Canadian stranded in Sudan refused passport

[benny]

As a Montrealer myself, I'm quite happy that Abdelrazik is not living in Montreal. But as a Canadian, I'm happy to see that this Soudanese is protected by the Canadian embassy in Khartoum. I would not like to see him being one of the millions victims of the Darfur ethnic cleansing.

Edited April 7, 2009 by benny

[Cuzzin E]

I don't like where this is going. Imagine having your name, or one similar to yours, mysteriously show up on an American no-fly list, with no reason or explanation given. Simply having your name on this American list is enough to prevent you from ever flying anywhere again.

This guy is guilty simply for having foreign name & being from Africa. No proof needed.

[benny]

This guy is guilty simply for having foreign name & being from Africa. No proof needed.

He is only suspect because, among other things, he knew Ahmed Ressam.

Edited April 7, 2009 by benny

[waldo]

Since you insist on going down the path of assigning blame, let's look at Liberal government involvement in this matter.

What about the Liberal government's involvement in the Abdelrazik file? If there's a violation of the Charter now, then there was a violation of the Charter when the Liberals were handling this file. That was some brain fart from Cotler.

Evidently, to characterize the Conservatives' actions as shameful also applies to the Liberals.

You conveniently ignored the fact that Abdelrazik's woes began when the Liberal party was in government who did nothing to resolve his situation.

as you should know, but apparently don't know, the Charter's Section 1 'limitations clause' allows the state to limit a Charter right if it can show good cause or reason... in that regard, during the early Liberal years that you target in your lame attempt to deflect responsibility away from the Harper Conservatives, CSIS had not cleared Mr. Abdelrazik.

you talked earlier of "fact not spin"... now that I've shown your facts are not... facts... what's your spin to account for the current shameful actions of the Harper Conservative government in denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada? Wait... let me qualify that further... what's your spin - separate from attempting to deflect and shift responsibility - to account for the current shameful actions of the Harper Conservative government in denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada?

you... never bothered to look past your blind devotion to the Harper Conservatives; rather, you chose instead to deflect the Harper Conservatives government's responsibility... no maybe about it - it's just capricorn frothing at the mouth once again without proper knowledge of the facts.

again, exactly why is the Harper Conservative government denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada?

[benny]

as you should know, but apparently don't know, the Charter's Section 1 'limitations clause' allows the state to limit a Charter right if it can show good cause or reason... in that regard, during the early Liberal years that you target in your lame attempt to deflect responsibility away from the Harper Conservatives, CSIS had not cleared Mr. Abdelrazik.

you talked earlier of "fact not spin"... now that I've shown your facts are not... facts... what's your spin to account for the current shameful actions of the Harper Conservative government in denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada? Wait... let me qualify that further... what's your spin - separate from attempting to deflect and shift responsibility - to account for the current shameful actions of the Harper Conservative government in denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada?

you... never bothered to look past your blind devotion to the Harper Conservatives; rather, you chose instead to deflect the Harper Conservatives government's responsibility... no maybe about it - it's just capricorn frothing at the mouth once again without proper knowledge of the facts.

again, exactly why is the Harper Conservative government denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada?

To me, far from being shameful, it is dutiful for a state to suspend individual rights on security ground.

[Alta4ever]

We don't need "experts".

you are no professional or expert in how our customs departments work. You do not have all the info on this guy, you don't know what has led the civil servants looking after this case to deny him a passport. You can only speculate.

[benny]

you are no professional or expert in how our customs departments work. You do not have all the info on this guy, you don't know what has led the civil servants looking after this case to deny him a passport. You can only speculate.

Speculating is very powerful to a point that it can even cure paranoia.

[Alta4ever]

Speculating is very powerful to a point that it can even cure paranoia.

and yet you don't really know, its making assumptions on unfounded facts.

[benny]

Sudan's security agencies say the initial recommendations for Mr. Abdelrazik detention emerged from CSIS. CSIS denies that.

[Alta4ever]

Sudan's security agencies say the initial recommendations for Mr. Abdelrazik detention emerged from CSIS. CSIS denies that.

so what

[benny]

Also, Mr. Abdelrazik prayed at Montreal's Assuna Annabawiah mosque, widely regarded as a hotbed of Islamic extremism.

[Alta4ever]

Also, Mr. Abdelrazik prayed at Montreal's Assuna Annabawiah mosque, widely regarded as a hotbed of Islamic extremism.

So what, cisis and Customs are doing their jobs who are you to say they are not doing it properly?

[benny]

So what, cisis and Customs are doing their jobs who are you to say they are not doing it properly?

Sudan's security agencies say the initial recommendations for Mr. Abdelrazik detention emerged from CSIS. CSIS denies that. Canadians would obviously need another supra-secret agency to spy on the activities of CSIS.

[Alta4ever]

Sudan's security agencies say the initial recommendations for Mr. Abdelrazik detention emerged from CSIS. CSIS denies that. Canadians would obviously need another supra-secret agency to spy on the activities of CSIS.

Are you a conspiracy nut?

[bush_cheney2004]

Sudan's security agencies say the initial recommendations for Mr. Abdelrazik detention emerged from CSIS. CSIS denies that. Canadians would obviously need another supra-secret agency to spy on the activities of CSIS.

Good grief...here we go again! Mr Arar...please meet Mr. Abdelrazik.....Mr. Abdelrazik .....please meet Mr. Arar.

[waldo]

So what, cisis and Customs are doing their jobs who are you to say they are not doing it properly?

- as stated previously, cisis (sic) has cleared Mr. Abdelrazik... additionally, so has the RCMP

- this decision to deny Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada rests solely and completely on Harper and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lawrence Cannon.

- last year, the Harper Conservative government told Mr. Abdelrazik that he would be issued travel documents if he could find an airline to fly him home... apparently they didn't deem him a risk at this point. The airline to fly him to Canada was found... but then

- the Harper Conservative government then demanded a fully paid airline ticket from Mr. Abdelrazik... apparently they didn't deem him a risk at this point. Notwithstanding that the Harper Conservative government threatened anyone who assisted Mr. Abdelrazik in purchasing that airline ticket with a jail sentence (up to 10 years). Regardless, concerned Canadians purchased that ticket for Mr. Abdelrazik... but then

- Foreign Affairs Minister Cannon announced that Abdelrazik would have to get himself off a UN "no-fly" list... and, as I stated previously:

fact: an exemption to the UN Travel Ban applies to Mr. Abdelrazik; specifically:

within 1b of the UN resolution 1822 (2008):

Prevent the entry into or transit through their territories of these individuals, provided that nothing in this paragraph shall oblige any State to deny entry or require the departure from its territories of its own nationals and this paragraph shall not apply where entry or transit is necessary for the fulfillment of a judicial process or the Committee determines on a case-by-case basis only that entry or transit is justified;

... or in other words, "provided that nothing in this paragraph shall oblige any State to deny entry into or require the departure from its territories of its own nationals".

the Harper Conservative government... making it up as they go along - shameful!

[benny]

Are you a conspiracy nut?

Remember I told you that speculation is very powerful to a point that it can even cure paranoia. Indeed, because most animals aren't able of reflexivity, when they look at themselves in a mirror, they attack it like if it was an enemy.

[Oleg Bach]

Are you a conspiracy nut?

Why do they alway attatch the word conspiracy with the idea of dellusionism or some nasty form of mental illness - The term con - spire ...means to breath together as one incorporated animalistic entity. If two people in buisness scheme to defraud or force a third party out of buisness that is a conspiracy and it is a daily common occurance...as far as spectrism - or ghost chasing...if you speculate long and wide enough you are bound to come up with the facts....any person that actually thinks that conspiracy does not exist should just look at the incorporated plan to decieve the world with the WMD - that was a huge conspriacy...a deception and a fraud - YET there are fools who think it was some sort of cosmic fart...and accident...logic dictates that at least two persons conveyed the lie..they were breathing together.

[capricorn]

during the early Liberal years that you target in your lame attempt to deflect responsibility away from the Harper Conservatives, CSIS had not cleared Mr. Abdelrazik.

Wrongo, Waldo. It was a well known fact in 2004 (note, that's while the Liberals were in government) that top Liberal officials possessed information showing that Abdelrazik faced no charges, effectively clearing his return to Canada. To make matters worse, that was before Abdelrazik's name was on any no-fly list. Had the Liberals taken immediate action to bring him to Canada this whole sorry mess would have been averted. What is is about Abdelrazik that Liberals would leave him in a lurch in Sudan?

In September of 2004, a Canadian embassy official told Ottawa in a memo that a top Sudanese official said "there were no charges against him in Sudan ... He repeated there was nothing against him in Sudan, stressing those last two words. He said Sudan realized, however, that keeping an innocent man in detention was a human- rights violation. So far, they had prevented him from having access to news media and HR [human-rights] organizations but this could not go on forever. He thought that protest and public attention to this story would impact adversely on both our countries. In particular, it would tarnish Canada's reputation in Arab countries."

Despite that, Mr. Abdelrazik was arrested again in November of 2005, this time spending seven months in prison. In Ottawa, senior bureaucrats prepared "press lines" for ministers, apparently worried that Mr. Abdelrazik's predicament would become public.

"As a Canadian citizen, Mr. Abdelrazik is entitled to a one-time Canadian travel document that would allow him to travel to Canada," reads one of the prepared answers. "Canada is not, however, prepared to make extraordinary arrangements to provide for Mr. Abdelrazik's travel to Canada." And, it said. "Canada will not issue Mr. Abdelrazik a passport."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...geRequested=all

what's your spin - separate from attempting to deflect and shift responsibility - to account for the current shameful actions of the Harper Conservative government in denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada?

Why do you keep refuting that the Liberals are just as responsible as the Conservatives for this man's woes? You appear to be unable to grasp the media reports which categorically state that "successive governments" were involved in compounding this man's problems.

The trove of documents makes clear that the "highest levels" of both the past Liberal and the current Conservative governments were kept fully informed of Mr. 's case and concurred in its handling.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...geRequested=all

again, exactly why is the Harper Conservative government denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada?

Why did the Liberal government of the day fail Mr. Abdelrazik in spite of the fact that top Liberal officials knew he faced no charges? Why did Paul Martin's Liberal government block Mr. Abdelrazik's return to Canada?

[waldo]

heelarious! I'm glad I could make you dance...

you went a long way for... nothing!

perhaps you should have spent your time trying to determine when Mr. Abdelrazik was cleared by CSIS and the RCMP and line that up to which governments were in power during those dates... care to dance... some more?

standard operating procedure from the Harper Conservative camp... never accept blame/responsibility... look to deflect blame/responsibility to other parties.

you keep avoiding the question of the day... today... with this Harper Conservative government in power. Why is this Harper Conservative government refusing to allow Mr. Abdelrazik to return to Canada. Simple question...

the Harper Conservative government... making it up as it goes along - shameful!

[capricorn]

heelarious! I'm glad I could make you dance...

It was fun watching you waltz around the role that the Liberals played in the Abdelrazik matter. I especially liked your bob and weave moves.

you went a long way for... nothing!

This is just another display of your difficulty with actual debate. Just what I'd expect from a teenager in mom's basement with too much time on his hands.

[benny]

Think at dual citizenship as a coping arrangement when one citizenship falters.

[waldo]

It was fun watching you waltz around the role that the Liberals played in the Abdelrazik matter. I especially liked your bob and weave moves.

yours was a fine dance... but are we finished? Aren't you scrambling around trying to nail those CSIS/RCMP dates? It surely was comical to see you put all your emphasis on what the Sudanese government had to say! You so confidently put forward your little retort only to have it squashed with a few short sentences. Quite comical - indeed.

the government of the day - whichever government - seeks advice from it's security and police forces. Until you can categorically state, with a citation, the Liberal government ignored both CSIS/RCMP information clearing Mr. Abdelrazik, we are left with the fact that both governments sought advice from CSIS/RCMP... we are also left with the fact that the Harper Conservative government has received information from CSIS/RCMP clearing Mr. Abdelrazik - fact!

so - again... and again... and again... you fail to answer why your Harper Conservatives are denying Mr. Abdelrazik his right to return to Canada. Can you not answer why? Do you not have an answer why?

the Harper Conservative government... making it up as it goes along - shameful!

[waldo]

Think at dual citizenship as a coping arrangement when one citizenship falters.

fortune cookie?

[benny]

fortune cookie?

No. A secret thought.