Coalition is Kaput!

[wulf42]

Like it ever really had a chance!

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9010523.html

[ToadBrother]

Like it ever really had a chance!

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/9010523.html

It was dead the moment the Liberals fasttracked Ignatieff to the top of the party, and I suspect that there were more than a few Liberals who supported his coronation precisely because of his coolness on the whole idea.

[madmax]

It was dead the moment the Liberals fasttracked Ignatieff to the top of the party, and I suspect that there were more than a few Liberals who supported his coronation precisely because of his coolness on the whole idea.

The coalition was dead the moment the LPC backed Dion to lead it. Had the LPC chosen anyone but Dion, the coalition might not only be alive and well, Iggy might well have used it as his opportunity for LPC government. But with the coalition tainted by Dions incompetence, there was little for Iggy to do except, politely step aside and keep it in his back pocket for leverage.

Now, if the coalition is "done", and the NDP distance themselves from the LPC, and choose not to backup Iggy, then Iggy is back where he started and with a very poor Conservative Budget to share.

Having met Iggy once, it was all it took to discover he was just another disconnected Egghead. He made some naive comments and then disappeared. The LPC are doing a decent job of creating a leader image before the CPC create one for them.

But he isn't alot better then Harper. But that may be all it takes.

[Molly]

>cynic<

A fence post is better than Harper because a) you darned well know where it stands, and it's not going to kneecap you if you don't watch it every second.

>end of cynic<

[Mr.Canada]

Harper is quite a genius if you ask me. He knew that if he made a budget that would make Grit supporters happy Ignatieff would have to vote for it or face the wrath of the public. In doing so PM Harper killed the coalition as now Layton and Gilles have turned on Ignatieff and are attacking him leaving PM Harper to sit back and watch the show, BRILLIANT.

[ToadBrother]

Harper is quite a genius if you ask me. He knew that if he made a budget that would make Grit supporters happy Ignatieff would have to vote for it or face the wrath of the public. In doing so PM Harper killed the coalition as now Layton and Gilles have turned on Ignatieff and are attacking him leaving PM Harper to sit back and watch the show, BRILLIANT.

A genius? Hardly. He's going to have to swallow the Liberal's "update" amendment and effectively make Ignatieff a partner in government. No matter how you try to look at this, Harper still comes out the loser.

[Moonbox]

The coalition was dead the moment the LPC backed Dion to lead it. Had the LPC chosen anyone but Dion, the coalition might not only be alive and well, Iggy might well have used it as his opportunity for LPC government.

The coalition was an idiotic idea for the Liberals. It was another retarded scheme (like the Green Shift) concocted by Bob Rae and bozo Dion. A lot of the Liberal MP's didn't even want anything to do with it. I'll give my Liberal MP credit for being one of the few who publicly voiced his dislike for to coalition.

It would have been political suicide for the Liberals to share a cabinet with the NDP for the simple reason that the vast majority of Canadians barf at the mention of the NDP's name. It would have completely alienated the moderate right (which is what most Canadians are) and Ignatieff himself wanted nothing to do with it.

Don't act like it was Dion's fault it fell apart. It was a stupid idea altogether.

Having met Iggy once, it was all it took to discover he was just another disconnected Egghead. He made some naive comments and then disappeared. The LPC are doing a decent job of creating a leader image before the CPC create one for them.

By 'meeting him' you mean he shook a few people's hands, said 1 or two things, and then walked away. Once again, your opinion is based on a unshakeable foundation......

In your terms,

[Mr.Canada]

A genius? Hardly. He's going to have to swallow the Liberal's "update" amendment and effectively make Ignatieff a partner in government. No matter how you try to look at this, Harper still comes out the loser.

By then it will be the fall/winter, the recession will be easing and growth stimulated. Layton and the Bloc will have thoroughly thrashed Ignatieff and the Liberals in the press. PM Harper will be seen to be liked and accepted by Pres. Obama with PM Harper and Pres. Obama entering into a new agreement to help both nations that will be widely supported in Canada. Ignatieff will push, trigger an election then lose to Harper who will win a majority.

[ToadBrother]

By then it will be the fall/winter, the recession will be easing and growth stimulated. Layton and the Bloc will have thoroughly thrashed Ignatieff and the Liberals in the press. PM Harper will be seen to be liked and accepted by Pres. Obama with PM Harper and Pres. Obama entering into a new agreement to help both nations that will be widely supported in Canada. Ignatieff will push, trigger an election then lose to Harper who will win a majority.

Only a complete delusional thinks the recession will be easing this year.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

What was with the Liberals 'technical difficulties' that delayed this statement by 25 minutes? Can't they afford to hire a couple of proper AV techs?

Anyway, I found Iggy's statement weak. He rants about the short-comings of the budget for 5 minutes and then says he will pass it, but puts harper on probation???

So what happens if, in March, Iggy isn't happy and slaps Harper on the wrist? If confidence is lost at that time, then the only thing to do will be to call an election - am I wrong? Won't the Liberals be just as broke in March as they are now? Aren't the Cons still polling higher?

I think Iggy will have no choice but to vote with the CPC or abstain from voting until they both have enough public support and enough funding to run a successful campaign against Harper.

[Smallc]

What was with the Liberals 'technical difficulties' that delayed this statement by 25 minutes?

Press Gallery was having audio problems according to CBC.

[ToadBrother]

So what happens if, in March, Iggy isn't happy and slaps Harper on the wrist? If confidence is lost at that time, then the only thing to do will be to call an election - am I wrong? Won't the Liberals be just as broke in March as they are now? Aren't the Cons still polling higher?

I think Iggy will have no choice but to vote with the CPC or abstain from voting until they both have enough public support and enough funding to run a successful campaign against Harper.

In a way, the "updates" are a scam, at least in the short term. The Liberals won't pull the plug on the Tories this year.

In another way, it's a Mexican standoff. Neither side is going to want to pull the trigger on the other, and both are going to be forced to co-operate simply because neither wants to take the chance of going to the polls in this sort of economic climate (well, maybe Harper would, but what he wants to do is rapidly becoming irrelevant).

But in another way, this is Ignatieff's victory. He grabs a bit of power without any of the deadly compromises that would come with the Coalition. Harper needs Ignatieff's support, not so much because of the electorate, but because he cannot afford to go head-to-head against his own party. Ignatieff gains not only time to cement his own position, but can go to his party, and ultimately the voters and say "I put their feet to the fire", while, simultaneously, if the economic situation worsens anyways, claiming "It's their budget, not mine!"

[Mr.Canada]

dbl post plz del.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Mr.Canada]

What was with the Liberals 'technical difficulties' that delayed this statement by 25 minutes? Can't they afford to hire a couple of proper AV techs?

Anyway, I found Iggy's statement weak. He rants about the short-comings of the budget for 5 minutes and then says he will pass it, but puts harper on probation???

So what happens if, in March, Iggy isn't happy and slaps Harper on the wrist? If confidence is lost at that time, then the only thing to do will be to call an election - am I wrong? Won't the Liberals be just as broke in March as they are now? Aren't the Cons still polling higher?

I think Iggy will have no choice but to vote with the CPC or abstain from voting until they both have enough public support and enough funding to run a successful campaign against Harper.

This is more Liberal arrogance from Ignatieff. The Liberals feel only they can govern and try to put the Tories on probation. Utter arrogance.

[Topaz]

Harper is quite a genius if you ask me. He knew that if he made a budget that would make Grit supporters happy Ignatieff would have to vote for it or face the wrath of the public. In doing so PM Harper killed the coalition as now Layton and Gilles have turned on Ignatieff and are attacking him leaving PM Harper to sit back and watch the show, BRILLIANT.

The coalition is only died if the 3 parties want it dead. Iggy is giving the Tories a chance to make amends and if they don't do what is expected by Iggy then Iggy said he will bring the govt down. I don't think Iggy is about to sided with Harper and lose his support from Canadians and Canadians will be watching Iggy closely as close as Iggy said he will be watching the Tories. After listeing to what is happening and forecast for the US, I hope that the Tories and the Libs will plan for the worse and not think we will be out of this in five years and the 80 Bil. pay off, I don't think that will happen.

[Mr.Canada]

The coalition is only died if the 3 parties want it dead. Iggy is giving the Tories a chance to make amends and if they don't do what is expected by Iggy then Iggy said he will bring the govt down. I don't think Iggy is about to sided with Harper and lose his support from Canadians and Canadians will be watching Iggy closely as close as Iggy said he will be watching the Tories. After listeing to what is happening and forecast for the US, I hope that the Tories and the Libs will plan for the worse and not think we will be out of this in five years and the 80 Bil. pay off, I don't think that will happen.

More Liberal arrogance again. "I don't think Iggy is about to sided with Harper and lose his support from Canadians". Who exactly voted for PM Harper? Not Canadians? Then who?

The Liberals are broke, have no policy or plan, they cannot fight an election atm.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[ToadBrother]

This is more Liberal arrogance from Ignatieff. The Liberals feel only they can govern and try to put the Tories on probation. Utter arrogance.

Give me a break. The Opposition has the duty and the right to do that, and this is a minority government. Arrogance was Harper assuming he could do whatever he liked, and the Opposition would just look the other way. Now that he's pretty much castrated himself, his supporters are left making idiotic statements like yours.

[Smallc]

Who exactly voted for PM Harper

A majority of constituents in Calgary - Southwest.

[jdobbin]

So what happens if, in March, Iggy isn't happy and slaps Harper on the wrist? If confidence is lost at that time, then the only thing to do will be to call an election - am I wrong? Won't the Liberals be just as broke in March as they are now? Aren't the Cons still polling higher?

Money seems to be coming in now according to some commentators on Politics Today last week. Guess we won't know until the quarterly statements come out but my guess the major impediment to funds coming in was Dion.

As for the polls, some have Ignatieff running ahead of the Tories. Some of the polls also had the two parties tied. I guess we should not read too much into them but majority territory for Harper has disappeared once Dion left the scene.

If Harper thinks he can win now, he can refuse the amendments. Don't know if that means election. Can he really be sure that the Governor General won't ask Ignatieff to form a government?

I think Iggy will have no choice but to vote with the CPC or abstain from voting until they both have enough public support and enough funding to run a successful campaign against Harper.

I think Harper will have to choice but to accept the Liberal amendments because he is no position to let his government fall and have the Opposition take over. It will be the end of him politically.

[jdobbin]

The Liberals are broke, have no policy or plan, they cannot fight an election atm.

They probably don't need to. If Harper acts like a sociopath, he will reject the amendments and his government will be defeated. The Governor General will decide if an election will happen. Don't know that Harper wants to take that chance.

[Smallc]

They probably don't need to. If Harper acts like a sociopath, he will reject the amendments and his government will be defeated.

According to BNN, his office says that he will accept the amendments.

[madmax]

The coalition was an idiotic idea for the Liberals. It was another retarded scheme (like the Green Shift) concocted by Bob Rae and bozo Dion.

It was also the only mechanism for a demoralized and defeated party to find away to get up off their knees and onto their feet. Without the impetus of the coalition the LPC would still be laying in the fetal position taking kicks from the PM and probably forced into an election they could not have contested but would have no choice to do.

A lot of the Liberal MP's didn't even want anything to do with it. I'll give my Liberal MP credit for being one of the few who publicly voiced his dislike for to coalition.

And spoke openly against when the coalition was going downhill, but shortly before it went over the cliff.

Don't act like it was Dion's fault it fell apart. It was a stupid idea altogether.

Not changing my opinion of Dion now, anymore then when he was first appointed leader of the LPC. The LPC were

naive fools to choose him leader once. The 2nd time, to lead the coalition they should have been ashamed of themselves. Regardless, the coalition was dead the moment Dion took helm and he screwed it up 3 days faster then I predicted.

The fact is the LPC needed the coalition more then any other party. The LPC also needed to drop the coalition more then the NDP once the LPC found its footing.

By 'meeting him' you mean he shook a few people's hands, said 1 or two things, and then walked away. Once again, your opinion is based on a unshakeable foundation......

Well, yeah, he said one or two things... but it took 20 minutes and he..... unfortuneately messed it up royally. However, not to be outdone, Dion came to speak and managed to perform just as poorly, which then firmed up the CPC victory.

Don't let short-term hostility get in the way of your posts.... we are here for a long time.... I await your response in another thread as well, to flesh out your economic perspective.

[Mr.Canada]

They probably don't need to. If Harper acts like a sociopath, he will reject the amendments and his government will be defeated. The Governor General will decide if an election will happen. Don't know that Harper wants to take that chance.

And in your mind you feel the Tories and Grits will swap places in seat count. Keep dreaming. The Maritimes has learned its lesson and will vote with PM Harper next go around.

[Smallc]

Keep dreaming.

I think you should keep dreaming. The Liberals have nowhere to go but up in the next election.

[Mr.Canada]

I think you should keep dreaming. The Liberals have nowhere to go but up in the next election.

Obviously, after the worst election in Liberal history. I don't doubt that they will gain seats most likely at the cost of Layton's NDP but the days of a Red Ontario are over for the time being and Quebec is dead as well for them. It would have been worse but Ignatieff has distanced hiimself from the Coalition well. I'll give him credit for that, he did that well. At the same time many people will be sick of not having their MP in power so many more Liberal seats could go blue.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Mr.Canada