Chrysler already working behind the scenes to pull out of Canada: sour

[Alta4ever]

Judging by the conduct of large corporations in recent years, I think they're looking distinctly like they did fifty years ago.

If weren't bailing tthem out, and lettin gthe bad business model die, you wouldn't have to worry about that would you.

[Oleg Bach]

The upper guys at Chrysler have one set of instructions before they leave Canada - See if you can steal some of that Canadian federal money before you leave and bring it state side to be distributed amoungst our friends.

[ToadBrother]

If weren't bailing tthem out, and lettin gthe bad business model die, you wouldn't have to worry about that would you.

I quite agree, though I do understand that the bailouts are designed to prevent a major collapse (not they've done a stellar job). One of the major complaints against the Hoover Administration after the market collapse in 1929 was that the Federal Government down in the US was too slow in its efforts to get capital flowing again.

Letting the auto industry collapse outright, as opposed to a controlled burn (which is what I think the US is contemplating even if they're not outright saying it) may be the better way to go, but at my core, I find giving taxpayer money to companies like Chrysler, who were already in bad shape during the "good times" just seems wrong.

[Oleg Bach]

These industries collapsed twenty years ago. They were collapsed by the people who cut the trade deals with foreign car makers. It was cheaper to import and to profit than create here and profit. The profits were higher and easier to attain through importation...if this was not the case - then we would not have this situation. Some one domestically made a killing our of killing the auto industry - that they let live like a zombie - faking it...It has been a ruse - now they are tired of keeping up the fraud and have become honest under the pretense that the industry has suddenly and finally collapsed - It's been dead for some time - and to hand money to a corpse - and have the grave digger run off with it is not acceptable.

[Alta4ever]

I quite agree, though I do understand that the bailouts are designed to prevent a major collapse (not they've done a stellar job). One of the major complaints against the Hoover Administration after the market collapse in 1929 was that the Federal Government down in the US was too slow in its efforts to get capital flowing again.

Letting the auto industry collapse outright, as opposed to a controlled burn (which is what I think the US is contemplating even if they're not outright saying it) may be the better way to go, but at my core, I find giving taxpayer money to companies like Chrysler, who were already in bad shape during the "good times" just seems wrong.

It has been proven time and time again the companies that treat employee's badly get bad productivity and high turnover resulting in an bad product or service.

[Oleg Bach]

It has been proven time and time again the companies that treat employee's badly get bad productivity and high turnover resulting in an bad product or service.

If you compare the inflated rate of renumeration of auto executives as compared to unionized auto workers - in comparisson - the auto worker is working for minimum wage..both the unions and management have been raping and pillaging a corpse for some time now.

[ToadBrother]

It has been proven time and time again the companies that treat employee's badly get bad productivity and high turnover resulting in an bad product or service.

That's rather cold comfort when you're deprived benefits or fired on trumped up charges because the HR director's nephew needs a job. The whole point of a union is a bunch of workers banding together to take management on. There's nothing wrong with that. The problem usually comes when the management of the union starts behaving in a bad fashion. But then again, we see that with corporations. In theory shareholders should be the masters of the company, in reality top-level management and the board run the show any ol' damn way they please.

The solution is simple. Secret ballots for unions and for corporations, the requirement that all bonuses and benefits for upper-level management be voted on by the shareholders (and that management and members of the board be forced to convert their stock to non-voting).

[Alta4ever]

That's rather cold comfort when you're deprived benefits or fired on trumped up charges because the HR director's nephew needs a job. The whole point of a union is a bunch of workers banding together to take management on.

The solution is simple. Secret ballots for unions and for corporations, the requirement that all bonuses and benefits for upper-level management be voted on by the shareholders (and that management and members of the board be forced to convert their stock to non-voting).

Better than holding consumers hostage. Develop some brass and talk to you boss, if the compnay won't give ou what you want find anotherone.

So you want a worker who has no taken no risk in the company to have a say in how management is paid....HAHAHAHAH buy some stock in sthe company if you want a vote if not you are not an owner and should have no say. If management is bad the shareholders will fire them.

[ToadBrother]

Better than holding consumers hostage. Develop some brass and talk to you boss, if the compnay won't give ou what you want find anotherone.

So you want a worker who has no taken no risk in the company to have a say in how management is paid....HAHAHAHAH buy some stock in sthe company if you want a vote if not you are not an owner and should have no say. If management is bad the shareholders will fire them.

This is all lovely in theory. In reality it don't work that way. And yes, employees should have some say in their working conditions.

[Alta4ever]

This is all lovely in theory. In reality it don't work that way. And yes, employees should have some say in their working conditions.

And if they don't like them they have the right to leave those working conditions. If the working conditions are below the standards set by you province by a government that was elected by the votes of everyone, then they have the right to compensation and the company bettering the working standards. If you pissed because you neighbour can buy a boat and you can't, and demand a raise, then tough cookies. Find a better job and increase you skillset or live in the conditions you have set for yourself through the training and career advancement you decided on when you entered that job.

[ToadBrother]

And if they don't like them they have the right to leave those working conditions. If the working conditions are below the standards set by you province by a government that was elected by the votes of everyone, then they have the right to compensation and the company bettering the working standards. If you pissed because you neighbour can buy a boat and you can't, and demand a raise, then tough cookies. Find a better job and increase you skillset or live in the conditions you have set for yourself through the training and career advancement you decided on when you entered that job.

Or exercise your constitutional right to free assembly, form a union and negotiate with the management.

[Oleg Bach]

Connie Black must be thrilled that his life time dream of seeking revenge against the unions has finally come true..but remember his contempt of the unions trickled upwards to contempt of the share holders also. You must take care of the people that actually enriched you. The off shoring of jobs is a clear sign of the abandonment of workers and their children - where is the class and the loyality?

[Alta4ever]

Or exercise your constitutional right to free assembly, form a union and negotiate with the management.

If I were management the day tha thappened I would shut down the business and walk away.

[Oleg Bach]

If I were management the day tha thappened I would shut down the business and walk away.

Thats what they are doing - and taking tax payers money with them.

[ToadBrother]

If I were management the day tha thappened I would shut down the business and walk away.

What, the day workers dared doing something legal and constitutional? Wow, so only management has rights in your utopia... interesting.

[Alta4ever]

What, the day workers dared doing something legal and constitutional? Wow, so only management has rights in your utopia... interesting.

The workers have rights, their rights are outlined in legisation that was set forth by the government elected by the people that would include these workers. Don't ever pretend that the workers rights aren't protected, and that they have choices. They have all these things, unions exist now for one thing and one thing only power and greed.

The day workers tried to extort money from me would be the day all of their jobs ended the business owuld be shut down and the assets liquidated. Nobody would hold me hositage. If my money started the business I took on the financial risk, not the union, they could the ban together and buy the assetts restart the business, or find new jobs. They can try to extort someone else with this type of legalized organized crime.

[ToadBrother]

The workers have rights, their rights are outlined in legisation that was set forth by the government elected by the people that would include these workers. Don't ever pretend that the workers rights aren't protected, and that they have choices. They have all these things, unions exist now for one thing and one thing only power and greed.

And the purpose of private enterprise is what? If power and greed are wrong, then so is private enterprise.

The day workers tried to extort money from me would be the day all of their jobs ended the business owuld be shut down and the assets liquidated. Nobody would hold me hositage. If my money started the business I took on the financial risk, not the union, they could the ban together and buy the assetts restart the business, or find new jobs. They can try to extort someone else with this type of legalized organized crime.

Blah blah blah blah blah. You're like of those pathetic libertarian broken records. Since I doubt you're any great business mogul, this is just some sort of exercise in intellectual masturbation "Oooh, those dirty employees, how dare they expect anything from me!"

[Alta4ever]

And the purpose of private enterprise is what? If power and greed are wrong, then so is private enterprise.

Blah blah blah blah blah. You're like of those pathetic libertarian broken records. Since I doubt you're any great business mogul, this is just some sort of exercise in intellectual masturbation "Oooh, those dirty employees, how dare they expect anything from me!"

Employees can expect fair treatment, they just better not act on thier envy by creating a union, and that is what it is that sta rts them nowadays envy.

[jdobbin]

Would you want the Manitoba economy to tank because of extreme safety standards? .

This country has gone to hell and a hand basket since they stopped letting children work in the mines.

[Alta4ever]

This country has gone to hell and a hand basket since they stopped letting children work in the mines.

Right take it out of the relm of the rational to the relm of the irrational to justify your position, nice.

[jdobbin]

Right take it out of the relm of the rational to the relm of the irrational to justify your position, nice.

Is it? If you get rid of all safety and labour laws as some Tories want, you can pretty much do anything.

[Oleg Bach]

This country has gone to hell and a hand basket since they stopped letting children work in the mines.

Yes they were shorter and the tunnels could be smaller increasing profits..

[jdobbin]

Yes they were shorter and the tunnels could be smaller increasing profits..

They also used less oxygen and ate less.

[Alta4ever]

Is it? If you get rid of all safety and labour laws as some Tories want, you can pretty much do anything.

What tories want that you better provide cites.

[jdobbin]

What tories want that you better provide cites.

You aren't against minimum wage laws? Do I need a cite for that?