MacKay to NATO: consider all candidates

[jdobbin]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

The Washington Post reported Sunday that U.S. Vice President Joe Biden would be promoting Mr. MacKay's candidacy to “reward Canada for its valiant combat performance in Afghanistan.” The White House would try to build support for Mr. MacKay by offering to grant France other key appointments within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

“The United States will agree to let French generals take over two commands currently held by Americans to smooth the way for this symbolically important step,” the Post reported, citing European sources.

McKay should take the job. If he is hoping to be leader again at some point, he might find that some time away from Canada in a recession is the right move. I doubt very much if he will be successful at the top job if he does stay as Defence minister or in any other capacity under Harper.

[Moonbox]

Get off that sinking ship while you can. It doesn't matter who's in charge right now. After the recession they're going down.

[Oleg Bach]

Why would Biden put Mckays name forward - I sure hope McKay has matured and grown some brains since that Belinda affair - boy that was stupid...they should have had children - the zoos need new primates.

[jdobbin]

Get off that sinking ship while you can. It doesn't matter who's in charge right now. After the recession they're going down.

I'd have no problem supporting him as head of NATO. He is certainly is capable of it. The recognition coming from the U.S. is that Canada has shown leadership as a country since 2003 and McKay has shown some leadership in the position as head of Defence. I can't imagine that O'Connor would have gotten the job offer.

[jdobbin]

Why would Biden put Mckays name forward -

So that a non-European choice is considered.

I sure hope McKay has matured and grown some brains since that Belinda affair - boy that was stupid...they should have had children - the zoos need new primates.

Anyone who doesn't have between 10 and 15 children is not doing enough for their country.

[blueblood]

I'd have no problem supporting him as head of NATO. He is certainly is capable of it. The recognition coming from the U.S. is that Canada has shown leadership as a country since 2003 and McKay has shown some leadership in the position as head of Defence. I can't imagine that O'Connor would have gotten the job offer.

If your theory is true, there is one variable, and that is how long McKay wants to make a go at a political career in the long run. If he's in it for the long haul, I'd say take this job because it's going to be chaos in Canadian politics throughout the year and if another minority gov't gets elected.

[Progressive Tory]

McKay should take the job. If he is hoping to be leader again at some point, he might find that some time away from Canada in a recession is the right move. I doubt very much if he will be successful at the top job if he does stay as Defence minister or in any other capacity under Harper.

I think he should take the job if it's offered. I know he's been vying for it. An endorsement from the U.S. could be a positive factor, who knows? It would be nice to see it go to a Canadian, though Harper seems less than impressed. Maybe he wanted the job.

MacKay's NATO bid off to a dubious start

His blustering over the Russian planes could hurt his chances though, since NATO and the U.S. have been trying to forge better relationships with that country. The Russian Minister of Defense called Mckays actions a 'farce' and one candidate for the job is expected to be out of the running for hurting those negotiation.

"NATO's fragile political status will loom large in the decision-making process, which is expected to conclude in time for the leaders' summit in France in April. While some members of the military alliance want to expand the organization to include Georgia and Ukraine, taking it to the doorstep of Russia, others want to improve relations with the former superpower. Sikorski, for example, is known as a fierce anti-Russian..."

How can McKay negotiate with Russia after that cheap stunt for attention?

[Canadian Blue]

How can McKay negotiate with Russia after that cheap stunt for attention?

Are you talking about how CF-18's were scrambled to protect our airspace. As well if you read the article you'd note that Sikorski is fiercely anti-Russian, thus putting Mackay in a positive light despite the fact he has this crazy idea that Canada's national airspace should be protected.

But one thing to know about diplomacy is that you want someone who is firm, not some weak kneed individual who would bow down to any demands given by a hostile state. Reagan was able to discuss issues with Gorbachev even though Reagan called the USSR an evil empire, which it was if you ever bothered to read the Gulag Archipelago.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Canadian Blue

[Progressive Tory]

Are you talking about how CF-18's were scrambled to protect our airspace. As well if you read the article you'd note that Sikorski is fiercely anti-Russian, thus putting Mackay in a positive light despite the fact he has this crazy idea that Canada's national airspace should be protected.

Nato is trying to improve relations with Russia, and McKay may have already burned that bridge. Sikorski probably has as well since they're looking for Russia-friendly candidates. I'm not saying it takes McKay out of the running, but won't help his chances either.

According to Norad, the Russian planes were performing routine exercises, as they had 20 times before over the last two years. It was a week later when Mackay started looking for headlines so made this out to be a 'national threat'. Our military did their job, just as they had the 20 times before, by letting them know they were there and making sure they didn't invade our airspace. They had it covered and Russia knew the boundaries. They were quite surprised at the sham suggesting they didn't.

[Canadian Blue]

According to Norad, the Russian planes were performing routine exercises, as they had 20 times before over the last two years. It was a week later when Mackay started looking for headlines so made this out to be a 'national threat'. Our military did their job, just as they had the 20 times before, by letting them know they were there and making sure they didn't invade our airspace. They had it covered and Russia knew the boundaries. They were quite surprised at the sham suggesting they didn't.

Actually, the media reported on it because it happened while Obama was in Ottawa. Russia has been doing this often despite the complaints are country has had.

By the way, here is what Peter Mackay said which is hardly what you made it out to be:

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32473.aspx

"At no time did Russian planes enter Canadian airspace," Defence Minister Peter MacKay told a news conference Friday. "But within 24 hours of the president's visit to Canada last week we did scramble two F-18 fighter planes.

"They met. The Russian aircraft was approaching Canadian airspace and, as they have done on previous occasions, (the Canadians) sent very clear signals that were understood: that aircraft was to turn tail and head back to its own airspace. Which it did."

Their is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be more firm with Russia in defending our airspace, I realize you don't think much of the military but sometimes we can't just get on our knee's for any hostile government. The Canadian government has always told the Russian government to respect our boundaries, they have not in recent years.

Any person who is more willing to side with Putin over Peter Mackay is a moron.

[August1991]

Why would Biden put Mckays name forward - I sure hope McKay has matured and grown some brains since that Belinda affair - boy that was stupid...they should have had children - the zoos need new primates.

Oleg, I will answer your good question - if true.

I suspect Harper spoke to Obama about this, and then Biden proposed this.

It solves a problem for Harper, and advances the career/life/ambition of McKay, and may even help the Obama Administration.

Such is bureaucracy, and politics, and life. (Oleg, you are basically wrong. Life is more beautiful and complicated than you imagine.)

Edited March 10, 2009 by August1991

[Radsickle]

MacKay Jr., even without the early-political-years thick glasses, is the dolt who, weirdly in charge of the PC at the time, allowed the merger between the respectful Progressive Conservative Party and Harper's Reform/CRAP party.

Don't know what the PC were thinking when they chose him. I saw that, like Harper, he's part of this political breed that thinks if they can hold their posture and pronounciate the buzz-words properly, they'll have power. I didn't think Mr. Biden would be so obtuse. Didn't he do any research?!?! Maybe it's a backroom deal like "We'll back off Oil Sands Development if you let Peter run NATO for a year or two."

Edited March 10, 2009 by Radsickle

[Progressive Tory]

Maybe it's a backroom deal like "We'll back off Oil Sands Development if you let Peter run NATO for a year or two."

Since the job usually goes to Europeans, who have not been as supportive of the U.S. role in the Middle East, Biden may hope to have an ally he can count on. Harper will go to any war, anywhere. McKay will say or do anything if it gives him a bit of press.

[Progressive Tory]

Actually, the media reported on it because it happened while Obama was in Ottawa. Russia has been doing this often despite the complaints are country has had.

If the Americans had thought for even half a second that the president was in danger, he wouldn't have come. It was bluster.

MacKay targets Russian bomber

February 28, 2009

The Canadian Press

OTTAWA (Feb 28, 2009)

Moscow and Ottawa are engaged in a war of words after Defence Minister Peter MacKay announced yesterday that Canadian and U.S. fighter jets intercepted a Russian bomber and signalled it to "turn tail" over the high Arctic on the eve of American President Barack Obama's visit.

MacKay suggested the timing of the incident was suspect, but the Russians called the flight routine and indicated they were baffled by the fuss. The announcement yesterday morning of the Feb. 18 encounter raised questions about why MacKay chose to highlight it.

Norad said there have been about 20 such aerial contacts between Russian and American or Canadian planes since 2007.

The Russian Defence Ministry was categoric. Russian planes have not approached Canada's borders and Canadian authorities were informed about the flight, it said. A spokesman called MacKay's statements "nothing but farce."

No Russian aircraft actually entered Canadian airspace, but MacKay suggested the timing of the incident was worthy of note.

Russian air force spokesperson Lieutenant-Colonel Vladimir Drik said the flight had been planned in advance and was part of routine patrols. His statement, carried by the state-owned RIA Novosti news agency, said the crew acted according to international agreements and did not violate Canadian air space.

The Russian Defence Ministry also issued a statement in response to MacKay's claims. "During the flight, Russian bombers strictly followed international flight regulations and excluded the very possibility of violating Canadian air space," Russian Defence Ministry spokesman Alexander Drobyshevsky said. "Border countries have been notified about the flights." He said the only recent flight carried out by a Tu-160 bomber took place last Wednesday. "The statements by Canada's defence minister about flights of our aircraft are absolutely incomprehensible," Drobyshevsky said. "They are nothing but farce."

"The question is why is Mr. MacKay stating these things now?" Dewar said. "And where is the co-operation here that we need to see between polar countries? "I think what Peter might be doing here is trying to go back to the '50s and play a little Cold War. Well, I'm sorry, but you know what? If he wants to play a game of Risk in his basement, that's up to him, but it has no place in terms of diplomacy."

Pilots tend to consider the intercepts a symbol of status rather than of hostile action, often exchanging smiles while taking photographs and video at 30,000 feet or so.

"Russian long-range activity is part of their training exercises and so we do see this," said Canadian navy Lieutenant Desmond James, a spokesman at Norad headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. "We don't treat it as a hostile intent as much as a training exercise.

There have been "easily more than 20" such encounters sinsince mid-2007, James said. Similar flights have occurred elsewhere.

It was bluster, but by damaging our reputation with Russia and Norad, McKay may have lost his chance at the Nato job. Hopefully they don't hire blustering idiots, who will risk security for headlines.

[Canadian Blue]

If the Americans had thought for even half a second that the president was in danger, he wouldn't have come. It was bluster.

MacKay targets Russian bomber

They never said Obama was in danger, they merely pointed out that it happened while Obama was visiting. I'm surprised that Canadian's wouldn't want the Russians to notify us before they fly sorties nearing our airspace.

"The question is why is Mr. MacKay stating these things now?" Dewar said. "And where is the co-operation here that we need to see between polar countries? "I think what Peter might be doing here is trying to go back to the '50s and play a little Cold War. Well, I'm sorry, but you know what? If he wants to play a game of Risk in his basement, that's up to him, but it has no place in terms of diplomacy."

Ironically enough Dewar wants Canada to get out of NORAD and NATO, so we likely wouldn't even have the capability to protect our airspace. Nice job on not quoting the entire article by the way.

It was bluster, but by damaging our reputation with Russia and Norad, McKay may have lost his chance at the Nato job.

How exactly is our reputation damaged with NORAD? You do know what NORAD is right. The thing is that this is hardly as damaging to our reputation as the reaction Europe had when Russia invaded George or when they slaughtered Chechens.

Hopefully they don't hire blustering idiots, who will risk security for headlines.

Hopefully they don't hire pacifists who don't have a clue what NATO or NORAD is. First of all, NATO has always been in conflict with Russia, whether it be over Kosovo or Georgia. Second, you're opinions somewhat moot because it seems you're not in favour of us having a national defence at all.

As well I don't take your opinion seriously because you seem to think that we should placate the Kremlin at all times. I'll tell you the truth, I would rather have someone the head of NATO who is willing to tell the Russians when enough is enough as compared to another Chamberlain.

[normanchateau]

MacKay Jr., even without the early-political-years thick glasses, is the dolt who, weirdly in charge of the PC at the time, allowed the merger between the respectful Progressive Conservative Party and Harper's Reform/CRAP party.

Don't know what the PC were thinking when they chose him.

The PCs chose MacKay because he promised not to merge with Harper's Alliance. Here's the deal MacKay made to become PC leader:

http://www.davidorchard.com/online/campaig...hard-mckay.html

If Harper wants to get rid of a potential backstabber lusting for his job, this NATO job is perfect. And for MacKay, he gets to chair a few important-sounding committees and mingle with senior diplomats and military brass while living the lavish life of a coddled dignitary.

[capricorn]

Elizabeth May must have her fingers crossed that McKay lands the job. With him out of the way, her chances of winning Central Nova are all but assured.

This appointment is not a done deal. I may be wrong but I can't recall NATO naming someone simply as a gesture of thanks to a nation for its service. IMO the Europeans will get their way and their preferred candidate will get the nod.

[jdobbin]

Elizabeth May must have her fingers crossed that McKay lands the job. With him out of the way, her chances of winning Central Nova are all but assured.

I don't know that is guaranteed at all. I suspect the Tories will still do well. If anyone else wins, it might be the NDP.

This appointment is not a done deal. I may be wrong but I can't recall NATO naming someone simply as a gesture of thanks to a nation for its service. IMO the Europeans will get their way and their preferred candidate will get the nod.

If they had a candidate they could agree with. McKay might be the compromise.

[capricorn]

I don't know that is guaranteed at all. I suspect the Tories will still do well. If anyone else wins, it might be the NDP.

The NDP got just short of 20% of the vote last election to May's 32%. Throw a Liberal candidate in the mix and I suppose it could happen.

If they had a candidate they could agree with. McKay might be the compromise.

And not much time left for a decision. Hmmm.

[jdobbin]

The NDP got just short of 20% of the vote last election to May's 32%. Throw a Liberal candidate in the mix and I suppose it could happen.

I was thinking of the boost the NDP may get if they win the election in Nova Scotia.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story...s-cra-poll.html

According to CRA, the NDP has 36 per cent of support from decided voters, compared to 31 per cent for the Liberals and 30 per cent for the Tories. About 37 per cent of those polled said they were undecided.

That's a pretty close result but a NDP minority is what is predicted.

And not much time left for a decision. Hmmm.

Long shot but probably helped with a push from the U.S.

[Muddy]

If I had my druthers I would leave NATO to the Europeans. Most of them are fair weather warriors anyway. Let them defend themselves. A new alliance of Great Britian, Canada and USA should be created. NATO no longer has credibility.Other than the Dutch who else has done any heavy lifting ,putting their soldiers in harms way? NATO is a paper tiger now. Way back when it was a viable organization when they were made of sterner back bone.

[M.Dancer]

.Other than the Dutch who else has done any heavy lifting ,putting their soldiers in harms way?

The dutch?

The Dutch have lost 18 soldiers. By comparison....

Spain 25

France 24

Germany 28

Denmark 21

[normanchateau]

If I had my druthers I would leave NATO to the Europeans. Most of them are fair weather warriors anyway. Let them defend themselves. A new alliance of Great Britian, Canada and USA should be created. NATO no longer has credibility.Other than the Dutch who else has done any heavy lifting ,putting their soldiers in harms way? NATO is a paper tiger now. Way back when it was a viable organization when they were made of sterner back bone.

Given the backbone MacKay exhibited when he sold out the PCs to Harper, he'd fit right in.

[Progressive Tory]

Nice job on not quoting the entire article by the way. Hopefully they don't hire pacifists who don't have a clue what NATO or NORAD is.

Second, you're opinions somewhat moot because it seems you're not in favour of us having a national defence at all.

I provided a link to the article, since many were shortened to support Mckays theatrics. Read between the lines. Norad knew. Canadians knew. It was routine. 20 times before without sputtering from Mackay or anyone, because they knew there was nothing to sputter about.

He needed headlines to help his bid for the job. It was a farce and with Nato and the U.S trying to cozy up to the Russians, Mckay looked like a moron with his pretended threat to our national security. God if we had to depend on him, we might as well all bend over and kiss our butts goodbye. He'd sell us to the highest bidder.

I do support a Defense Department and a well trained, well equipped military to engage in Peacekeeping Missions. I don't support an Offense Department to act as cannon fodder for aggression.

I live in a military town and have the utmost respect for our soldiers here and abroad. Anytime I'm out and I meet men and women in uniform, I always ask if my grandson can shake their hand. I want him to be as proud of them as I am. I do support our troops and want them all to return alive. War should be an absolute last resort, not a knee jerk reaction. It only encourages false flag wars and the lure of profit.

[Progressive Tory]

This appointment is not a done deal. I may be wrong but I can't recall NATO naming someone simply as a gesture of thanks to a nation for its service. IMO the Europeans will get their way and their preferred candidate will get the nod.

I think he's still a longshot, and my comment before about Russia, may have made it even longer. One candidate, who was considered to be the top contender, may be turned away because of his public dislike of Russia.