President of Canada?

bush_cheney2004 · January 17, 2009

That's not what I see him as. I see him as an important historical figure. Whether or not he as an individual will be worthy of his historical importance is yet to be seen.

OK...let's explore that more balanced perspective. I am of the opinion that such a sentiment appeals to some Canadian opinions about America and so called "race relations", as if Obama's election represents a giant leap forward for the Neanderthal Neighbours to the south, whether it be true or not. This reinforces a superiority always assumed (yet false).

bush_cheney2004 · January 17, 2009

What happens in Mexico, like in Canada, has much less effect on the collective world (and Canada) that what happens in the US.

Yet Obama cannot change this underlying truth, so we are left with what he may or may not do on the surface of this reality. George Bush enjoyed this sentiment early in his presidency.

Smallc · January 17, 2009

I am of the opinion that such a sentiment appeals to some Canadian opinions about America and so called "race relations", as if Obama's election represents a giant leap forward for the Neanderthal Neighbours to the south, whether it be true or not.

You may be of that opinion, and it may be true in some cases, but certainly it isn't the view of all.

bush_cheney2004 · January 17, 2009

You may be of that opinion, and it may be true in some cases, but certainly it isn't the view of all.

Correct...as I stated.."some". It is true for "some" Americans as well. But even if such an idea had merit, it is diluted by practical realities and the defeat of other constituencies.

kimmy · January 17, 2009

OK...let's explore that more balanced perspective. I am of the opinion that such a sentiment appeals to some Canadian opinions about America and so called "race relations", as if Obama's election represents a giant leap forward for the Neanderthal Neighbours to the south, whether it be true or not. This reinforces a superiority always assumed (yet false).

I think the presumed superiority many Canadians seem to feel towards Americans in regard to racial issues is simply a product of never having had to deal with the issue to nearly the extent.

I think it must be pointed out that "racial issues" and "race relations" tends to be code for "angry black people" in this sort of discussion. Canada has had and continues to have plenty of racial issues of its own, vis-a-vis aboriginals throughout our history, as well as historically the Chinese head tax and Japanese internment, and increasingly at present day with South Asians. The presumption of superiority seems to rest on the US experience with slavery and segregation in the southern states, as well as the fact that black people make up a considerably smaller portion of Canada's populace.

Perhaps the history and the larger black population give the black civil rights movement in the United States a level of immediacy that has never been present in Canada. Perhaps the charged and divisive atmosphere that created riots and political movements 40-50 years ago made addressing racial issues a priority in a way it has never been in Canada. Whatever the reason, the battle has been fought in the US, not in Canada.

The results of America's struggle with this issue have filtered across the border. American black people sought to be portrayed in a more positive manner in the media, and the results are present on Canadian televisions. Black people in the United States have won higher profile for their artists and music and culture, and the results are available in Canadian record stores and book stores and so on. And now a brown-skinned man has won the top job in the United States, and brown-skinned people in Canada find inspiration. As usual, we're tagging along behind.

-k

bush_cheney2004 · January 17, 2009

I think the presumed superiority many Canadians seem to feel towards Americans in regard to racial issues is simply a product of never having had to deal with the issue to nearly the extent.

Ok...or refusing to do so. Indeed, one of the manifestations of "multiculturalism" is ironically that.

....The presumption of superiority seems to rest on the US experience with slavery and segregation in the southern states, as well as the fact that black people make up a considerably smaller portion of Canada's populace.

No doubt.....Canada is a great place for Africans, not "Blacks". As you have pointed out, Canada has a long history with bigotry, with the added knife twist of language rights.

Perhaps the history and the larger black population give the black civil rights movement in the United States a level of immediacy that has never been present in Canada. Perhaps the charged and divisive atmosphere that created riots and political movements 40-50 years ago made addressing racial issues a priority in a way it has never been in Canada. Whatever the reason, the battle has been fought in the US, not in Canada.

Canada could never have a MLK....and it shall have no Obama either. Canada's slaves are long forgotten as a "British" problem.

The results of America's struggle with this issue have filtered across the border. American black people sought to be portrayed in a more positive manner in the media, and the results are present on Canadian televisions. Black people in the United States have won higher profile for their artists and music and culture, and the results are available in Canadian record stores and book stores and so on. And now a brown-skinned man has won the top job in the United States, and brown-skinned people in Canada find inspiration. As usual, we're tagging along behind.

Top job? Perhaps, but as you've noted, Obama is not so "black" after all.

kimmy · January 17, 2009

Canada could never have a MLK....and it shall have no Obama either.

You've said this a few times... is your view that Canada's tiptoeing around race would have robbed these figures of the urgency of their message?

Top job? Perhaps, but as you've noted, Obama is not so "black" after all.

Well, Obama's background has something to appeal to lots of different people.

We discussed Tiger Woods a while back... with Tiger pointing out his multi-racial background and saying he doesn't identify himself as a black person at all.

Then there was the Colin Powell take on things, which was basically "in this country, if you look like I do, then you're black. That choice is made for you."

There might be some validity to both points of view, but certainly the Colin Powell version seems to be the one that defines how Obama is perceived. Obama may mention his white family when it is convenient for him to do so, but he seems content to be defined as a black person in the way Powell explains it.

-k

Edited January 17, 2009 by kimmy

bush_cheney2004 · January 17, 2009

You've said this a few times... is your view that Canada's tiptoeing around race would have robbed these figures of the urgency of their message?

Yes, not only would it be less compelling, but it would have to compete with a far more entrenched domestic battle.

There might be some validity to both points of view, but certainly the Colin Powell version seems to be the one that defines how Obama is perceived. Obama may mention his white family when it is convenient for him to do so, but he seems content to be defined as a black person in the way Powell explains it.

Not entirely, as Obama bristles at any slight to his now deceased mother's heritage. Sure, he will take full political advantage of circumstances even as he is criticized as not being "black enough". The current battle in America is to leave behind the racist polarization of the battles past in recognition of a full spectrum of possibilities. General Powell is trapped by his own limits, not so Tiger Woods.

In the US, "white women" and women in general have been fighting the cause far longer. That's why some Hillary Clinton supporters are still bitter. Race trumps gender... it would seem.

bush_cheney2004 · January 17, 2009

Looks like Canadian Obama gushing is rising to a peak at his inauguration train ride to "ape" Abe Lincoln (yes, I said "ape")....even as it exposes unhealed wounds going back to PM Trudeau's lukewarm support in the "West".

So it could go like this....a la Lloyd Bentsen style:

We know Abraham Lincoln, and you Senator Obama, are no Abraham Lincoln.

CBC version:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/01/17/o...#socialcomments

CTV version:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...#commentSection

Edited January 18, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

Topaz · January 18, 2009

I was surprised when one the US news channel said Obama and Bush are related?

bush_cheney2004 · January 18, 2009

I was surprised when one the US news channel said Obama and Bush are related?

Yes....they are both American males with "white" mothers.

Barley · January 18, 2009

Getting back to the subject of what Obama will mean for Canada...

He has already stated he will put in place a ten year plan to reduce US dependence on foreign oil, and he has an Energy secretary who has a distaste for dirty oil. Guess what the tar sands are considered to be. Clinton, during her "annointing" by Congress was making some pretty ugly noises about the Arctic.

Aside from all the Disneyland stargazing, we will have to see...

Edited January 18, 2009 by Barley

trooper · January 19, 2009

Bush_Cheney is absolutely right. We Canadians will never give a chance to Obama due to our political system. There will be more Trudeau's and Harper's but will never be a Black Canadian, Native Canadian or Indo-Canadian period.

In fact, I strongly believe that even if we had a system similar to the American system, we would still not get a Black PM due to the insignificant black population. Now, don't bring Michelle Jean as she's not really 'elected' by the people.

If we see the "Canada's Next Prime Minister' show, the brown South Asian contestants are voted off the first. That shows how bad the racial relations are in Canada as the white canadians just don't identify nor give an opportunity to non-white folks.

Cheering Obama is just a way of these closet racists polarize the issue by believing that Canada's race relations are solved due to American Presidency. Many here and in the US (Virginia, NC etc.) will support Obama but I bet that if he makes even the slightest of mistakes will put the entire black race under scrutiny.

g_bambino · January 19, 2009

Now, don't bring Michelle Jean as she's not really 'elected' by the people.

Of course she isn't. But, then, neither is the Prime Minister. All you've done here, trooper, is illustrate how Americanised many Canadians' views on their government have become: the PM is our popularly elected head of state. That is, of course, wrong on more than one count, and it is only with such a misconception governing one's thoughts that the conclusion is reached that Canada will never have a visible minority in high office.

The truth of the matter is that Michaelle Jean currently wields more power than her prime minister, and was appointed to represent the personification of the Canadian state. Yet, still, it seems canucks would rather dismiss their own in favour tagging along to someone else's party. I find the whole thing really quite pathetic.

_{[ed. to expand]}

Edited January 19, 2009 by g_bambino

BigAl · January 19, 2009

Each president leaves a mark on the the US....some good...some bad. But heralding Obama as a political Messiah only sets him up for failure.
Understood, but my larger point was the impact of President Calderon on a nation in far greater despair. Investing so much in Obama and the US is a distortion.

Setting ANYBODY up as a political messiah is a bad idea -- but after eight years of the Bush administration, I can hardly blame people for being excited. Of course, after twenty years of economic depression, Germany was excited about Hitler too...don't know what that means, and clearly Obama is no Hitler, but the lesson remains -- don't get too excited too quickly, eh?

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2009

Setting ANYBODY up as a political messiah is a bad idea -- but after eight years of the Bush administration, I can hardly blame people for being excited. Of course, after twenty years of economic depression, Germany was excited about Hitler too...don't know what that means, and clearly Obama is no Hitler, but the lesson remains -- don't get too excited too quickly, eh?

The excitement is just part of the campaign afterglow and culmination of effort, soon to be overcome by the realities of office. Obama doesn't even have the degree of "mandate" afforded President Reagan, who moved forward without the benefit of an on side Congress. Obama is going to make hard choices that pit different interests against each other, and he has already alienated the most left-leaning Progressives, just like Bill Clinton.

bush_cheney2004 · January 19, 2009

Of course she isn't. But, then, neither is the Prime Minister. All you've done here, trooper, is illustrate how Americanised many Canadians' views on their government have become: the PM is our popularly elected head of state.....

Why / how can that be? How is it possible for so many in Canada to proudly define themselves (as different) using America as a foil, yet fall into the very trap you describe? Does "cult of personality" trump the most basic of a civics education.....flashing on and off for each American president depending on ruling party and policies? Obama hasn't even served a single day in office.

g_bambino · January 19, 2009

How is it possible for so many in Canada to proudly define themselves (as different) using America as a foil, yet fall into the very trap you describe?

I've wondered this very same thing recently. The best I've come up with so far is that Canadians will douse America with effusive approval as long as the country is doing things in the "Canadian way". The election of Obama to the presidency has not only installed what is perceived as the anti-Bush, but Barack also has the added bonus of brown skin, which makes him doubly attractive to Canadians, who always seem eager to over-hype any visible minority's so-called struggle through victimhood. Michaelle Jean got some of this attention when she was appointed as viceroy, but the amount of coverage, and the style of it, was nothing compared to what Canadian outlets are giving to the US president-elect right now. Ironically, even the Governor General herself has launched a "youth dialogue" on the election of Obama and a viewing of the inauguration right in Rideau Hall !

But, why the sycophantic outpouring for a foreign figure over our own home-grown examples? I don't know. To my observation, the whole affair is starting to resemble the cult that built itself around the former Princess of Wales - without an ounce of logic and a great deal of raw emotion, whole swaths of the earth's population have latched onto a symbolic image that suits their own smug narcissism. Good 'ol Rex Murphy put it well in his recent Globe piece:

Barack Obama... makes those people who support him, even in countries other than his own, feel better that they support him... Who does not feel warm all over about being on the right side of that liberating milestone? There's a little harmless self-validation in being an Obama fan... Some of that same powerful transport has found a reception in Canada. So however cold it may be, the day he alights on Parliament Hill will be for many as if the wildest fevers of Al Gore have stoked a fire in their hearts. The cool guy will warm the coldest city.

At least Diana was part of our royal family, though.

bush_cheney2004 · January 20, 2009

...But, why the sycophantic outpouring for a foreign figure over our own home-grown examples? I don't know. To my observation, the whole affair is starting to resemble the cult that built itself around the former Princess of Wales - without an ounce of logic and a great deal of raw emotion, whole swaths of the earth's population have latched onto a symbolic image that suits their own smug narcissism.
....At least Diana was part of our royal family, though.

I think you are correct....the outpouring of support for a presumed alignment with Canadian values (Obama) is only matched by an equally strong loathing for the opposite (Bush). But either way, it is evidence of a domestic neurosis that will be cured by neither. Last night I watched The National on C-SPAN2, and were it not for the crawling text bug, I would have thought the CBC was reporting the inauguration of the Canadian head-of-state.

Smallc · January 20, 2009

Last night I watched The National on C-SPAN2, and were it not for the crawling text bug, I would have thought the CBC was reporting the inauguration of the Canadian head-of-state.

That's funny, I watched the same National and I never got that impression. I'm watching BBC World right now. Half of it was focused on the US Inauguration. Maybe I should assume they think its their head of state too? Or perhaps I would just assume that they are focusing on an important world event.

tango · January 20, 2009

I fell some envy for the US today, because we have such duds as politicians. There is no excitement, no light at the end of the tunnel in Canadian politics, even with the present 'crisis'.

It's just about as depressing as ... winter. :blink:

Mr.Canada · January 20, 2009

I fell some envy for the US today, because we have such duds as politicians. There is no excitement, no light at the end of the tunnel in Canadian politics, even with the present 'crisis'.
It's just about as depressing as ... winter.

Just wait til government sits again. Tell me if you find it boring...hehe.

bush_cheney2004 · January 20, 2009

...Maybe I should assume they think its their head of state too? Or perhaps I would just assume that they are focusing on an important world event.

Yes, because as of yesterday / last night, there was no event to report. The CBC has gone out of its way to fawn over Obama with such things as a "49 Canadian songs for Obama" contest.

Canada has a new "president". :lol: