Government introduces tough anti-gang legislation

Jean_Poutine · February 28, 2009

Lock'em up and throw away the key. The simple truth is that the world will be a better place without these idiots around.

guyser · February 28, 2009

Lock'em up and throw away the key. The simple truth is that the world will be a better place without these idiots around.

Which idiots? The politicians for there wonderful "feel good wont do a damn " legislation or someone else you are thinking of?

Oleg Bach · February 28, 2009

Which idiots? The politicians for there wonderful "feel good wont do a damn " legislation or someone else you are thinking of?

We should get an anti-idot legislation going...that locks up the freaks who drafted up our immigration polices What were they thinking when they opened our western doors to those of the Pacific Rim nations where gangism is normalacy - You would think that we would have learned our lesson when we opened up the doors to all sorts of dope shipped from there - including herione - which was the begining (about 1953) of the revenge for ruining the east by selling their young opium - This was the begining of the dope crazed 60s...where we lost thousands of brilliant young leaders to dope..who should be serving in government now! China did not forgive us for destroying their potential leadership - which open the door to communism.. Governments in the orient (east) - still believe they have an old score to still settle - and they send us their crimminals to destablize the nation..wake up folks - we trade with them - but they are not our friends.

blueblood · February 28, 2009

We should get an anti-idiot legislation going...

You just walked into whatever burn comes your way...

Do I have to or are there any takers...

Oleg Bach · February 28, 2009

You just walked into whatever burn comes your way...
Do I have to or are there any takers...

Why bother reading the materials and be informed - If you were informed years ago ---- You screen your immigrants - not just let them in because the bring in a few hundered grand to "stimulate the economy" - well they are stimulating it now --- do you want BC to be like Mexico - revamp the deportation laws and start shipping the trash back!

Oleg Bach · February 28, 2009

And by the way - don't wait for takers - you go for it big boy :rolleyes: all in fun - you guys are starting to like me...but sorry - I have to run...As the great Scythian chief messaged back Darius the Great of Persia...who insisted on combat with the out numbered Scyths........as they rode over the hill never to be seen again "Go home and weep" I am a surivor - so chase if you will - I am off to flirt with the cougars --- I'm lonely.. :rolleyes: Apparently you are too - so get out of the house and shut down the machine...You have the day off - It's on me. :lol:

Oleg Bach · February 28, 2009

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories
I don't doubt that the legislation will pass with support but I don't know that it will have a big difference to those in gangs who are fighting over a very profitable drug industry.

Like Miller who wants to ban the gun and perhaps the rock.. Where are our statesmen that will address these crimminals directly and set them straight - to late for legislations..You have to intimidate them - and humiliate the crimminals ----- When I worked on set I knew this tough special forces cop that was an advisor to the film industry - He told me stories about know bank robbers from Montreal that would come to Toronto to rob --- The big tough cops would locate them at their hotel prior to a the planned robbery...They would go there and beat the crap out of the robbers and say - get out of town - and they would - Maybe we need some quiet soviet style cops...Miller is a lefty - should be right up his alley. :lol:

Oleg Bach · February 28, 2009

Like Miller who wants to ban the gun and perhaps the rock.. Where are our statesmen that will address these crimminals directly and set them straight - to late for legislations..You have to intimidate them - and humiliate the crimminals ----- When I worked on set I knew this tough special forces cop that was an advisor to the film industry - He told me stories about know bank robbers from Montreal that would come to Toronto to rob --- The big tough cops would locate them at their hotel prior to a the planned robbery...They would go there and beat the crap out of the robbers and say - get out of town - and they would - Maybe we need some quiet soviet style cops...Miller is a lefty - should be right up his alley.

All big cocaine money goes eventually into the banking sector - stop accepting it...problem sloved.

jdobbin · February 28, 2009

Lock'em up and throw away the key. The simple truth is that the world will be a better place without these idiots around.

Anyone who has smoked pot?

Oleg Bach · February 28, 2009

Anyone who has smoked pot?

Now you are being silly - talked to a young indi record executive - great conversation untill his stupid cocaine kicked in ---chronic use of pot is not good for you...moderation and one must have sober days....as for the previous comment - as a friend of mine said the other day in regards to civilizing legislation "some do not want to be saved" - those that do not want to be part of sweet civilization - give them a choice - submit or be destroyed....all the laws will mean nothing unless you PUT DOWN THE LAW...AND HARD...If we do not act now - we will be like Mexico - where evil rules - do you want that?

Wilber · February 28, 2009

All indications are that should we legalize it, or decriminalize it, then it will go a very long way to solving the problem.
Just as prohibition did not eradicate drunks, it did reduce crime.

What indications?

Obama 's office released a statement today saying the Feds were going to stop infrimging on states rights w respect to drug laws,thus the states can make up their own minds. This also has the DEA stopping raids on cultivation spots in Cali, no more raids or med mary jane shops and cafes.

Maybe so but will he legalize production on of the stuff? Will he legalize importation? Until that happens it doesn't matter what states do. If the US legalizes marijuana that will kill the market for imported grass all by itself without us doing anything but until they do, we will have organized crime producing it here. I've been saying all along that anything we can do depends a lot on what happens the other side of the border.

I don't see any state legalizing crack cocaine, crystal meth or many other designer drugs.

DrGreenthumb · February 28, 2009

What indications?
Maybe so but will he legalize production on of the stuff? Will he legalize importation? Until that happens it doesn't matter what states do. If the US legalizes marijuana that will kill the market for imported grass all by itself without us doing anything but until they do, we will have organized crime producing it here. I've been saying all along that anything we can do depends a lot on what happens the other side of the border.

I don't see any state legalizing crack cocaine, crystal meth or many other designer drugs.

The US is by FAR the biggest supplier of US pot, mexico is a distant second, Canada's contribution to the US drug supply is a drop in a bucket. Anyways pot being imported to the states is THEIR PROBLEM. Maybe if they start searching a lot more cars they will catch some of the a-holes who are smuggling guns INTO Canada. WE should redeploy all our narcs and green team fake cops to border security. NOBODY should go to jail for their personal choice to interact with nature's plants. People who support the drug war are the ones who should sit in a jail cell for a year and see how they like it. They are the ones responsible for all the violence that accompanies the illegal drug trade.

Jean_Poutine · February 28, 2009

Which idiots? The politicians for there wonderful "feel good wont do a damn " legislation or someone else you are thinking of?

And your answer is what, more social workers because the criminals are actually victims?

jdobbin · February 28, 2009

Now you are being silly -

Put down the law. Those are your words. Pot is against the law. Sellers require buyers.

Jean_Poutine · February 28, 2009

NOBODY should go to jail for their personal choice to interact with nature's plants. People who support the drug war are the ones who should sit in a jail cell for a year and see how they like it. They are the ones responsible for all the violence that accompanies the illegal drug trade.

I see, so it's the people that don't get involved in such stupidity that are responsible? And when you have self-inflicted health problems, they're also responsible for sharing the cost of health care.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Jean_Poutine

Smallc · February 28, 2009

And when you have self-inflicted health problems, they're also responsible for sharing the cost of health care.

Ummm...that's the way that health care always works in Canada for the most part.

eyeball · February 28, 2009

I see, so it's the people that don't get involved in such stupidity that are responsible? And when you have self-inflicted health problems, they're also responsible for sharing the cost of health care.

Oh you see, really? So when's the last time you marched in front of a liquor store to call for the criminalization of booze and protest the public cost of government-enabled fetal alcohol syndrome?

Some 50% of the prisoners you're paying to have housed in federal institutions in this country as said to suffer from FAS. Figures the one drug that's actually proven to cause criminal impulses is the one the government sells.

Its almost funny but not really.

KingIggy · February 28, 2009

Well, that's not going to change! It's Prohibition all over again!
Millions of Canadians use drugs. Most of them likely "soft" drugs like marijuana but still, huge numbers. They don't accept the rationale behind the prohibition laws and find the chances of getting caught remote. So they ignore the laws and buy the products, just like bootleg liquor with Al Capone.

To me, anti-drug laws are the ultimate in social conservatism. Also the ultimate in futility. Legalization would wipe out huge areas of organized crime overnight.

Sure makes a lot of criminals rich, though.

Meanwhile, we always have a place available in a jail for a kid caught smoking a joint but we have months-long waiting periods for hard core users who want to get clean.

The entire situation is a smoke and mirrors joke delivered by politicians looking for photo ops from the Ned Flanders contingent.

And the rest of us Canadians have to pay for the show with our taxes.

Very well said.

It's important to distinguish cannabis from harder drugs (like crystal meth and crack) which are extremely addictive and lethal. Since cannabis is a very widely used *soft* drug, it's important to learn from the history of failed alcohol prohibition and stop empowering organized criminals and thugs by handing them the entire cannabis industry. When you give the criminals control over the production and distribution of cannabis, you make the Al Capone's of the world very happy and brutally powerful.

Are Labatts and Nabob fighting turf wars, and killing people ? No.

WestViking · February 28, 2009

Some 50% of the prisoners you're paying to have housed in federal institutions in this country as said to suffer from FAS. Figures the one drug that's actually proven to cause criminal impulses is the one the government sells.

Please provide a source for you contention.

WestViking · February 28, 2009

Millions of Canadians use drugs. Most of them likely "soft" drugs like marijuana but still, huge numbers. They don't accept the rationale behind the prohibition laws and find the chances of getting caught remote. So they ignore the laws and buy the products, just like bootleg liquor with Al Capone.

Really? please provide a source for your contention.

Meanwhile, we always have a place available in a jail for a kid caught smoking a joint but we have months-long waiting periods for hard core users who want to get clean.

How is it that you conclude that only casual drug users will be caught while hard core users get a free pass?

Progressive Tory · February 28, 2009

Please provide a source for you contention.

I don't know about the 50% of all prisoners, but I do know it's high. However 55% of children with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome do end up in prison.

The fetal alcohol crisis

Alcoholism is a social disease. A lot of domestic violence is a result of alcohol abuse and it has long been a defense for abusive actions. 'He only hits me when he's drunk. When he's sober he's a great guy'. How often have we heard that one?

Wild Bill · February 28, 2009

Prohibition was south of the border not in Canada so why do you think they will stop shooting each other if we legalize it here and it stays prohibited in the US?

There were shootings in Canada in those days as well! Like the scene today with pot grown in Canada there were incredible amounts of alcohol smuggled into the USA from Canada. There were competing interests on this side of the border that used violence against domestic competitors. However, it is obvious that the number of shootings in Canada would drastically diminish and that would be a plus for us at least.

Still, personally I couldn't care less if Canadian drug lords continue to shoot each other! Saves us some tax money to deal with them.

As for the US, if Canada were to legalize pot it would force the Americans to objectively examine their approach. I realize that a mouse like us living next to an elephant should not "tug on Superman's cape" but still, morally we have no reason to give a damn about their feelings. We export pot to the USA. In return, they send us guns and heroin. If they were a bit more aggressive in protecting us perhaps we might owe them something in return.

Meanwhile, they are merely being pikers demanding something for free.

As P T Barnum once said: "Makers, takers and fakers. There are no other kinds."

Edited February 28, 2009 by Wild Bill

Wild Bill · February 28, 2009

Really? please provide a source for your contention.

What planet do you live on? I thought I didn't get out much myself!

Anyhow, a quick google gave pages and pages of links but I didn't think you'd accept anything from legalization lobby groups so here's this one:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/11/24/...tudy041124.html

"The survey found that 45 per cent of Canadians have used marijuana at least once in their lifetime. About 70 per cent of those aged 18 to 24 reported using the substance.

Males were more likely than females to use pot, as were those who have never been married.

The study found the use of cocaine and crack also rose from 0.7 per cent in 1994 to 1.9 per cent in 2004.

Overall, it found that the use of illicit drugs by Canadians at least once in their lifetime rose from 28.5 per cent in 1994 to to 45 per cent in 2004."

That was from a Canadian government study group. Please note that the use of cocaine and crack is "mice nuts" compared to the pot numbers.

Here's something from the CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/drugs/users.html

"Well, we can officially call ourselves Toker Nation now. According to the 2007 World Drug Report by the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, Canada has the dubious honour of leading the industrialized world in marijuana use, at least when calculated as a percentage of population.

According to the UN report, which is a staple of police forces around the world, 16.8 per cent of Canadians between the ages of 15 and 64 smoked pot or ingested one of its derivatives last year."

To be honest, I had mixed feelings about using the CBC as a reputable source but what the hell...they have to be more "real" than what YOU are implying!

Finally, here's one from York University. Always good to get the lawyers' view! It starts off citing the same UN Report but adds to it after a few paragraphs.

http://osgoode.yorku.ca/media2.nsf/83303ff...33;OpenDocument

"Eugene Oscapella, an Ottawa-based lawyer who specializes in drug policy issues, said the UN report shows that the legal status of marijuana in a given country seems to have little bearing on consumption rates.

The report found that only 6.1 per cent of people in the Netherlands, where marijuana use has effectively been decriminalized, reported trying pot.

This shows decriminalization has no bearing on rates of use, and Canada shouldn't be so afraid to follow the Dutch lead, Oscapella said.

``The criminal law does not prevent people from using marijuana, nor does legalization force people to use it,'' he said."

These links are only the tip of the iceberg. Really, I was surprised that you would question the numbers, given that they have been public knowledge for so long. We are all entitled to our opinions but as far as the magnitude of the number of pot smokers in Canada goes, asking for sources is like a Creationist asking for sources on evolution.

I hope for their sake that Harper's team is not under a similar misconception. Vastly underestimating the number of pot users in Canada when formulating new, stronger laws could trigger a very negative backlash at election time. It would be a shame if this precipitated a change in government when frankly there are many more urgent matters to be resolved. They would be as vulnerable to campaign mockery as Stockwell Day was to Kinsella's "Barney the Dinosaur" shot.

Wilber · February 28, 2009

The US is by FAR the biggest supplier of US pot, mexico is a distant second, Canada's contribution to the US drug supply is a drop in a bucket. Anyways pot being imported to the states is THEIR PROBLEM. Maybe if they start searching a lot more cars they will catch some of the a-holes who are smuggling guns INTO Canada. WE should redeploy all our narcs and green team fake cops to border security. NOBODY should go to jail for their personal choice to interact with nature's plants. People who support the drug war are the ones who should sit in a jail cell for a year and see how they like it. They are the ones responsible for all the violence that accompanies the illegal drug trade.

It's not just their problem. The Canadian share of the US market is irrelative, the fact is, the US is Canada's biggest market for the stuff. As long as it is illegal in the US, organized crime will be involved in the trade just as it was during prohibition.

Just as a matter of interest, what makes you think that municipal police forces should be responsible for border security? That is the federal governments responsibility and it's time they actually did it instead of sitting in booths at border crossings while local cops paid for by local tax payers look after the rest of the border. Even when they do have an incident at a border crossing, they have to call the local police to deal with whomever they detain. They can't act like a regular law enforcement agency on their own. We have a road called 0 Avenue which parallels the border all the way from the Pacific crossing to the Huntington crossing, around 40 km. There are probably half a million Canadians living within 20 km of that road. It goes through farm country with nothing but a narrow shallow ditch between it and the US. The only border guards you ever see patrolling it are on the US side. Canadian border security my ass.

Edited February 28, 2009 by Wilber

Wilber · February 28, 2009

Still, personally I couldn't care less if Canadian drug lords continue to shoot each other! Saves us some tax money to deal with them.

There have been at least four innocent people killed in the past 18 months, two mistaken identity, two just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and were executed with four others. One of those was a gas fitter who was doing a repair at the site and the other was a neighbouring kid who just happened to be walking down the hall at the wrong time. The next time someones car gets shot up in front of you by guys with automatic weapons in the middle of the day, just as you are walking out of the supermarket in your local mall, as happened in suburban Langley earlier in the month, you may change your tune.