israeli soldiers admit to war crimes

[KrustyKidd]

Has Israel recognized Palestine's right to exist?

It cuts both ways.

It does. While various agreements and accommodations (border crossings etc) exist to some degree, there certainly is no official Israeli policy to conduct a holy war against the Arab entity occupying the land of Israel.

[dub]

It does. While various agreements and accommodations (border crossings etc) exist to some degree, there certainly is no official Israeli policy to conduct a holy war against the Arab entity occupying the land of Israel.

hamas is honest and straight forward about what it wants. israel is not. all a person would need to do to know israel's agenda is to look at the increasing of the illegal settlements. the wall that has annexed palestinian land. not to mention the resistance to allowing a palestinian state to form. all of this has been happening for over 40 years. action always speaks louder than words.

Edited April 24, 2009 by dub

[DogOnPorch]

hamas is honest and straight forward about what it wants. israel is not. all a person would need to do to know israel's agenda is to look at the increasing of the illegal settlements. the wall that has annexed palestinian land. not to mention the resistance to allowing a palestinian state to form. all of this has been happening for over 40 years. action always speaks louder than words.

The usual total disregard for history.

1. The Grand Mufti.

2. The Suez Crisis.

3. The Six Day War.

4. The Yom Kippur War.

5. The PLO.

6. Hezbollah/Hamas.

All factors that figure in where the line is drawn.

Edited April 24, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[Army Guy]

hamas is honest and straight forward about what it wants. israel is not. all a person would need to do to know israel's agenda is to look at the increasing of the illegal settlements. the wall that has annexed palestinian land. not to mention the resistance to allowing a palestinian state to form. all of this has been happening for over 40 years. action always speaks louder than words.

Actions always speak louder than words, actions like rocket attacks, bombers, murders, the list is long for both sides....perhaps if the Hamas surrundered thier arms, and willing to talk without violence there may be peace....until then there will always be conflict...ball is in thier court, or is that a rocket.....

[KrustyKidd]

Actions always speak louder than words, actions like rocket attacks, bombers, murders, the list is long for both sides....perhaps if the Hamas surrundered thier arms, and willing to talk without violence there may be peace....until then there will always be conflict...ball is in thier court, or is that a rocket.....

Hamas charter states that negotiations will not happen. Peace may only be achieved through Jihad.

Duh

hamas is honest and straight forward about what it wants. israel is not. all a person would need to do to know israel's agenda is to look at the increasing of the illegal settlements. the wall that has annexed palestinian land. not to mention the resistance to allowing a palestinian state to form. all of this has been happening for over 40 years. action always speaks louder than words.

Hama kills people as a matter of policy to acheive their goals, Israel, while certainly taking adv antage of the animalistic policies of the refusal to negotiate by Hamas and other organizations similar to them, does not.

[dub]

Hamas charter states that negotiations will not happen. Peace may only be achieved through Jihad.

Duh

those may be true, but i'm not sure why you refuse to acknowledge the other side of the coin:

- likud, israel's prime minister's party has voted to never allow a palestinian state

- israel continues to build illegal settlements despite international law and even bush's peace plan which israel agreed to

- israel refuses to negotiate with hamas just like hamas refuses to negotiate with israel

those who want to engage in an honest debate, try to acknowledge the wrong and rights on all sides. unfortunately you're displaying that you're not here to engage in an open and honest debate.

Hama kills people as a matter of policy to acheive their goals, Israel, while certainly taking adv antage of the animalistic policies of the refusal to negotiate by Hamas and other organizations similar to them, does not.

look at the numbers and see which side has killed more innocent civilians. that again proves the point that you refuse to acknowledge the truth and are simply here to push your agenda.

[KrustyKidd]

look at the numbers and see which side has killed more innocent civilians. that again proves the point that you refuse to acknowledge the truth and are simply here to push your agenda.

The point that shows that Israel is perfectly capable of destroying every Palestinian yet does not? Or is it the point that Israel is powerful enough to stop Hamas from killing every Israeli in their official mission to eradicate the Zionist Entity?

Being an underdog does not by any means carry righteousness with it, nor does being powerful. When you start treating each state as an equal in your discussions, then it will be worth discussing this matter with you.

[dub]

The point that shows that Israel is perfectly capable of destroying every Palestinian yet does not?

you think they would be able to get away with "killing every single palestinian"? what a silly thing to say.

Or is it the point that Israel is powerful enough to stop Hamas from killing every Israeli in their official mission to eradicate the Zionist Entity?

there you go pretending that israel has been in a long battle with hamas. hamas has been in power for less than 10 years. their first attack inside israel was in 1994 that claimed 9 deaths. the attack was done in retaliation to an attack by an israeli 2 weeks earlier that killed over 39 people (palestinians claim 52 people).

the occupation and the killing of palestinians has been happening for way longer than hamas' short history. what about all the other decades that israel killed palestinians and continued to annex their land?

Being an underdog does not by any means carry righteousness with it, nor does being powerful. When you start treating each state as an equal in your discussions, then it will be worth discussing this matter with you.

thanx for the announcement and setting things straight, but my points still stands;

you are not here to have an open and honest debate. you're here to push your agenda by repeating selective information, half-truths and lies.

[KrustyKidd]

you think they would be able to get away with "killing every single palestinian"? what a silly thing to say.

If they wished to they could. Unlike Hamas and it's predecessors who have tried but have not, through inferior power have not.

there you go pretending that israel has been in a long battle with hamas. hamas has been in power for less than 10 years. their first attack inside israel was in 1994 that claimed 9 deaths. the attack was done in retaliation to an attack by an israeli 2 weeks earlier that killed over 39 people (palestinians claim 52 people).

And prior to that the Muslim Brotherhood, PLO etc. All have tried to kill Israelis with the stated goal of complete victory rather than co existence.

the occupation and the killing of palestinians has been happening for way longer than hamas' short history. what about all the other decades that israel killed palestinians and continued to annex their land?

It has been happening since 1948 when the Jews accepted the UN resolution and the Arab League did not.

thanx for the announcement and setting things straight, but my points still stands;

you are not here to have an open and honest debate. you're here to push your agenda by repeating selective information, half-truths and lies.

Both sides are wrong however, concentrating on one side's transgressions and convoluted reasoning while ignoring the others insane conviction that the only solution is the death of all the others is not worthy of any discussion above a Peanuts comic strip. Once you acknowledge that you have no dog in the race and that both sides are fucked up can you be free of your bias.

[Rue]

Has Israel recognized Palestine's right to exist?

It cuts both ways.

The fact you ask this question reflects you should have at least tried

to make an effort to research it before you asked it.

Of course they have and continue to have stated this since Israel came

into existence as a state and long before they came into existence as a state.

May I suggest you go read and research the topic then you won't ask such

questions and simply reflect your ignorance as to what has transpired.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Rue

[dub]

If they wished to they could.

they 'could', but the western governments around the world no longer would be able to support israel. israel would not be able to get away with more than the few thousands kills a year. even israel's powerful PR and lobby machine would not be able to sell israel's actions beyond what they're doing now.

without western governments' blessing, israel would not be able to continue to survive.

And prior to that the Muslim Brotherhood, PLO etc. All have tried to kill Israelis with the stated goal of complete victory rather than co existence.

the PLO recognized israel and its right to exist. they also agreed to the 1967 UN border.

what has israel done besides continue to increase the illegal settlements and continue to break international law?

these settlements continue to grow in the west bank today.

Both sides are wrong

this is your first time you've acknowledged this. good on you.

however, concentrating on one side's transgressions and convoluted reasoning while ignoring the others insane conviction that the only solution is the death of all the others is not worthy of any discussion above a Peanuts comic strip. Once you acknowledge that you have no dog in the race and that both sides are fucked up can you be free of your bias.

this goes back to the previous point; if israel was serious about recognizing and allowing a palestinian state to form, they would have done it by now. their actions have been different. the PLO, at least, accepted israel and the UN resolution. israel has not.

[KrustyKidd]

they 'could', but the western governments around the world no longer would be able to support israel. israel would not be able to get away with more than the few thousands kills a year. even israel's powerful PR and lobby machine would not be able to sell israel's actions beyond what they're doing now.

without western governments' blessing, israel would not be able to continue to survive.

Israel has a five hundred billion dollar economy selling weapons, pharmaceuticals, computer gear and much more to people all over the world that hates her. I'm sure that you could, in a moment, come up with a hundred examples of countries that are against her however, would be hard placed to find articles that approve of her.

the PLO recognized israel and its right to exist. they also agreed to the 1967 UN border.

what has israel done besides continue to increase the illegal settlements and continue to break international law?

these settlements continue to grow in the west bank today.

It's wrong. And Palestinians with their one trick pony terrorism feed the justification of those in Israel who are wrong.

this is your first time you've acknowledged this. good on you.

I'd say thanks but I do recognize that the two are locked in a here and now with no way out other than for Israel to surviv and Palestinians to either take what is offered or perish as a nation. It's reality be it right or wrong.

this goes back to the previous point; if israel was serious about recognizing and allowing a palestinian state to form, they would have done it by now. their actions have been different. the PLO, at least, accepted israel and the UN resolution. israel has not.

I doubt they would have done it considfering there has never been a strong legitimate Palestinian authority to deal with that can keep miliaent factions at bay and to refrain from committing the terrorist attacks that cause Israel grief.

[Rue]

Israel has a five hundred billion dollar economy selling weapons, pharmaceuticals, computer gear and much more to people all over the world that hates her.

Curious where did you get the above figure from?

(I by the way agree that I think if there was no terrorism, Israel having turned into a state that is virtually one large military-industrial complex would not have evolved to the extent it has-I mean had there been peace maybe they would have stuck to diamond trading and exporting oranges and maybe just medical research)

[M.Dancer]

Curious where did you get the above figure from?

(I by the way agree that I think if there was no terrorism, Israel having turned into a state that is virtually one large military-industrial complex would not have evolved to the extent it has-I mean had there been peace maybe they would have stuck to diamond trading and exporting oranges and maybe just medical research)

54 Billion is more accurate

[KrustyKidd]

54 Billion is more accurate

Yes. Sorry for the mistake. Source

Now you can all say that you told me a million times not to exaggerate.

[Rue]

Yes. Sorry for the mistake. Source

Now you can all say that you told me a million times not to exaggerate.

You mean 5 hundred billion times. There you go again.