Is Ignatieff politically incompetent?

[Oleg Bach]

I'm not sure where you are coming from with the drug bit....

If you are talking to me...and I assume you may be. The drug bit is something that I witness duing my adventures in the low end of the system. Yes there is an abuse taking place and it is funded by tax payers - but the average tax payer does not benefit...If you do not understand the concept that about 50 years ago big buisness took over our social agencies and geared them to suit the needs of the elite. There was originaly a group called the Community Chest - they were kind and benevolent Christian and Jewish ladies from rich families ----THEN their high powered executive husbands pushed the kind females aside and created agents like The United Way - Childrens Aid Societies...and now these are huge burecracys opperate as social control devices...that are really not out to serve the public but to control them.

Check out "Marriage of Convienence" from about 1957 - it was the beging of the death of real charity in this nation and it's replacement with an almost Orwellian system of sinisterism - under the guise of benevolence. Look at the expensive ads run by the U W - one such ad shows a homeless man under a dingy bridge pushing a shopping cart - then with the HELP of United Way...the poor wretch is pushing a pallet on wheels in the same dark and dank environ - but a factory...instead of placing the poor man behind a desk in a clean shirt they enslave him..This is charity? Also: If there is a tax deduction for charitable donations...and the giver is gaining by giving then it is not giving. I have seen agents funded by the United Way who snatch children away from parents - and THAT child then employs a dozen parasitic professionals..and the child if they present any enegetic leadership abilities that do not fit there lowly class - they are drugged and ruined...That's what I saw ---sorry...to tell you.

[85RZ500]

Yes, but he may squeek thru with this one. He blinked big time and let the budget pass at the same time agreeing with the islanders that the budget was shafting them. Then why didn't he have the backbone to just say no?

And the Harperites baffle me. I couldn't let the Liberals have that blatant perceived control over my efforts.

Bah! ain't politics grand?

[Martin Chriton]

And the Harperites baffle me. I couldn't let the Liberals have that blatant perceived control over my efforts.

What part of minority is hard to understand?

[Bryan]

Like I said a couple of days ago: Mr. Dithers 2.0. Flip-flop, flip-flop. He will be easier to defeat than Dion was.

Now that the budget has passed, I'm watching for the "define Iggy as a bad leader" ads to start soon.

[Progressive Tory]

Could be a sign of things to come from Ignotieff as in wishy washy.

Damned if they do and damned if they don't. Harper supporters are always condemning Jack Layton for not allowing his caucus free vote. Since coming to power Harper doesn't even allow his caucus free speech.

We now have a Liberal leader who told his MPs from Newfoundland that they must do what they were elected to do and show their constituents that they are listening. Former Conservative Bill Casey tried that and got fired.

MPs are elected to bring their constituent's concerns to Parliament to help shape policy. The Reform Party used to listen to the grassroots. This new Party sets policy and then goes back and trys to sell it.

I'm sorry, but in a democracy, the people of Newfoundland deserve representation and their MPs are now on record as saying they put their people first. I respect that Ignatieff allows them to do that.

Hail to Iggy! Champion of Free Speech.

[Progressive Tory]

This is the first parliament has passed in 10 months thanks Harper. I think we need to thank Iggy for putting it behind him and making sure Canada has a government of some kind.

Well said. Ignatieff knew that Canadians were tired of the drama and wanted our government to...well...govern.

Former British Prime Minister, Benjamin Disraeli once said: "I must follow the people. Am I not their leader?"

There's a big difference between a good leader and a good dictator. If I was still voting Conservative I would be ashamed that not one Conservative MP stood up for their principles. That's what I'd take with me next election.

[Progressive Tory]

I saw a poll recently which said Canadians overwhelmingly support Ignatieff's decision to vote for the budget...including 65% of Conservatives. I would have preferred an election, this budget is a mess, and now Harper gets to wear Bob Rae's mantle as deficit boy.

Yes it was posted here. Unlike many comments, he did not wait for the poll numbers, but took control of the situation. The poll numbers followed confirming that his decision was the right one.

[Progressive Tory]

Looking at his face and eyes before I heard him speak he looked like a very tough and dangerous warrior...a man of natural primative power...a leader. Once I heard him vocalize..I was disappointed..there was no force of character that I expected from the image. He was watery -- and his attempt to sound like the challenging statesman..was feeble...I was really hoping that the poor liberals would have found a guy with some umpff. Apparently the side effect of liberal conditioning is de-masculinization.

When he needs to get fired up, he gets fired up. When we need a calm voice, he can do that too. Fist pounding doesn't make you masculine. It only covers an inability to get your message across without resorting to cheap tricks. I love that he speaks to Canadians in a clear voice and in a language we can understand.

Years of teaching at Ivy League schools has given him that ability.

[Progressive Tory]

We should all vote liberal and get it over with

I'm stuck on your first statement. Excellent advice. The best Conservative supporters can do now is hold their noses before casting their ballots, because there is no longer a Party devoted to Conservative principles.

[Progressive Tory]

Then why didn't he have the backbone to just say no? And the Harperites baffle me. I couldn't let the Liberals have that blatant perceived control over my efforts.

As the future Prime Minister of Canada he knows that he must represent the interests of Canadians', not his own personal agenda. This had gone on long enough. A three month stay of execution is more prudent. This was not a 'Get out of jail free' card. The conservatives are on probabtion with Canadians and Harper is on probation with his Party. This is a good thing for everyone.

[Progressive Tory]

Now that the budget has passed, I'm watching for the "define Iggy as a bad leader" ads to start soon.

The Conservatives would be very unwise to pull something like that now. It drove voters away last election and if they want to keep them away, start running those ads outside of an election campaign.

Ignatieff is not Dion. The Conservative ads turned people off, but there was no one to be turned on to as an alternative. Canadians will get turned on by Harper's parole officer. He out bullied the bully and outsmarted boy wonder.

[Bryan]

The Conservatives would be very unwise to pull something like that now. It drove voters away last election and if they want to keep them away, start running those ads outside of an election campaign.

The ads worked very well. CPC got an increased seat count, and the Liberals got their second worst showing ever. And, the LPC stabbed their own leader in the back, twice, and the coronation of Iggy that resulted further divided them. Going that route was a very good idea.

As the future Prime Minister of Canada.....

Iggy will never be PM.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Bryan

[Keepitsimple]

I'm stuck on your first statement. Excellent advice. The best Conservative supporters can do now is hold their noses before casting their ballots, because there is no longer a Party devoted to Conservative principles.

When the Conservatives "stick to their principles", they are accused of following a right-wing ideology and harbouring a "hidden agenda". It may be uncomfortable for Liberals and a little complicated for our shallow media, but Harper has been steering the Conservatives to the center ever since he became PM. That's where the majority of Canadians hang their hat. A cynic would say he's pandering for votes. A proponent would say he's broadening the Conservative tent. You are seeing the Conservatives evolving to a Centrist party with a Conservative backbone. That evolution has been sped up because of the unique economic situation.....but it makes clear the fact that Harper is a pragmatist who is not driven by ideology.

[madmax]

I don't believe Iggy is an incompetent. He is arrogant, self absorbed and considers himself the smartest person in the room.

The only reason that the CPC are talking about IGGY is because of Harpers Fiscal Folley last November.

IGGY did nothing more to lift the LPC then did DION after that blatent attack on the LPC. IF the funding measure gone through, APRIL 1ST would be the 30 day notice before the DEATH of the Liberal Party.

Harpers rush for a fast kill cornered the badger and it fought back.

But IGGY was not part of that fight. In fact, had Dion smartly stepped aside, I doubt Iggy would have been able to gain the leverage of a coalition under any circumstances. Because he didn't believe in it. The Coalition was the only measure, the BQ and the NDP that actually gave the LPC a chance to fight for its life against the CPC attack.

Just as it wasn't DION who stood the LPC on their feet, it was the POLITICAL DEATH presented by the CPC that gave them no other choice. Dion just happened to be the tool of the time. Had Dion then stepped aside, and allowed an interim leader of the coalition, it would not likely be IGGY but someone neutral.

Fate again took over. DION stayed, Dion proved himself a stooge and did such a remarkable job, that the LPC, still in DESPERATE LIFE SUPPORT MODE, had to do something quickly.

Again, all these radical and major changes in direction and leadership of the LPC were driven by Harpers RUSH to kill off the Liberals.

IGGY did not orchestrate this, but was in the right place at the right time in a party that had no money to hold a Leadership convention. This fear of destruction allowed the LPC to buy into the coronation for the survival of the party.

The budget is more posturing. The LPC couldn't fight an election under any circumstances. Iggy wasn't a believer in the coalition from the start. And the CPC put forth a budget that makes sense to nobody but is accepted by a majority both in the house and in the minds of the public.

I don't believe IGGY is incompetent. Dion proved himself incompetent by missing his National Televised Address.

I don't believe that Iggy is anything other then a politician, and his historical track record shows that he has more in common with the Prime Minister on issues like Iraq.

Iggy supports torture. THere is a point of torture that he says is too much torture. But he believes in a level of torture to interogate for information.

arper put the LPC backs against the wall, IGGY knows well enough there is still no room to step back, and no power to step forward. A lateral move along the wall is the only option for the LPC and this is hardly a surprise to anyone.

[Shakeyhands]

He is arrogant, self absorbed and considers himself the smartest person in the room.

After reading your post, I had an idea of what arrogance really is... Good luck with that.

[jordan.ray]

Is Ignatieff incompetent for letting his Newfoundland MP's free vote?

The way I see it, unless Ignatieff wants all of Newfoundland to vote New Democrat in the next election, which could be sooner than anyone thinks, he should not alienate one person: Danny Williams.

The guy's in a tough position. His party has no cash, a recent history of ambiguous leadership, and his own reputation as a politician is relatively fresh. The balancing act this man must undergo to keep from poking the final hole in the Liberal ark is and continues to be difficult. Not only can he not alienate Williams, but he has only so much wiggle room between Stephen Harper and the Canadian people.

Edited February 4, 2009 by jordan.ray

[Progressive Tory]

The ads worked very well. CPC got an increased seat count, and the Liberals got their second worst showing ever.

The numbers don't lie, and despite his bravado; Harper knows exactly what the numbers mean. The Liberals were down by 850,000 votes; but none of that vote loss went to the Conservatives. In fact, they were down themselves by 170,000 votes. This should have been Harper's Majority. One million votes down the drain.

Attack ads are one thing but when you fail to inspire, you cannot claim victory.

143 seats is still a Minority and the parliamentary crisis showed just how worthless they are. The fact that the Conservatives had to turn away from every single principle that a Conservative stands for, just to hang onto power, is proof of that.

[Hydraboss]

First of all, Danny Williams acts like a squalling babe that just had his soother taken away. Grow the hell up, child.

As for Iggy, I haven't heard enough of him to make a decision on whether the man is competent or not. Here's the question of the day, though:

For both Liberal and PC's out there...would you still have the same feelings about him if he was the leader of the liberal-lite Conservatives?

The man has no work history in reality (prof in another country) - how Liberal of him

The man supports the war in Iraq - how Conservative of him

The man supports torture "within reason" - how redneck of him

The man obviously doesn't like the NDP - how "everybody" of him

The man keeps his MP's on a very short chain - how Conservative/Liberal of him

If I knew more about him, I might be inclined to vote for him. Except he's a Liberal and I could never do that and live.

[Molly]

Allowing the NL block nay vote was obvious.... and Bill Casey should have been given the same courtesy.

MPs should never be forced into such a black and white choice-that-is-no-choice between party loyalty and loyalty to the people who sent them there. A party hack is a waste of skin; a decent representative is much more.

As to this exercize in flinging mud at Ignatieff to see if anything sticks? There's no clay in the mix yet. So far he's doing just fine. Unless the budget was a execrable as the fiscal update, an election or government change at this time would be completely irresponsible.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Molly

[Progressive Tory]

I don't believe Iggy is an incompetent. He is arrogant, self absorbed and considers himself the smartest person in the room.

Actually, it's Harper who is usually accused of thinking he's the smartest person in the room. For Ignatieff, he is the smartest person in the room.

However, while this diatribe is amusing, one million votes are still one million votes. He stole them from the Liberals, but then fenced them for beans. His majority was there. 850,000 votes up for grabs. Poof! He not only lost those but 170,000 people who voted for him last time just stayed home. So near and yet just so darn far.

Stephen Harper is not a leader.

[Progressive Tory]

After reading your post, I had an idea of what arrogance really is... Good luck with that.

I think the correct term is delusional.

[Progressive Tory]

Is Ignatieff incompetent for letting his Newfoundland MP's free vote?

Not only can he not alienate Williams, but he has only so much wiggle room between Stephen Harper and the Canadian people.

Stephen Harper has closed up that wiggle room himself. He's got his own problems wiggling back to the Conservative base.

As to Danny Williams, the ABC campaign proved that he is not a man you want to anger. He didn't earn a Rhodes Scholarship by being stupid.

Bottom line. Ignatieff knew that Newfoundlanders were upset with losing one a half billion dollars promised to them by the Conservatives. If their MPs had voted for the budget they would have sent the message that they support being screwed. It was a symbolic gesture since the budget passed anyway.

I would have liked to see one or two symbolic gestures from the Conservatives. Choosing power over principles, proved they no longer have any.

[Mr.Canada]

I'm stuck on your first statement. Excellent advice. The best Conservative supporters can do now is hold their noses before casting their ballots, because there is no longer a Party devoted to Conservative principles.

We cannot trust the Liberals after getting in bed with separatists and the hard left socialists. What would they give Quebec if in power? Would Layton have a seat in cabinet as a confidant?

NL is no longer a have not province. They don't need the equalization now. It isn't meant to be taken forever without putting into it. The Premier is now being punished for his ABC crap. NL'ers won't make the same mistake again. The Tories will regain their seats.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Topaz]

I like to hear opinions about the transfer of the equalization payments to all provinces, especially to NFLD. I think all provinces should be FAIRLY treated and if they can make money on the side, as in oil , both Alberta or NFLD, they shouldn't be penalized for it. Williams even offered to help out Ontario at one point. Harper appears to have a "problem" with the Atlantic provinces fromn way back.

[Progressive Tory]

As for Iggy, I haven't heard enough of him to make a decision on whether the man is competent or not. Here's the question of the day, though:

1. The man has no work history in reality (prof in another country)- "Ignatieff volunteered for the Liberal Party during the 1965 federal election by canvassing the York South riding. He resumed his work for the Liberal Party in 1968, as a national youth organizer and party delegate for the Pierre Elliott Trudeau party leadership campaign....An award-winning author, he has also worked as a journalist and documentary film-maker....During this time (in the UK) he was a member of the faculty at both the University of Cambridge and the University of Oxford, and worked as a film-maker and political commentator for the BBC....He lived in the United States from 2000 to 2005; there, he was director of Harvard's Carr Center for Human Rights Policy. He returned to Canada in 2005 and took a position as a visiting professor and senior fellow of the Munk Centre for International Studies at the University of Toronto. Not bad for having no work history.

2. The man supports the war in Iraq - "Supported"

3. The man supports torture "within reason" - Read his paper on torture. He uses the phrase "for those of us who oppose torture are we leaving ourselves vulnerable to terrorist attacks?" It was written to provoke intelligent debate - not dictate policy.

4. The man obviously doesn't like the NDP - It's called politics. He never said he doesn't like the NDP only questioned Jack Layton's decision to oppose the budget without seeing it. The attack ads from the NDP were aimed at him for using common sense.

5. The man keeps his MP's on a very short chain - Allowed them to vote against the budget. How not so Conservative of him.

6. If I knew more about him, I might be inclined to vote for him. Refusing to vote for a person just because they're Liberal. How very Conservative of you.