Tories, Mulroney in tiff over party membership

[jdobbin]

As always, choosing a party to support comes down to other factors. With me, it usually depends on who smells the least!

If that is the case, one party is starting to become a little more ripe.

[ReeferMadness]

It is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but even the CPC is left of American Democrats, let alone the mythical "neocons". But I have come to understand that defining Canada is seemingly impossible without "the south" as a foil....carry on.

I was wondering when you would show up.

In the first place, I wasn't defining Canada. Harper certainly doesn't come anywhere close to representing the wishes of most Canadians. I believe the Conservative vote would be far lower if they knew what he was really about.

In the second place, the terms left and right are largely devoid of meaning and used mostly by people to sound intelligent while having nothing of substance to say.

[scribblet]

Harper is a knuckle-dragging troglodyte who wants to remake this country in the image of neo-cons to the south.

Garbage, absolute nonsense.. Harper is governing to the left of centre...show one policy that would fit with what you think is an "image of neo-cons to the south. "

[ReeferMadness]

Garbage, absolute nonsense.. Harper is governing to the left of centre...show one policy that would fit with what you think is an "image of neo-cons to the south. "

Well, how many things can I find wrong with your statement?

First, I didn't comment on what he is doing, I commented on what he would like to do. Harper is currently constrained by having a minority government. If he does anything that can easily be used against him, he's going to find himself leading the opposition.

Second, he's now a politician. That means he's not necessarily going to say what he thinks. Go back and review the speeches he made before he was a politician to see how deep his spite is for this country and how much he admires the Republicans. As an example of a politician who has been very successful by not saying what he will do, look at Gordon Campbell's (who's party are very different from other Liberals in this country).

Third, "centre", like "right" or "left" is highly subjective and relative. If you're from Alberta, centre might mean something different than if you're living in Ontario. Also, if you remember the pre-Reagan days, the centre has moved a whole bunch. Even allowing for these shifts, the terms are gross generalizations and if you can think in more than one dimension, they're quite limiting.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was wondering when you would show up.

I show up when I please.

In the first place, I wasn't defining Canada. Harper certainly doesn't come anywhere close to representing the wishes of most Canadians. I believe the Conservative vote would be far lower if they knew what he was really about.

Sure, but the voting electorate doesn't care what you think you know. They can think and vote for themselves, and have done so.

In the second place, the terms left and right are largely devoid of meaning and used mostly by people to sound intelligent while having nothing of substance to say.

Yup...just like those who offer up "neocons" from the "south".

[tango]

Paleocons?

Bushites?

Shrubs?

Suckers?

Edited April 12, 2009 by tango

[bush_cheney2004]

Paleocons?

Bushites?

Shrubs?

Suckers?

...all defined without a single reference to Canada. Imagine that.....

[tango]

...all defined without a single reference to Canada. Imagine that.....

I was defining Harper.

[bush_cheney2004]

I was defining Harper.

I know....he still won.

[tango]

I know....he still won.

he's going ... going ... poof!

[bush_cheney2004]

he's going ... going ... poof!

That's what you said last time.

[Wild Bill]

Well, how many things can I find wrong with your statement?

First, I didn't comment on what he is doing, I commented on what he would like to do.

Interesting use of 'logic' here. 'What he would LIKE to do'? Talk about arguing a 'what if' statement! What if Harper secretly is an alien reptillian kitten eater? What if he's actually trying to turn Canadians against conservatism in order to advance a socialist agenda?

What if he's concealing the design of a 200 mpg carburator?

Why don't you ask him how long since he stopped beating his wife?

[normanchateau]

Garbage, absolute nonsense.. Harper is governing to the left of centre...show one policy that would fit with what you think is an "image of neo-cons to the south. "

How about this?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2006/11/to..._vote_on_s.html

Or this?

http://www.straight.com/article-209473/bil...ld-fill-prisons

Or this?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...-is-obtuse.aspx

And do you really think that so-con Harper will allow parliament to discuss this?

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Change+wi...2251/story.html

[scribblet]

Well, how many things can I find wrong with your statement?

None - show me one policy that fits your description.

This is a hoot, the CPC are governing more like Liberals let the troglodytes on here continue their attempt to portray the CPC as so cons etc. LOL Try as you might, there is nothing 'so-con' about Harper.

[normanchateau]

Try as you might, there is nothing 'so-con' about Harper.

How about this?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2006/11/to..._vote_on_s.html

Or this?

http://www.straight.com/article-209473/bil...ld-fill-prisons

Or this?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/f...-is-obtuse.aspx

And do you really think that so-con Harper will allow parliament to discuss this?

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Change+wi...2251/story.html

[Martin Chriton]

Yes, today's CPC is made up of a a group of social and fiscal conservatives that seem to be trying as hard as they can to pass themselves off as liberals. Want more money...sure...gay marriage....we're all for that.

It's a minority government what do you expect?

[Smallc]

It's a minority government what do you expect?

I should expect excuses apparently. The fact is, so many say that Liberals stand for nothing and Conservatives are principled....I guess that isn't so right....is it?

[Dave_ON]

I know....he still won.

I suppose from a purely technical sense you are quite correct. Parliamentary politics are certainly not as cut and dry as a simple win/lose scenario. I'd hardly call a minority government, even as Mr. Harper is so fond of phrasing it, a "strengthened minority" a sweeping victory. There were a number of complex factors that led to a second CPC minority in the last election, most of which have changed and come next election parliament will look quite different, or so all current circumstances would seem to indicate. Either way I fail to see what you have added to this discussion, you haven't demonstrated any knowledge of who Mulroney is or was to Canada and you seem to lack a fundamental understanding of Canadian Politics in general. In fact the only posts I have seen from you are disparaging remarks about Canada. This is indeed a contradiction as, if you care so little for our Country and its people why do you waste your time on a forum that is clearly Canadian?

Let’s get back on topic. This leaves Harper in a rather difficult position. How is he to handle this whole affair? Mr. Harper has never been much a pragmatist. But he has one of two choices, he can throw Mulroney under the bus and risk alienating the old school Progressive Conservatives thereby eroding his base support and risk dividing the right again. Or he can defend Mulroney which will make him a hypocrite for railing on the Liberals so hard about the Ad Scam. Either way it is a difficult decision and I'll be interested to see how it all plays out.

[Molly]

It's something like that dichotomy now, but began as a false one. (I'd chalk Mr. Harpers dilemma up to 'self-inflicted wounds'.)

As Rex Murphy pointed out, one does not get to choose ones forebears. With or without a card, Mulroney is as credible a representative of Conservative politics in Canada as Harper-- maybe even moreso-- and the strings that bind that relationship are a lot stronger than his name appearing (or not) on a list.

So the dichotomy is this: Harper can comment either way on the 'under the bus' game, and bring even more attention to the pettiness of it and the immutability of the connection, or he can go mum about it, and hope folks will forget how petty it, was and how immutable the link.

The rest of the potential damage is already done.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Molly

[Oleg Bach]

Mulroney has lost his crediblity. Once you enter the weapons traded for profit and purchase equippment that in effect needlessly kills Canadian troops then your day in the sun is over.