How the Conservatives will win their majority

[Argus]

Reform didnt have any principles (so to speak) nor does Harper..... unless of course you mean stuff like the concept of the non-starter platform item called an elected Senate.

This is just ignorant and stupid. It doesn't matter if you don't like a party. You should at least be capable of being honest with yourself, if not others. I don't like the NDP at all. I think their ideas are largely idiotic, but I concede they're mostly well-meaning, and definitely have principals.

Reform had a lot of principals, but they've gradually abandoned them since becoming the Alliance and now the Conservatives. I'm not sure if they have many left, if any. Which makes them pretty similar to the Liberals.

[Who's Doing What?]

Are you writing in from a mental health care facility?

Don't look but he is in the room next to you.

[jbg]

It doesn't look like Igantieff has many left wing social engineering ideas, and his foreign policy appears to be pretty much in synch with Harper.

Typical of the firm convictions Liberals don't have. Just watch Obama veer right as well. Ever the case with the political Left: "Talk left, govern mush".

[jbg]

JUst out of curiosity why are most of the big business owners and bank owners liberal? Demarais, Irvings ect.

Because of their overarching concern for the common man, for "Joe Lunchbucket". </ sarcasm>

[Topaz]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor.../20090201?hub=Q On Question Period today, Tom Flanagan, talked about how some Tories supportrs are very angry at Harper because of the budget and his time as leader could be coming soon. Edited February 1, 2009 by Topaz

[jbg]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor.../20090201?hub=Q On Question Period today, Tom Flanagan, talked about how some Tories supportrs are very angry at Harper because of the budget and his time as leader could be coming soon.

Should be Tory supporters. Is "Question Period" a Canadian TV show or is it "Question Period" in Parliament?

[Born Free]

....That's why our banks are still strong ---good old fashioned frugality and kindly power mongering. Harper will always practice hypocricy...hypocricy is the very base for buisness....and all lawyers know one thing ----It may be immoral but it's legal...ha ha..

The Banks in Canada are strong because they are tightly regulated....never forget that. It's NOT because of conservative or frugal CEO's. The Banks in the US are (or perhaps were in deep doo doo) because of unethical CEO's.... a plague that seems to have pervaded Corporate America. I am quickly reminded of Enron and of course the tobacco giants in Canada that skirted their taxes to the tune of billions.

Your finding some perverse pleasure as you watch your PM employ such blatant hypocricy is puzzling.

Oh well... onward and upward....

[Born Free]

This is just ignorant and stupid. It doesn't matter if you don't like a party. You should at least be capable of being honest with yourself, if not others. I don't like the NDP at all. I think their ideas are largely idiotic, but I concede they're mostly well-meaning, and definitely have principals.

Reform had a lot of principals, but they've gradually abandoned them since becoming the Alliance and now the Conservatives. I'm not sure if they have many left, if any. Which makes them pretty similar to the Liberals.

Sorry you feel that way.... Most voters are perhaps a suseptable to confusing what's in a party platform with its founding principles.

Perhaps you dont understand that The Reform Party would never have become a national party based on its then governing principles/platform and leader. I assume that you can agree with what's in the list for the todays version of the party principles....perhaps you can elaborate on what should be added, changed or deleted.....

I am being perfectly honest.... I hope you can be.

The Conservative Party will be guided in its constitutional framework and its policy basis by the following principles:

A balance between fiscal accountability, progressive social policy and individual rights and responsibilities;

Build a national coalition of people who share these beliefs and who reflect the regional, cultural and socio-economic diversity of Canada;

Develop this coalition, embracing our differences and respecting our traditions, yet honoring a concept of Canada as the greater sum of strong parts;

The Conservative Party will operate in a manner accountable and responsive to its members;

A belief in loyalty to a sovereign and united Canada governed in accordance with the Constitution of Canada, the supremacy of democratic parliamentary institutions and the rule of law;

A belief in the equality of all Canadians;

A belief in the freedom of the individual, including freedom of speech, worship and assembly;

A belief in our constitutional monarchy, the institutions of Parliament and the democratic process;

A belief in the federal system of government as the best expression of the diversity of our country, and in the desirability of strong provincial and territorial governments;

A belief that English and French have equality of status, and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and Government of Canada;

A belief that the best guarantors of the prosperity and well-being of the people of Canada are:

The freedom of individual Canadians to pursue their enlightened and legitimate self-interest within a competitive economy;

The freedom of individual Canadians to enjoy the fruits of their labour to the greatest possible extent; and

The right to own property;

A belief that a responsible government must be fiscally prudent and should be limited to those responsibilities which cannot be discharged reasonably by the individual or others;

A belief that it is the responsibility of individuals to provide for themselves, their families and their dependents, while recognizing that government must respond to those who require assistance and compassion;

A belief that the purpose of Canada as a nation state and its government, guided by reflective and prudent leadership, is to create a climate wherein individual initiative is rewarded, excellence is pursued, security and privacy of the individual is provided and prosperity is guaranteed by a free competitive market economy;

A belief that the quality of the environment is a vital part of our heritage to be protected by each generation for the next;

A belief that Canada should accept its obligations among the nations of the world;

A belief that good and responsible government is attentive to the people it represents and has representatives who at all times conduct themselves in an ethical manner and display integrity, honesty and concern for the best interest of all;

A belief that all Canadians should have reasonable access to quality health care regardless of their ability to pay; and

A belief that the greatest potential for achieving social and economic objectives is under a global trading regime that is free and fair.

[Born Free]

Should be Tory supporters. Is "Question Period" a Canadian TV show or is it "Question Period" in Parliament?

There is a timeslot in Parliament refered to as Question Period...where the opposition gets to ask embarassing questions of the government and get a bunch of non-answers (note the sarcasm)

Its also TV show with the same name.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/show...d-Home/20060425

Edited February 1, 2009 by Born Free

[Bryan]

Reform didnt have any principles

Probably the most patently false statement ever made on these forums. Reform had the strongest and most clear principles of any federal party, probably ever.

The issue is, Harper gave away the store back to the old PCs that caused all the problems within the right in the first place. We never should have given up one-member-one-vote. It's obvious now why that was so important for the old PCs.

I can handle it if there is not enough support for honesty and principle in politics to get a majority. Perhaps Preston did take Reform as far as it was going to go. What I don't understand are these people who are attached to the WORD "conservative", but whose actions and policies push things as far to the left as possible. These people are not conservatives by any definition of the word, yet there they are every time like dirty shirts doing everything they can to make the CPC (and the PC before it) more liberal than the Liberal Party. I just wish those people would FOAD. I'd rather be in opposition and be right, than in power and have to give up everything. At least in opposition, we were the ones forcing the Liberals to compromise.

[Born Free]

Probably the most patently false statement ever made on these forums. Reform had the strongest and most clear principles of any federal party, probably ever.

The issue is, Harper gave away the store back to the old PCs that caused all the problems within the right in the first place. We never should have given up one-member-one-vote. It's obvious now why that was so important for the old PCs.

I can handle it if there is not enough support for honesty and principle in politics to get a majority. Perhaps Preston did take Reform as far as it was going to go. What I don't understand are these people who are attached to the WORD "conservative", but whose actions and policies push things as far to the left as possible. These people are not conservatives by any definition of the word, yet there they are every time like dirty shirts doing everything they can to make the CPC (and the PC before it) more liberal than the Liberal Party. I just wish those people would FOAD. I'd rather be in opposition and be right, than in power and have to give up everything. At least in opposition, we were the ones forcing the Liberals to compromise.

You dont know me so perhaps you didnt realize that my comment was simply being srcastic. Perhaps you could list what those Reform principles were that have been abandoned by Harper and what ones you see in the current list that should be removed....

So there is no confusion here... I vote Conservative but am not a Harper fan in the least. As I have indicated earlier, I hate it when a leader thinks the people are so stupid that we wont notice his lack of ethics. My disgust for Chretien was no less visceral (I like that word).

Governing to the center is what people want....or at least it garners the most support. The old Reform guys werent interested in that. Not even close. Neither is the NDP.

[Argus]

A balance between fiscal accountability, progressive social policy and individual rights and responsibilities;

Build a national coalition of people who share these beliefs and who reflect the regional, cultural and socio-economic diversity of Canada;

Develop this coalition, embracing our differences and respecting our traditions, yet honoring a concept of Canada as the greater sum of strong parts;

The Conservative Party will operate in a manner accountable and responsive to its members;

A belief in loyalty to a sovereign and united Canada governed in accordance with the Constitution of Canada, the supremacy of democratic parliamentary institutions and the rule of law;

A belief in the equality of all Canadians;

A belief in the freedom of the individual, including freedom of speech, worship and assembly;

A belief in our constitutional monarchy, the institutions of Parliament and the democratic process;

A belief in the federal system of government as the best expression of the diversity of our country, and in the desirability of strong provincial and territorial governments;

A belief that English and French have equality of status, and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and Government of Canada;

A belief that the best guarantors of the prosperity and well-being of the people of Canada are:

I'm not talking about motherhood and apple pie nonsense. I'm talking about genuine complaints Canadians had with a number of national policies for many years which were either utterly ignored or disdained by all three of the major parties. Those complaints included the senate, included immigration, official bilingualism, pouring money into/sucking up to Quebec, the death penalty, abortion, political corruption and patronage, MPs who represented the government to the people rather than the reverse, and an overgrown federal government with its fingers stuck into every concievable pie.

Harper now embraces the senate as a home for political bagmen, wide open immigration with no guidelines or goals, official bilingualism with all it's waste and unfairness, increased transfer payments to Quebec by 74% and gave them virtually everything they asked for, won't say a thing about abortion or the death penalty, slaps a straight jacket on all his MPs, and is about to deliver the biggest federal budget in history, with a huge deficit with no real goal but staying in power. If he has any ideas, any vision to solve problems like health care, we haven't heard a thing about them.

And the only reason anyone can suggest to vote for him is the Liberals are the same. Well being the same as the Liberals doesn't inspire me to go vote for someone.

Reform championed the idea of responsible, minimalist government doing the right thing, not the politically expedient thing. Harper is the soul of expediency, and damn what's right.

[Born Free]

I'm not talking about motherhood and apple pie nonsense. I'm talking about genuine complaints Canadians had with a number of national policies for many years which were either utterly ignored or disdained by all three of the major parties. Those complaints included the senate, included immigration, official bilingualism, pouring money into/sucking up to Quebec, the death penalty, abortion, political corruption and patronage, MPs who represented the government to the people rather than the reverse, and an overgrown federal government with its fingers stuck into every concievable pie.

Harper now embraces the senate as a home for political bagmen, wide open immigration with no guidelines or goals, official bilingualism with all it's waste and unfairness, increased transfer payments to Quebec by 74% and gave them virtually everything they asked for, won't say a thing about abortion or the death penalty, slaps a straight jacket on all his MPs, and is about to deliver the biggest federal budget in history, with a huge deficit with no real goal but staying in power. If he has any ideas, any vision to solve problems like health care, we haven't heard a thing about them.

And the only reason anyone can suggest to vote for him is the Liberals are the same. Well being the same as the Liberals doesn't inspire me to go vote for someone.

Reform championed the idea of responsible, minimalist government doing the right thing, not the politically expedient thing. Harper is the soul of expediency, and damn what's right.

Only a small minded regional party (as was the Reform party) would dream of attempting to dump Canada's Bilingualism policy which is entrenched in the Constitution.

As I implied in an earlier post, an elected Senate was never going to happen and can only be described as a non-starter.

The Death penalty and imposing a ban on abortions are also non-starters.

Examining the formula for transfer payments is definitely something worth dealing with and should be. As disgusting as it is, political patronage will always be with us. The Reform & Alliance folks just never got the chance to show us their style. Live with it.

Health Care is under provincial jurisdiction and it would appear that none of the main principals (ie the PM and the Premiers) seem to have a magic solution other than tossing a lot more money at it.... money that we dont seem to have.

As far a the federal deficit goes, well thats a horse of another colour. That could be discussed forever and I dont have the energy. Ironicaly, it was the Liberals that managed to turn the deficit into a surplus and we all managed to survive it.

You made it quite clear to me earlier that you were talking party principles and acused me of being dishonest. Your post is discussing the Reform party platform. Could you now perhaps elaborate on what principles the current Conservative party have declared vs. and what ones the old Reform party abandoned.

Maybe if we are lucky, the Conservative party will dump Harper sooner than later.

[Argus]

Only a small minded regional party (as was the Reform party) would dream of attempting to dump Canada's Bilingualism policy which is entrenched in the Constitution.

I'm willing to bet you haven't the first idea what official bilingualism involves, or its cost. You're talking out of pure ignorance.

As I implied in an earlier post, an elected Senate was never going to happen and can only be described as a non-starter.

The Death penalty and imposing a ban on abortions are also non-starters.

What exactly does "non starter" mean? It means liberals don't want to discuss them so Harper doesn't dare even bring them up? Over the years anywhere from 30%-70% of Canadians have wanted a return to the death pentalty, yet it's a "non starter" because liberals consider the case closed. Yet homosexual marriage wasn't even on the table in the Chretien years, and even the Liberals had to work hard to reassure their own caucus that the party did not support same sex rights and had no intention of doing anything to aid in that coming to pass. Why? Because the opinion polls told them it was a "non starter" with the great majority of voters. A few short years later the Liberals were frantically replacing commitee membes with gay-friendly ones to get same sex legislation passed, and a dedicated media campaign had managed to convince the population at large, at least in the cities, that anyone who even questioned same-sex marriage was akin to an Iranian Ayatola. As for abortion, I don't want a ban. I'm not even sure what I want, but I do think, and I believe a lot of other Canadians, perhaps evena majority think that there ought to be some legislation governing it. And currently there is nothing.

It seems to me that once the left gets a policy in place it likes it starts they throw up a wall of insults and moral accusations against anyone who even wants to talk about it. And Harper has bowed to that and thrown away his principals.

Health Care is under provincial jurisdiction and it would appear that none of the main principals (ie the PM and the Premiers) seem to have a magic solution other than tossing a lot more money at it.... money that we dont seem to have.

Not good enough. Health care is a national problem which crosses all borders. A true national leader would move to fix the problems, even if that meant taking control from the provinces. And I don't care if they raise taxes if the money is going to go to fixing health care. I don't think most Canadians do.

As far a the federal deficit goes, well thats a horse of another colour. That could be discussed forever and I dont have the energy. Ironicaly, it was the Liberals that managed to turn the deficit into a surplus and we all managed to survive it.

And Harper turned it into a deficit again even without regard to this current economic downturn and the enormous "economic incentive" program, by boosting payments to arts groups, to Quebec, and to other programs the Conservatives had previously fought to curtail.

You made it quite clear to me earlier that you were talking party principles and acused me of being dishonest. Your post is discussing the Reform party platform. Could you now perhaps elaborate on what principles the current Conservative party have declared vs. and what ones the old Reform party abandoned.

As far as I'm aware the current Conservative party has no principals of any kind. The best I can say about them is they're not as corrupt as the Chretien/Martin Libeals were, and are a bit more competent in general, as well as being a lot less self-righteous and shrill.

[Alta4ever]

Only a small minded regional party (as was the Reform party) would dream of attempting to dump Canada's Bilingualism policy which is entrenched in the Constitution.

As I implied in an earlier post, an elected Senate was never going to happen and can only be described as a non-starter.

The Death penalty and imposing a ban on abortions are also non-starters.

Examining the formula for transfer payments is definitely something worth dealing with and should be. As disgusting as it is, political patronage will always be with us. The Reform & Alliance folks just never got the chance to show us their style. Live with it.

Health Care is under provincial jurisdiction and it would appear that none of the main principals (ie the PM and the Premiers) seem to have a magic solution other than tossing a lot more money at it.... money that we dont seem to have.

As far a the federal deficit goes, well thats a horse of another colour. That could be discussed forever and I dont have the energy. Ironicaly, it was the Liberals that managed to turn the deficit into a surplus and we all managed to survive it.

You made it quite clear to me earlier that you were talking party principles and acused me of being dishonest. Your post is discussing the Reform party platform. Could you now perhaps elaborate on what principles the current Conservative party have declared vs. and what ones the old Reform party abandoned.

Maybe if we are lucky, the Conservative party will dump Harper sooner than later.

Thats it just completely dismiss a very great number of Canadians because you think that you know better. More liberal/leftist arrogance. Why is it that you people can't even listen?

[Smallc]

Why is it that you people can't even listen?

The same can be said of the right....or any ideological group for that matter.

[Smallc]

The key thing to remember is that listening and agreeing are not the same thing. I can listen to your political views all day long....but I'll probably never agree with them.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Smallc

[Alta4ever]

The same can be said of the right....or any ideological group for that matter.

We have listed to liberals, and centeral canada, we have tried it your way for a very long time, and it doesn't seem to be working. We have listened to your types, now it might be time for liberals and centeral Canada to take heed and listen to us.

[Vancouver King]

We have listed to liberals, and centeral canada, we have tried it your way for a very long time, and it doesn't seem to be working. We have listened to your types, now it might be time for liberals and centeral Canada to take heed and listen to us.

It was with Liberals from Central Canada largely in charge over generations that lead us as a country to an envy-of-the-world status relative to world nations. Look at the quallity of living around you.

What hasn't worked? Perhaps it's that a province with barely 10% of the nation's population is unable to impose it's made in Republican Washington agenda on a far too enlightened citizenry.

We've had our 3 year respite of Alberta wannabes, it's time to get back on track.

[KingIggy]

The CONS will only attain majority by adopting a semi-socialist stance. That breaks their cult-word to the right-wing maniacs (the war, persecution and greed crowd).

If the CONS attain majority and start ruling from their more natural ultra-right wing stance of destructive insanity (kinda like Bush-Brains), then Canadians will rebel and boot them out promptly.

Either way, the far right movement in Canada is essentially obliterated.

Only the Liberal center remains.

[Born Free]

I'm willing to bet you haven't the first idea what official bilingualism involves, or its cost. You're talking out of pure ignorance.

Calling me ignorant gets you no brownie points. It would appear that you arent aware what would be involved in getting it removed from the Constitution or the ramifications of such a move. Nor do you seem to have any sense of history in this country.

What exactly does "non starter" mean?

It means exactly what it says. Those two items were put to bed years ago. Think of it like the ice age. Harper also knows it too. I dont like him but I also know he isnt stupid either. As for same sex rights, you homophobic reformer types just dont get it...you live in the past.

It seems to me that once the left gets a policy in place it likes it starts they throw up a wall of insults and moral accusations against anyone who even wants to talk about it. And Harper has bowed to that and thrown away his principals.

Your the one with all the moral indignation here and I think you should stop it.

....A true national leader would move to fix the problems, even if that meant taking control from the provinces.

The last leader that did something like that was Pierre Trudeau with perhaps a little "roll the dice" Mulroney tossed in for some flavour. Oh yes...that remind me...wasnt it interesting to watch Mulroney try to explain that $300K in cash that he got from Schrieber?

The best I can say about them is they're not as corrupt as the Chretien/Martin Libeals were, and are a bit more competent in general, as well as being a lot less self-righteous and shrill.

If you know anything, you need to know that Martin was NOT corrupt. Cretian was your man. Thats likely why Martin was stabbed in the back by his own party. His track record in Finance was outstanding....no deficit spending, was paying down the debt, etc....

[Born Free]

Thats it just completely dismiss a very great number of Canadians because you think that you know better. More liberal/leftist arrogance. Why is it that you people can't even listen?

First, I'm not a Liberal. I vote Conservative while holding my nose these days.

Second, it is you who seems to be dismissing a great number of Canadians by clinging to some old Reform Party platform items that are simply non starters. If the concept of an elected Senate was a good idea (which its not) it would be on the current party's agenda. Its not there because it isnt a priority in this country and not worth getting into a discussion about it.

[Born Free]

We have listed to liberals, and centeral canada, we have tried it your way for a very long time, and it doesn't seem to be working. We have listened to your types, now it might be time for liberals and centeral Canada to take heed and listen to us.

....now we see the real Reform Party agenda/principles. You make the same kind sounds as the Bloc. We do listen and we disagree with what Reform was trying to do.

[Born Free]

Either way, the far right movement in Canada is essentially obliterated.

If true, thank God for that.

[jbg]

If the CONS attain majority and start ruling from their more natural ultra-right wing stance of destructive insanity (kinda like Bush-Brains), then Canadians will rebel and boot them out promptly. Either way, the far right movement in Canada is essentially obliterated.

Only the Liberal center remains.

What you call "far right" is to the left of center in the U.S.