Is it time to de-criminalize Pot posession?

BubberMiley · May 15, 2009

I've been dealing with potheads since junior high school.....disrupting the education (and safety) of others just so they can grow up to be fine non-law abiding Dopers.

So your argument is that weed should remain illegal because you resent the fact that people have used it illegally? Yep, too many bennies, I'm guessing.

While I don't see how the average weed smoker negatively affects society in any way, I can see how those who would criminalize their actions do.

I agree that weed shouldn't be in junior high schools, but creating a black market through criminalization opens the market to kids where it would otherwise be restricted. I never saw anyone buy a mickey of rye in my junior high, but I didn't have to leave the classroom to buy weed. These days, when cigarettes are restricted to adults, I have seen kids "fishing" outside of convenience stores, trying to get adults to buy them smokes. They have no such inconveniences with a black market.

But why did you have to change the topic to PCP use? It's a much, much more dangerous drug than weed (sort of like comparing crystal meth to caffeine). Still, personally, I don't see any problem with grown adults indulging in whatever they feel like so long as they don't go and bother anyone else.

It's what real freedom is.

But I guess that's not something you really believe in.

Edited May 15, 2009 by BubberMiley

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

So your argument is that weed should remain illegal because you resent the fact that people have used it illegally? Yep, too many bennies, I'm guessing.
While I don't see how the average weed smoker negatively affects society in any way, I can see how those who would criminalize their actions do.

Your chicken and egg argument won't work. What other legislation should I ignore because righteous dopers have shown me the way to the Promised Land?

I agree that weed shouldn't be in junior high schools, but creating a black market through criminalization opens the market to kids where it would otherwise be restricted. I never saw anyone buy a mickey of rye in my junior high, but I didn't have to leave the classroom to buy weed.

Oh great...now come the qualifiers.....legal dope except for the kiddies? But that is intrusive legislation that leads to a black market.....that leads to crime...that leads to violence...that leads to.....

These days, when cigarettes are restricted to adults, I have seen kids "fishing" outside of convenience stores, trying to get adults to buy them smokes. They have no such inconveniences with a black market.

Cigarettes are not scheduled contraband. Minors in possession are subject to prosecutions as are adults who sell or traffic to minors.

But why did you have to change the topic to PCP use? It's a much, much more dangerous drug than weed (sort of like comparing crystal meth to caffeine). Still, personally, I don't see any problem with grown adults indulging in whatever they feel like so long as they don't go and bother anyone else.

I know....and that is why your cause is doomed. Hashish.... PCP....Cocaine....Heroin....Methamphetamine.....anything goes in the plaque choked minds of righteous dopers.

It's what real freedom is.
But I guess that's not something you really believe in.

You are also free to get arrested and prosecuted.

Edited May 15, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

BubberMiley · May 15, 2009

Your chicken and egg argument won't work. What other legislation should I ignore because righteous dopers have shown me the way to the Promised Land?

My chicken and egg argument? You're the one saying it should be illegal because it has been illegal. The other legislation you should ignore is anything else that is a victimless crime, because victimless crimes go against the concept of personal freedom. So, I guess, according to your own previous post, the only other legislation is prostitution.

Oh great...now come the qualifiers.....legal dope except for the kiddies?

Yep. Let's see what the negative effects of that would be, and then deal with it as appropriate.

I know....and that is why your cause is doomed.

No it's not. In fact, I am more optimistic now than ever that the war on drugs is over. They said it on my TV only this morning.

You are also free to get arrested and prosecuted.

For now. But not for long. And all your bitching and moaning and whining won't stop it, because your circular logic and chicken-and-egg arguments only make sense to those like yourselves who hate people who are having more fun than they are. :lol:

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

My chicken and egg argument? You're the one saying it should be illegal because it has been illegal. The other legislation you should ignore is anything else that is a victimless crime, because victimless crimes go against the concept of personal freedom. So, I guess, according to your own previous post, the only other legislation is prostitution.

Personal freedoms are infringed on by the state many times when in the interest of public safety. That includes oh so special Dopers.

Yep. Let's see what the negative effects of that would be, and then deal with it as appropriate.

More selfish doperthink.

No it's not. In fact, I am more optimistic now than ever that the war on drugs is over. They said it on my TV only this morning.

They say a lot of things on "TV".

For now. But not for long. And all your bitching and moaning and whining won't stop it, because your circular logic and chicken-and-egg arguments only make sense to those like yourselves who hate people who are having more fun than they are.

Poor Dopers...just can't get a break. Legal dope for everybody!

Sir Bandelot · May 15, 2009

Poor Dopers...just can't get a break. Legal dope for everybody!

Alaska

Arkansas

California

Colorado

Kansas

Illinois

Maine

Massachusetts

Montana

Michigan

Minnesota

Missouri

Mississippi

Nebraska

Nevada

New York

North Carolina

Ohio

Oregon

Washington

Wisconsin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_h...e_United_States

And with the announcement from the new US drug Czar today (nice name btw... czar) the list will probably get longer.

Then Canada will follow the US example, or Canadians will go to the US to find a safe place to smoke

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

....And with the announcement from the new US drug Czar today (nice name btw... czar) the list will probably get longer.
Then Canada will follow the US example, or Canadians will go to the US to find a safe place to smoke

It's safe to smoke now.....but that isn't enough. They want to grow and traffic. Canadians already go to the USA to smoke and traffic.

benny · May 15, 2009

Canadians already go to the USA to smoke and traffic.

Canada is mostly a revolving door in this regard.

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

Canada is mostly a revolving door in this regard.

Correct...don't need no steenkin' Obama drug czar for what is already happening.

Sir Bandelot · May 15, 2009

Correct...don't need no steenkin' Obama drug czar for what is already happening.

Oh I see, so now its all good

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

Oh I see, so now its all good

Yes...it's good to stop pretending that dopers are/were waiting for any change in the laws.

"Mommy, who is buying all the illegal drugs?"

Why...Dopers...of course.

Sir Bandelot · May 15, 2009

"Mommy, why are your drugs ok then?"

Why... because the government says so, of course

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

"Mommy, why are your drugs ok then?"
Why... because the government says so, of course

Of course...lots of gang bangin' for Prozac and Cialis.

Edited May 15, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

Sir Bandelot · May 15, 2009

Of course...lots of gang bangin' for Prozac and Cialis.

Of course, not necessary when Glaxo is your dealer. It's always ok when its the official gang bangers.

I got you figured out- whatever your government tells you is ok with you.

If they say its black today, BC says "black is good, black is good". If they say it's wite, BC says "whites good, whites all good!"

Aint that right, BC

BubberMiley · May 15, 2009

Personal freedoms are infringed on by the state many times when in the interest of public safety. That includes oh so special Dopers.

That's correct, in that the law limits my freedom to throw my fist when it is in the vicinity of another person's face, and so it should. But remember, we're talking about something that is, as you said yourself, a victimless crime. So the existing laws do nothing to protect public safety and only jeopardize it directly or misuse resources that could be used protecting it. That's why the laws are changing.

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

Of course, not necessary when Glaxo is your dealer. It's always ok when its the official gang bangers.

Glaxo is legal like...and actually pays taxes.

I got you figured out- whatever your government tells you is ok with you.
If they say its black today, BC says "black is good, black is good". If they say it's wite, BC says "whites good, whites all good!"

Black is always good.

Aint that right, BC

I don't live in Canada...where cannabis wasn't so good.

benny · May 15, 2009

But remember, we're talking about something that is, as you said yourself, a victimless crime.

Marketing pot is not a victimless crime since some people have a genetic predisposition to become mentally ill after consuming pot.

Edited May 15, 2009 by benny

BubberMiley · May 15, 2009

Glaxo is legal like...and actually pays taxes.

Wow. Nothing gets past you. So if something should be illegal because it has been illegal, naturally things that are legal should remain legal because they have been legal?

And how did I have a chicken-and-egg argument again? :lol:

BubberMiley · May 15, 2009

Marketing pot is not a victimless crime since some people have a genetic predisposition to become mentally ill after consuming pot.

Then don't smoke it. Again, some people have a genetic disposition to die after eating peanuts, but using the criminal justice system to deal with that would be an abuse of its authority.

There's no way to make some guy smoking weed in his garage any of your business. That's why poor BC04 is reduced to sputtering "dopers" over and over. All he can do is resort to name-callng because otherwise he has nothing.

Edited May 15, 2009 by BubberMiley

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

Wow. Nothing gets past you. So if something should be illegal because it has been illegal, naturally things that are legal should remain legal because they have been legal?

Something is illegal because elected officials or their appointed "ministers" made it that way. Must be the dope that clouds this reality.

And how did I have a chicken-and-egg argument again?

You want to legalize all scheduled substances because they are illegal. :lol:

Oleg Bach · May 15, 2009

Self medication of any kind is frowned upon by the medical profession and political leaders - Heaven forbid you become your own doctor and actually sustain yourself anyway you can.. With the medical class - every puff you take is one less pill they sell....YOU know what you need when you are weakening - same as a dog that eats fresh grass in the spring...cheaper than a vet.

Sir Bandelot · May 15, 2009

Something is illegal because elected officials or their appointed "ministers" made it that way.

This is the extent of his argument, as apparent with most things he writes- unequivocal support for anything that the government tells him to believe.

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

This is the extent of his argument, as apparent with most things he writes- unequivocal support for anything that the government tells him to believe.

I write of power, not the inconsequence that you worship.

Oleg Bach · May 15, 2009

I write of power, not the inconsequence that you worship.

Well spoken ...writing of power grants power - the chroinic or ritualistic use of pot - can only be grafted in this manner - DOES POT MAKE YOU WEAK - OR DOES IT MAKE YOU POWERFUL ....? Those that seek to legalize pot - seek to legalize the right to be weak..It's much like the right of the indiviual under liberal law to be mentally ill to wander the streets and die - Or the liberal harm reduction program where you can kill yourself with hard drugs slowly rather than quickly..but still you die.....stupid!

bush_cheney2004 · May 15, 2009

....DOES POT MAKE YOU WEAK - OR DOES IT MAKE YOU POWERFUL ....? Those that seek to legalize pot - seek to legalize the right to be weak..It's much like the right of the indiviual under liberal law to be mentally ill to wander the streets and die - Or the liberal harm reduction program where you can kill yourself with hard drugs slowly rather than quickly..but still you die.....stupid!

Good insight....I never really thought of it that way, but you are right. The root of my disdain for such dopers (of any kind) is the choice to not only be weak, but to drag others down with them. On a more practical level, while operating nuclear power plants and weapons systems at sea there is zero tolerance for such thinking and behavior.

My brother-in-law is a geef goof....his family pays a terrible price for his "freedom" to do whatever he wants with dope.

Oleg Bach · May 15, 2009

Good insight....I never really thought of it that way, but you are right. The root of my disdain for such dopers (of any kind) is the choice to not only be weak, but to drag others down with them. On a more practical level, while operating nuclear power plants and weapons systems at sea there is zero tolerance for such thinking and behavior.
My brother-in-law is a geef goof....his family pays a terrible price for his "freedom" to do whatever he wants with dope.

I speak from experience- have drank bath tubs full of gin - tested pharma product - smoked pot for decades - and what I know in order to survive is that you must be strong and clear of mind..thank God I had enough intelligence to use the stuff in an adventurous fashion - If it began to harm or weaken me I put it down - some are not smart enough to put down the drink - or lay down the joint..they are like dogs that return to their own vomit - If you are stoned or drunk for long perionds - there are no ups and downs (no dynamics) so you will see drunks who are sixty - who have been drunk since they were 20 - who have the maturity and developmental mind of a 20 year old .\

My youngest brother who has not touched a drink in 20 years is a chronic smoker...we have no relationship - he is stll pissed off at what he thinks happend 25 years ago - I know for a fact if he had lucid ans straight days we would have resolved our porblems and my brother and I would be close as should be - I lost him to dope - I swear by that - even if it is "just" pot...he's gone - and I miss him.