (aka Durban II) with a typical (for him) rant against Israel. This told those hopeful yet skeptical member states (that were thinking of boycotting but didn't) that indeed, Canada and others had made the right choice in the first place. -As a side line, this block also appears to want to make the criticism of religion a crime in the UN's eyes: a hate crime. No more cartoons re: Allah and Mohammed. Others more up on the procedures can expand or correct. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
g_bambino Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Do you really expect Ahmejenejad (sp) to debate? I'd expect from him what he considers to be debate. But, I'd also hope that, in comparison, rational minds would make him look all the more ridiculous. Then again, when the UN-types are so obsessed with political correctness, perhaps nobody'd dare make the man appear the fool that he is. No, referring to the U.N. resolution of 1975. Ah. I don't know of it. The BBC interview was still interesting, though. [copyedited] Edited April 21, 2009 by g_bambino Quote
tango Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) from the UN site ... “Some nations, who by rights should be helping to forge a path to a better future, are not here,” Mr. Ban said at the start of the Durban Review Conference in Geneva, referring to countries such as the United States and Israel which have refused to attend the five-day gathering. He also spoke out against the comments made by Mr. Ahmadinejad at today’s session which he said were intended to “accuse, divide and even incite,” calling them a roadblock to tackling the scourge of racism. “This is the opposite of what this Conference seeks to achieve,” noted the Secretary-General in a statement, who, at an earlier meeting with the Iranian official, emphasized the importance of the gathering to galvanize global will to fight intolerance. During their talks, Mr. Ban said that he also underlined the need to look ahead to the future, not to the past of divisiveness, reminding Mr. Ahmadinejad that the UN General Assembly has adopted resolutions rejecting the equation of Zionism with racism and reaffirming the Holocaust’s historical facts. In a statement directed at the Iranian President’s remarks today, however, he said “we must all turn away from such a message in both form and substance.” Also speaking out against Mr. Ahmadinejad’s address was High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay, who deplored his use of the Conference for political grandstanding. Edited April 21, 2009 by tango Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Keepitsimple Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 Here's an article for The Star - no fan of Harper's. A small point - Harper never actually said "Told you so" - that was just the Star's childish attempt to portray Harper as being a flippant know-it-all - which are characteristics that better describe the Star. After reading this article - can there be any doubt that Canada's decision was a wise on? A leopard does not change it's spots.....how can one expect racist countries to lead an anti-racist forum? Duh. Told you so, Harper says as Iran stirs UN uproarDENIS BALIBOUSE/REUTERS A protester is removed from the hall where Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was addressing the UN racism conference in Geneva April 20, 2009. Verbal attack on Israel sparks chaos at event boycotted by Canada April 21, 2009 Oakland Ross MIDDLE EAST BUREAU JERUSALEM – The Iranian president called for the eradication of Israel, some diplomats walked out in protest, two men in clown wigs tried to climb onto the stage and demonstrators on all sides had a field day. Yesterday's opening session of the second United Nations World Conference Against Racism in Geneva could be described as an international circus. It came one day before Holocaust Remembrance Day, an annual event being marked today in memory of the 6 million Jews who perished in Nazi death camps during World War II. But the only head of government to speak at the gathering in the Swiss capital was Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who referred to the Holocaust as a "pretext of Jewish suffering," branded Israel "illegitimate" and exhorted other countries to take measures aimed "at eradicating (Israel's) barbaric racism." But Canada completely avoided the brouhaha. In 2008, the Harper government announced it would boycott the conference – the first nation to do so. "Our government is leading the world, not following it," Prime Minister Stephen Harper said yesterday, in a conference call from Kingston, Jamaica, where he was holding talks with his Jamaican counterpart, Bruce Golding. "We observed clear, unmistakable signs this conference will again scapegoat the Jewish people." Before Ahmadinejad even started his speech, two men wearing rainbow-coloured wigs tried to rush the podium and one of them threw a red object – it looked like a tomato – at him. Security personnel prevented them from reaching the stage. As Ahmadinejad began to talk, delegates from many of the 192 states at the conference walked out of the room in protest. According to Harper, the timing of Ahmadinejad's speech – so close to Holocaust Remembrance Day – was a deliberate tactic, typical of preparations for the Geneva conference. "Countries with a history of promoting hatred were given key organizational roles," he said, charging that preparatory meetings for the conference were frequently held on Jewish holidays." Harper noted the first UN racism conference held in Durban, South Africa, in 2001, was viewed in many quarters as primarily an exercise in Israel-bashing and it ended in acrimony and disarray. Although Canada was the first to decline attendance at this year's conference, Israel, Australia, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, New Zealand and the United States were also conspicuous by their absence. Israel yesterday recalled its ambassador from Switzerland for consultations, an apparent protest against a decision by Swiss President Hans-Rudolf Merz to meet personally with Ahmadinejad. Diplomats from Britain and France – both of which opted to attend the conference – denounced the Iranian president's address yesterday. "Such outrageous, anti-Semitic remarks should have no place in a UN anti-racism forum," said Peter Gooderham, British ambassador to the UN. Several countries – including the United States, Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand – decided only on Sunday they would stay away from the Geneva meeting. Canada, Australia, Israel and Italy all dropped out of the gathering weeks or months earlier. "It's a little bit chaotic here," said Gerald Steinberg, chair of political studies at Israel's Bar-Ilan University, who was at the Geneva conference yesterday as an observer. "A very significant crowd walked out." Steinberg praised Canada for its groundbreaking decision to boycott the event. "It's the Canadians who went first," he said. "Everybody has been following that." Steinberg dismissed continuing efforts by at least some participating countries to ensure the conference produces a balanced resolution that avoids singling out Israel for criticism about its human-rights record. "I think the text is irrelevant with so many countries staying away," he said. "The text isn't the problem. It's the overall atmosphere." Quote Back to Basics
lictor616 Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Racism is not 'loving your neighbour as yourself'. more proof that liberalism and most leftist creeds (ie communism/ marxism) is simply a succedaneous religion that supplanted Christianity and is as unconcerned with reality and observed biological facts as the other desert dogmas. lemme guess: because "all men are created equal"... nonsense.... Edited April 21, 2009 by lictor616 Quote -Magna Europa Est Patria Nostra-
JerrySeinfeld Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 Some of Ahmedinjad's thoughts from the past: They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred . . ." "The real Holocaust is what is happening in Palestine where the Zionists avail themselves of the fairy tale of Holocaust as blackmail . . ." "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." "As it has lost its raison d'etre, Israel will be annihilated." "Israel is a tyrannical regime that will one day will be destroyed." "Israel is a rotten, dried tree that will be annihilated in one storm." And this is the kind of guy Obama wants to have coffee with. Well, at the very least this kind of recent speech is giving even less credence to Obama's campaign pledge that, hey if we could only all sing "cumbaya" together, everything will be ok. Quote
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2009 Report Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) Some of Ahmedinejad's musings are indeed ridiculous. What concerns me, however, is this idea that Israel should be exempt from criticism. Whenever someone condemns them for carrying out counter-attacks in densely populated civilian areas with rockets that inevitably destroy apartments and schools, people criticize the person doing the condemning and accuse them of being racist or anti-semites. On the contrary, it's just that Israel should be held to the same standard they are attempting to enforce upon others. Palestinians that launch attacks into densely populated neighbourhoods are just as condemnable and just as much at fault for the on-going conflicts. They also bear the responsibility of setting up shop around civilians to intentionally seek sympathy from civilian casualties. Regardless, that doesn't absolve Israel of the disgusting tactics they've used. People should be free to criticize Israel just as they are to criticize Palestine or Iran. Edited April 21, 2009 by cybercoma Quote
jbg Posted April 22, 2009 Author Report Posted April 22, 2009 What concerns me, however, is this idea that Israel should be exempt from criticism. Whenever someone condemns them for carrying out counter-attacks in densely populated civilian areas with rockets that inevitably destroy apartments and schools, people criticize the person doing the condemning and accuse them of being racist or anti-semites. On the contrary, it's just that Israel should be held to the same standard they are attempting to enforce upon others. Palestinians that launch attacks into densely populated neighbourhoods are just as condemnable and just as much at fault for the on-going conflicts. They also bear the responsibility of setting up shop around civilians to intentionally seek sympathy from civilian casualties.You've hit the nail on the head. I prefer responses on the merits to accusations of anti-Semitism. What I will posit is that Jews (and for that matter Christians) these days are being held to a higher standard than more "exotic" and "indigenous" Muslims.Supporters of Israel, such as myself, would have no problem with condemnation of Israel if the playing field were level. Clearly, Palestinian tactics, such as attacks on Olympic athletes, discos, pizza parlors and the like are directly aimed solely at civilians. The Israelis' responses are complicated by the fact that the Palestinians "fight" out of uniform, and from civilian areas, as you point out. The fact is that Israel's attacks are never aimed first at defenseless civilians. The civilian casualties are almost always collateral or accidental. Regardless, that doesn't absolve Israel of the disgusting tactics they've used. People should be free to criticize Israel just as they are to criticize Palestine or Iran.Ever compare the number of General Assembly resolutions aimed at Israel vs. the number aimed at Iran and/or the Palestinians? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Oleg Bach Posted April 22, 2009 Report Posted April 22, 2009 The UN - are utlitarians. Or they used to be..now they have progressed to sinisterism. Power corrupts - but these dellusionalist really have no power - I say ignore them..what good have they done thus far for the world? NONE! Quote
tango Posted April 22, 2009 Report Posted April 22, 2009 The UN - are utlitarians. Or they used to be..now they have progressed to sinisterism. Power corrupts - but these dellusionalist really have no power - I say ignore them..what good have they done thus far for the world? NONE! Are you saying Canada's UN peacekeepers have done no good? Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Oleg Bach Posted April 22, 2009 Report Posted April 22, 2009 Are you saying Canada's UN peacekeepers have done no good? They mean well...and I respect the individuals. When I was a kid I heard about the UN...it sounded wonderful to the young idealist mind. But,,,, when I look at them as a mature adult....well.................. They seem to approve of genocide as if the world was their own private experimental ant farm...CANADA.... WAS a leader and the holder of the high moral ground..then ---- our Harper...sucked up to a drunken coke addict - and a corporate sadist..all for the money..now are crediblity is at stake - we could save our reputation...but it may be to late. Quote
tango Posted April 22, 2009 Report Posted April 22, 2009 You've hit the nail on the head. I prefer responses on the merits to accusations of anti-Semitism. What I will posit is that Jews (and for that matter Christians) these days are being held to a higher standard than more "exotic" and "indigenous" Muslims.Supporters of Israel, such as myself, would have no problem with condemnation of Israel if the playing field were level. Clearly, Palestinian tactics, such as attacks on Olympic athletes, discos, pizza parlors and the like are directly aimed solely at civilians. The Israelis' responses are complicated by the fact that the Palestinians "fight" out of uniform, and from civilian areas, as you point out. The fact is that Israel's attacks are never aimed first at defenseless civilians. The civilian casualties are almost always collateral or accidental. Ever compare the number of General Assembly resolutions aimed at Israel vs. the number aimed at Iran and/or the Palestinians? And you are suggesting that is discrimination rather than reality? Re Israel, Noam Chomsky says: "Security was always a lower priority than expansion.", referencing a study by Zeev Moaz. And "Israel is deliberately turning itself into perhaps the most hated country in the world..." This is what concerns me: Israel has had a lot of moral and other support in its establishment and development, but it seems to be fast using up that goodwill through its aggressive actions. Does Israel want peace? I don't believe so. Not any more. Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
Oleg Bach Posted April 22, 2009 Report Posted April 22, 2009 And you are suggesting that is discrimination rather than reality?Re Israel, Noam Chomsky says: "Security was always a lower priority than expansion.", referencing a study by Zeev Moaz. And "Israel is deliberately turning itself into perhaps the most hated country in the world..." This is what concerns me: Israel has had a lot of moral and other support in its establishment and development, but it seems to be fast using up that goodwill through its aggressive actions. Does Israel want peace? I don't believe so. Not any more. Those bullied a generation ago are now the tough guys.... Have you ever seen a high breed well fed Jewish military leader - they are no push over - bold - cruel and heartless. Quote
tango Posted April 22, 2009 Report Posted April 22, 2009 They mean well...and I respect the individuals. When I was a kid I heard about the UN...it sounded wonderful to the young idealist mind. But,,,, when I look at them as a mature adult....well..................They seem to approve of genocide as if the world was their own private experimental ant farm...CANADA.... WAS a leader and the holder of the high moral ground..then ---- our Harper...sucked up to a drunken coke addict - and a corporate sadist..all for the money..now are crediblity is at stake - we could save our reputation...but it may be to late. Evidence? Quote My Canada includes rights of Indigenous Peoples. Love it or leave it, eh! Peace.
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