The Conservatives have nothing to hide

[Barts]

Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party really are a band of crooks. They know they broke the election laws and are now trying to keep Elections Canada from investigating them. See Judge asked to unseal millions of Tory documents on '06 election.

To all the Harpercrats and Conservative Partiers on Mapleleafweb, any argument you had that just possibly Harper and the Conservatives are not as "corrupt" as they say the Liberals are or were is now moot. Harper and the Conservatives are just as bad as the Sponsorship Scandal era Liberals.

Harper or someone in the Conservative Party needs to serve some time for this.

[Mr.Canada]

To compare the Tories to Liberals is overkill. $1 Billion ADSCAM, $2 Billion Gun registry boondoggle, $500 million to nix helicopter deal, the list goes on and on...

To be honest, the Tories right now are acting like Liberals with their policy not like Tories at all. It's pissing me off tbh.

[Progressive Tory]

Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party really are a band of crooks. They know they broke the election laws and are now trying to keep Elections Canada from investigating them. See Judge asked to unseal millions of Tory documents on '06 election.

To all the Harpercrats and Conservative Partiers on Mapleleafweb, any argument you had that just possibly Harper and the Conservatives are not as "corrupt" as they say the Liberals are or were is now moot. Harper and the Conservatives are just as bad as the Sponsorship Scandal era Liberals.

Harper or someone in the Conservative Party needs to serve some time for this.

And let's not forget Harper Invokes "Executive Privilege" in Elections Scam

CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATES OR OFFICIAL AGENTS IGNORE SUBPOENA - On August 13, Paul Szabo, the chair of the Parliamentary Ethics Committee reported on the fact that several Conservative Candidates and their agents indicated that they would not appear, and as a result the Chair issued subpoenas on August 1st and the subpoenas were served on August 6. In several cases the subpoenas were ignored. The financial agent of the HON Josee Verner indicated that he had been told by the Conservative party not to appear. He was subsequently served with a Subpoena on August 6, and then indicated that he would not be able to appear during the week of August 10. Pat Martin, from the NDP, indicated that there had to be consequences the failure to appear after being subpoenaed. He stated that it is an important issue to be discussed at the next session. He pointed out that only 3 of the 26 members who were subpoenaed had actually appeared.

CONSERVATIVE USED FUTURE POTENTIAL REBATE AS COLLATERAL FOR PRIVATE LOAN - At the August 13 session, Steve Halicki referred to the scheme as being a creative way of funding. About $50,000 had been transferred into his riding account and then returned. His creative funding resulted in his using the potential $30,000 rebate from Elections Canada to secure a private loan. This rebate of 60% of his electoral expenses was conditional, of course, on his receiving 10% of the vote. Thus with this "creative way of funding" resulting in plumped- up election expenses he was able to borrow money from a private lender.

WITNESS. Mark Mayrand, Chief Electoral Officer - In response to questions asked by various opposition members, Mark Mayrand confirmed that the transfer of funds from the Central Campaign to the Riding Associations, is permitted. What is not permitted is the transfer of expenses of the local candidates campaign. When asked if he had determined if this practice had occurred with other parties during the 2006 election, Marc Mayrand responded: No.

CONSERVATIVE CANDIDATES AND OFFICIAL AGENTS WERE WILLING TO SIGN A FALSE EXPENSE FORM - Official agent and candidate both sign off and attest that the expenses occurred in the local campaign and at fair market value. Both the Conservative candidates and their agents who are under investigation apparently signed the required documents even though they knew that the expenses were not incurred locally by their campaigns.CONSERVATIVE PARTY DID NOT COMPLY WITH THE ADVERTISING REQUIREMENTS OF FAIR MARKET VALUE - It was pointed out that in three adjacent ridings in Toronto, the same ads were recorded, by the Conservative candidates, as costing a different amount. The implications of this is that the expenses were accounted for in relation to the range of spending limits for the candidates.

CONSERVATIVES MIGHT BE EMBROILED IN ALL LEVELS OF TAX EVASION BECAUSE OF THE SCHEME - Marcel Proulx raised the issue of discrepancy in provincial taxes and that the taxes were not applied before the assessment of GST. This might indicate a problem with the invoices submitted by Retail Media, the agent acting for the National Conservative Ad Campaign. CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE CONTINUALLY RAISE ISSUES RELATED TO PROCESS, RATHER THAN RECOGNIZING THAT IT IS CLEAR THAT THE CONSERVATIVES DID ENGAGE IN A WIDESPREAD WAY IN AT LEAST 67 RIDINGS, THAT THIS PRACTICE WAS AGAINST THE ELECTIONS ACT. AND THAT THE CONSERVATIVES BENEFITED UNFAIRLY IN THE 2006 ELECTION FROM THIS PRACTICE

[Barts]

To compare the Tories to Liberals is overkill.

The Conservatives have lost the moral claim (which was always dubious) that they're "not like Liberals". They cannot say or imply anymore that they are a party of integrity. They're crooks. They broke the law to try to win an election. They broke laws that were put in place, in part by the Conservatives, to make elections open, fair and honest.

Now they're involved in a cover up.

When Conservatives point the finger, it points back at them.

[Progressive Tory]

To compare the Tories to Liberals is overkill. $1 Billion ADSCAM, $2 Billion Gun registry boondoggle, $500 million to nix helicopter deal, the list goes on and on...

To be honest, the Tories right now are acting like Liberals with their policy not like Tories at all. It's pissing me off tbh.

Why is it the 'Righties' always fall back on Adscam to justify Tory crimes? Adscam involved bureacrats and no elected mps. The investigation into it was launched by the Liberals themselves and they repaid any monies that may have benefited their Party.

INSTEAD, HARPER IS USING HIS POWER TO ENCOURAGE THOSE INVOLVED TO IGNORE SUBPOENAS AND IS INSTEAD SUING ELECTIONS CANADA AND YOU ARE ALREADY OUT OF POCKET FOR THIS BOGUS LAWSUIT. 67 ELECTED CONSERVATIVE MPS COULD FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES.

[Progressive Tory]

The Conservatives have lost the moral claim (which was always dubious) that they're "not like Liberals". They cannot say or imply anymore that they are a party of integrity. They're crooks. They broke the law to try to win an election. They broke laws that were put in place, in part by the Conservatives, to make elections open, fair and honest.

Now they're involved in a cover up.

When Conservatives point the finger, it points back at them.

Exactly. Crooks, crooks, crooks. It's a shame because there is a large group of them who are not, but they're all being painted with the same brush.

Harper’s onetime lawyer faces hearing - His legal work for Harper while acting as a lobbyist drew attention to high-profile cases of prominent Conservatives who became lobbyists after the election of the Harper government. They include former MP John Reynolds from B.C., at Lang Michener in Vancouver, and Ken Boessenkool, one of Harper’s closest former confidantes.

[Mr.Canada]

You're dreaming, that'll never happen. This is just more fear mongering by the secular socialist community including the socialist hard left Liberal and NDP parties along with the hard left MSM.

We Conservatives must suffer as Christ himself has suffered for us on the Cross. Don't lose hope, if we stick together and defiant against our would be oppressors who wish nothing more than to bludgeon our free thoughts and actions out of existence. To instead replace them with the mindless zombie thought of political correctness, central government control and Atheism. The beginnings of a secular communist dictatorship just like the USSR, here is Canada. No Bolshevic Revolution this time though, no, no. They've smartened up, a bloodless coup using white liberal guilt instead to control us with. In some instances it's more effective than the gun. Be mindful of our foes, they are cunning as they are soulless.

[85RZ500]

PT, why all the yelling?

And to say that the MP's ,especially those so deep in PQ society were't aware of the Adscam fiasco is naive at best.

Edited January 23, 2009 by 85RZ500

[Argus]

Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party really are a band of crooks. They know they broke the election laws and are now trying to keep Elections Canada from investigating them. See Judge asked to unseal millions of Tory documents on '06 election.

To all the Harpercrats and Conservative Partiers on Mapleleafweb, any argument you had that just possibly Harper and the Conservatives are not as "corrupt" as they say the Liberals are or were is now moot. Harper and the Conservatives are just as bad as the Sponsorship Scandal era Liberals.

Harper or someone in the Conservative Party needs to serve some time for this.

My God. The level of political debate on this board continues to plunge to new and ever more inane levels.

First of all, you clearly don't understand what a law is. You don't appear to understand the difference between an Elections Canada regulation - that is, something which, if violated, can result in forfeiture of part of election finance returns - and a criminal code violation which lands you in jail. What we have here is a disagreement between the Tories and Elections Canada on the interpretation EC has placed upon those regulations. It is a civil dispute which will be solved, one way or the other, after they've run it entirely through the court system. To suggest that people should go to jail for this is taking your vindictive political hatreds to new heights - or lows.

It's especially inane when comparing it to the deliberate fraud wherin Liberal party officials met in dark Italian restaurants - turning the heat up high so that their partners would have to remove their coats and hopefully reveal any "wires" they might be wearing - so they could pass envelopes of cash to each other. The cash being kickbacks from fraudulent government contracts.

And it shows against the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy of the Left. The Liberals could steal billions and none of you would blink or care. But let a Conservative violate a regulation and it's PRISON TIME FOR THEM!!

[Argus]

And let's not forget Harper Invokes "Executive Privilege" in Elections Scam

Yes, we're all aware that Liberal misuse and abuse of the commitee system, basically turning every commitee into nothing more than a propaganda organ to try and heap abuse on the government helped lead to the last election. There's no need to remind us.

[Argus]

The Conservatives have lost the moral claim (which was always dubious) that they're "not like Liberals".

Since you clearly don't have much of a sense of morality your complaint seems rather silly.

[Progressive Tory]

You're dreaming, that'll never happen. This is just more fear mongering by the secular socialist community including the socialist hard left Liberal and NDP parties along with the hard left MSM.

We Conservatives must suffer as Christ himself has suffered for us on the Cross. Don't lose hope, if we stick together and defiant against our would be oppressors who wish nothing more than to bludgeon our free thoughts and actions out of existence. To instead replace them with the mindless zombie thought of political correctness, central government control and Atheism. The beginnings of a secular communist dictatorship just like the USSR, here is Canada. No Bolshevic Revolution this time though, no, no. They've smartened up, a bloodless coup using white liberal guilt instead to control us with. In some instances it's more effective than the gun. Be mindful of our foes, they are cunning as they are soulless.

But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off. Psalm 37:38

Do you have a Parish priest? You might want to talk with him. He could recommend a good exorcist. The devil has your soul boy.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Progressive Tory

[Argus]

Why is it the 'Righties' always fall back on Adscam to justify Tory crimes?

Why is it Lefties don't seem to care when your leaders commit mass murder, but jump up and down screaming and pointing and pulling at their hair when they see someone else jaywalking?

Adscam involved bureacrats and no elected mps.

You're either a liar or a fool.

The investigation into it was launched by the Liberals themselves

The parliamentary investigation was stonewalled and then hurriedlyl cut short by the Liberals, and the actual judicial investigation was set with very narrow terms of reference.

There was no doubt, however, to anyone who followed either, that the adscam affair ran up to the PMO itself, and involved the prime minister, his chief aids, and almost certainly other senior members of the Quebec wing, including Stephan Dion.

and they repaid any monies that may have benefited their Party.

Not hardly.

INSTEAD, HARPER IS USING HIS POWER TO ENCOURAGE THOSE INVOLVED TO IGNORE SUBPOENAS

Issued by Liberal partisans on committees. So what?

[AND IS INSTEAD SUING ELECTIONS CANADA AND YOU ARE ALREADY OUT OF POCKET FOR THIS BOGUS LAWSUIT. 67 ELECTED CONSERVATIVE MPS COULD FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES.

It's their right to sue EC if they feel the law is on their side. You have some objection to that? Are you aware the Liberals have sued other agencies of government in the recent past?

[Mr.Canada]

But all sinners will be destroyed; the future of the wicked will be cut off. Psalm 37:38

Do you have a Parish priest? You might want to talk with him. He could recommend a good exorcist. The devil has your soul boy.

Right, which is the secular socialist who wishes to banish Jesus Christ into extinction. The war against Jesus has been raging for some time now friends but we mustn't give up our faith to their Godlessness and the white liberal guilt stick constantly shaken at all citizens.

[Barts]

My God. The level of political debate on this board continues to plunge to new and ever more inane levels.

First of all, you clearly don't understand what a law is. You don't appear to understand the difference between an Elections Canada regulation - that is, something which, if violated, can result in forfeiture of part of election finance returns - and a criminal code violation which lands you in jail. What we have here is a disagreement between the Tories and Elections Canada on the interpretation EC has placed upon those regulations. It is a civil dispute which will be solved, one way or the other, after they've run it entirely through the court system. To suggest that people should go to jail for this is taking your vindictive political hatreds to new heights - or lows.

It's especially inane when comparing it to the deliberate fraud wherin Liberal party officials met in dark Italian restaurants - turning the heat up high so that their partners would have to remove their coats and hopefully reveal any "wires" they might be wearing - so they could pass envelopes of cash to each other. The cash being kickbacks from fraudulent government contracts.

And it shows against the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy of the Left. The Liberals could steal billions and none of you would blink or care. But let a Conservative violate a regulation and it's PRISON TIME FOR THEM!!

Bunkum! Who set up the Gomery Inquiry into AdScam? The Liberals. When the Conservatives break the law, they cover up. AdScam involved no elected officials. The Conservatives "Electiongate" is filthy with their MPs.

It's the "Right" who wears the "the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy". The Conservatives conspired to break the law of land. That's not a civil matter.

If Harper and his Conservative MPs are not morally bankrupt and guilty, why not release the documents if they've nothing to hide?

[Mr.Canada]

Bunkum! Who set up the Gomery Inquiry into AdScam? The Liberals. When the Conservatives break the law, they cover up. AdScam involved no elected officials. The Conservatives "Electiongate" is filthy with their MPs.

It's the "Right" who wears the "the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy". The Conservatives conspired to break the law of land. That's not a civil matter.

If Harper and his Conservative MPs are not morally bankrupt and guilty, why not release the documents if they've nothing to hide?

How did the millions flow out of the PMO without any MP knowing about it? Either they knew about ADSCAM or they were completely incompetent.

[jdobbin]

We Conservatives must suffer as Christ himself has suffered for us on the Cross.

You must be a blast at parties with when you compare yourself to Christ.

[Progressive Tory]

My God. The level of political debate on this board continues to plunge to new and ever more inane levels.

First of all, you clearly don't understand what a law is. You don't appear to understand the difference between an Elections Canada regulation - that is, something which, if violated, can result in forfeiture of part of election finance returns - and a criminal code violation which lands you in jail. What we have here is a disagreement between the Tories and Elections Canada on the interpretation EC has placed upon those regulations. It is a civil dispute which will be solved, one way or the other, after they've run it entirely through the court system. To suggest that people should go to jail for this is taking your vindictive political hatreds to new heights - or lows.

It's especially inane when comparing it to the deliberate fraud wherin Liberal party officials met in dark Italian restaurants - turning the heat up high so that their partners would have to remove their coats and hopefully reveal any "wires" they might be wearing - so they could pass envelopes of cash to each other. The cash being kickbacks from fraudulent government contracts.

And it shows against the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy of the Left. The Liberals could steal billions and none of you would blink or care. But let a Conservative violate a regulation and it's PRISON TIME FOR THEM!!

Sorry, but FORGED receipts in an attempt to DEFRAUD TAXPAYERS is a criminal offence. Only going over spending limits is an oopsy. Forgery and Fraud. Quite Impressive.

Durham taxpayers got hosed on Jim Flaherty's watch, but not his friends

[Progressive Tory]

Bunkum! Who set up the Gomery Inquiry into AdScam? The Liberals. When the Conservatives break the law, they cover up. AdScam involved no elected officials. The Conservatives "Electiongate" is filthy with their MPs.

It's the "Right" who wears the "the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy". The Conservatives conspired to break the law of land. That's not a civil matter.

If Harper and his Conservative MPs are not morally bankrupt and guilty, why not release the documents if they've nothing to hide?

Exactly. Crooks, crooks and more crooks. The numbers are piling up.

Conservative MPs Took Bribes From Firm in RCMP Deal - Senior Conservatives have taken almost $8,000 in political bribes from two firms set to reap a windfall from the relocation of the RCMP headquarters. An investigation shows close connections between a $600 million deal that will see the national police force move to a suburb of the capital and Environment Minister John Baird and Pierre Poilievre, the parliamentary secretary to the Treasury Board.

Along with National Revenue Minister Gordon O'Connor and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, Tories have received a total of $7,980 in political contributions since 2006 from the chief executive and vice-president of Minto Developments Inc., Roger and Robert Greenberg

[Moonbox]

Bunkum! Who set up the Gomery Inquiry into AdScam? The Liberals. When the Conservatives break the law, they cover up. AdScam involved no elected officials. The Conservatives "Electiongate" is filthy with their MPs.

The Gomery Inquiry was set up by Liberals to investigate Liberals. It was a joke. The courts concluded that Gomery's findings indicated extreme biases in favor of Paul Martin and NOTHING was really concluded. The Gomery inquiry was little more than a squabble between Paul Martin and Chretien. Again...we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars that dissapeared and Liberal supporters kind of say, "Well so what?"

Do you know what that money could have been used for? BILLIONS are not something we just forget after 2 years...

It's the "Right" who wears the "the utter hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy". The Conservatives conspired to break the law of land. That's not a civil matter.

I don't think you understand what you're even talking about. Elections Canada regulations are not 'laws'. They're regulations...it's completely different.

If Harper and his Conservative MPs are not morally bankrupt and guilty, why not release the documents if they've nothing to hide?

Maybe because the don't feel like cooperating with an opposition that's purely out to get them? Why WOULD they release the documents? There's no real upside to it. Why not waste the resources of a hurting opposition on what could be a pointless effort?

Edited January 23, 2009 by Moonbox

[jdobbin]

I don't think you understand what you're even talking about. Elections Canada regulations are not 'laws'. They're regulations...it's completely different.

So the Elections Canada Act is just regulations, not a law?

[Barts]

Maybe because the don't feel like cooperating with an opposition that's purely out to get them? Why WOULD they release the documents? There's no real upside to it. Why not waste the resources of a hurting opposition on what could be a pointless effort?

First, Elections Canada, the independent agency charged with the administrating the Elections Act, is not the Opposition. Second, the Conservatives would release the documents to demonstrate their innocence, which is what they claim they are.

And lastly it's the Conservatives that are out to get the Opposition or didn't you take notice of the 27 November fiscal update and the election called contrary to the Conservatives fixed election date law?

[Moonbox]

No, but it's something myself, nor you nor "Progressive Tory" (I still don't understand why he called himself that) likely understand it all that well.

We don't know exactly what was done, or what exactly the 'laws' are, and to firmly decide that something criminal has happened is just stupid. It's just like the Cadman affair. The Liberals are so eager to fling mud that they'll accuse Harper of bribing the man even though he publicy asserted this did not happen and then his wife ran as a CPC MP afterwards. Seriously?

I'll allow there is a POSSIBILITY that something criminal or fishy happened, but I'm not going to firmly claim it as fact until it's been proven.

A lot of the people crying foul here are posting less on fact and more on wishful thinking.

[normanchateau]

Right, which is the secular socialist who wishes to banish Jesus Christ into extinction. The war against Jesus has been raging for some time now friends but we mustn't give up our faith to their Godlessness and the white liberal guilt stick constantly shaken at all citizens.

Could it be that the "secular socialist" is actually Satan?

[waldo]

Yes, we're all aware that Liberal misuse and abuse of the committee system, basically turning every committee into nothing more than a propaganda organ to try and heap abuse on the government helped lead to the last election. There's no need to remind us.

huh! say what?

yes, there certainly were committee level influences at play. Interesting how some quickly (conveniently) forget their own monkey wrench gangs committee 'obstruction handbook' Harper's Committee Obstruction Handbook

oh yes - there certainly was dysfunctional Parliament Steve!