Why can't Iran have nuclear power?

dub · January 20, 2009

There we have it - the difference in values!
"Almost stopped completely"? What the hell does that mean? "Gee Mrs. Goldman, sorry that rocket landed on your house where your children had been sleeping. Still, the rockets had almost stopped!"

ONE rocket launched at innocents is a vile, disgusting terrorist act!

To me, someone claiming virtue for "almost stopping" killing innocents as their main target is incomprehensible. It illustrates the difference in core values and is why Hamas and similar groups perpetuate the western notion that Arab protesters are "mad dogs" that cannot be reasoned with.

haha @ "one rocket launched at innocents is a vile, disgusting terrorist act". that's kind of a funny thing to say for someone like you. everyone has seen how much you've cared about the casualties on the arab side done by the israeli military. do you notice your own double standards which is caused by your racist view of the situation?

Edited January 20, 2009 by dub

DogOnPorch · January 20, 2009

i was talking about the 1948 war.
you still haven't told me exactly where i'm ignorant when it comes to the geneva convention.

The 1948 War was pretty evenly matched with reinforcements arriving through-out the conflict on both sides. At first the Israelis were outnumbered and suffered from a chronic lack of ammo & weapons. The Arabs ranged from well armed (Arab Legion) to not so well armed (Arab militia). The key to this war was keeping the Jerusalem/Tel Aviv road open so Israeli supplies and fresh troops could reach the city (Jerusalem). Many battles were fought along the route between the Jews and the Mufti's men. An interesting, colourful war from a historical pov.

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It's a Daisy.

Edited January 20, 2009 by DogOnPorch

M.Dancer · January 20, 2009

haha @ "one rocket launched at innocents is a vile, disgusting terrorist act". that's kind of a funny thing to say for someone like you. everyone has seen how much you've cared about the casualties on the arab side done by the israeli military. do you notice your own double standards which is caused by your racist view of the situation?

Would it be your own racism that prevents you from differing between targeting Jewish civilians and arab fighters? Hmmmm?

M.Dancer · January 20, 2009

i was talking about the 1948 war.
you still haven't told me exactly where i'm ignorant when it comes to the geneva convention.

You think the Geneva convention prevents Israel from defending itself because civilians get hurt. Under the GC, civilians do not prohibit an armed reaction no matter how may people ignorant of the articles bring them up.

dub · January 20, 2009

Would it be your own racism that prevents you from differing between targeting Jewish civilians and arab fighters? Hmmmm?

when you have close to 400 children dead in a couple of weeks, it's obvious that the israeli military is not differing between civilians and fighters. stop being a disgusting person and stop making excuses for civilian deaths.

Edited January 20, 2009 by dub

dub · January 20, 2009

You think the Geneva convention prevents Israel from defending itself because civilians get hurt. Under the GC, civilians do not prohibit an armed reaction no matter how may people ignorant of the articles bring them up.

israel has violated the fourth geneva convention. not sure why you try to dispute this.

dub · January 20, 2009

The 1948 War was pretty evenly matched with reinforcements arriving through-out the conflict on both sides. At first the Israelis were outnumbered and suffered from a chronic lack of ammo & weapons. The Arabs ranged from well armed (Arab Legion) to not so well armed (Arab militia). The key to this war was keeping the Jerusalem/Tel Aviv road open so Israeli supplies and fresh troops could reach the city (Jerusalem). Many battles were fought along the route between the Jews and the Mufti's men. An interesting, colourful war from a historical pov.
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It's a Daisy.

there were a few battles that were evenly matched, however, at the end, israel's weapons which was given to them by the west, dominated the arab military.

bush_cheney2004 · January 20, 2009

israel has violated the fourth geneva convention. not sure why you try to dispute this.

Because Israel has done no such thing. You obviously do not understand the Articles of GCIV, and more importantly, have not demonstrated any relevant violations by Israel.

DogOnPorch · January 20, 2009

there were a few battles that were evenly matched, however, at the end, israel's weapons which was given to them by the west, dominated the arab military.

...and where do Arabs get their tanks, artillery, small-arms, etc? The Weapon Fairy? The SCUD tree? The Nerve Gas pond?

:lol: :lol:

The Arabs in 1948 had possession of many of the WW2 tanks, aircraft and weapons left in the area from the Afrika Campaign by the British. In more modern wars, the Soviets armed the Arab forces for 'free'...well, for Soviet interests.

During the 1948 War, Israel useds such modern weapons as homemade mortars (Davidkas), surplus WW1 rifles still packed in their grease and armored buses. The rest of the weapons (no tanks...no heavy guns...few aircraft) were donated by Jewish groups World-wide. The supply lines were very shakey (see Leon Uris's classic, Exodus).

During the Cold War (remember?) the Arabs were defacto Warsaw Pact nations (the enemy) while Israel was, by-and-large, an outpost for NATO in the Middle-East (chums).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

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A satisfied customer - we should have him stuffed.

---Basil Fawlty

Edited January 20, 2009 by DogOnPorch

dub · January 20, 2009

Because Israel has done no such thing. You obviously do not understand the Articles of GCIV, and more importantly, have not demonstrated any relevant violations by Israel.

politiical lessons on online forums can only go so far. you should be doing your own research to learn about israel and the geneva convention.

have a look at this information page and perhaps you will learn something: http://www.jfjfp.org/factsheets/geneva4.htm

dub · January 20, 2009

...and where do Arabs get their tanks, artillery, small-arms, etc? The Weapon Fairy? The SCUD tree? The Nerve Gas pond?

The Arabs in 1948 had possession of many of the WW2 tanks, aircraft and weapons left in the area from the Afrika Campaign by the British. In more modern wars, the Soviets armed the Arab forces for 'free'...well, for Soviet interests.

During the 1948 War, Israel useds such modern weapons as homemade mortars (Davidkas), surplus WW1 rifles still packed in their grease and armored buses. The rest of the weapons (no tanks...no heavy guns...few aircraft) were donated by Jewish groups World-wide. The supply lines were very shakey (see Leon Uris's classic, Exodus).

During the Cold War (remember?) the Arabs were defacto Warsaw Pact nations (the enemy) while Israel was, by-and-large, an outpost for NATO in the Middle-East (chums).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

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A satisfied customer - we should have him stuffed.

---Basil Fawlty

from your own wikipedia, where my point is confirmed:

On the eve of the war the number of Arab troops likely to be committed to the war was about 23,000

and

The Yishuv had 35,000 troops of the Haganah, 3,000 of Stern and Irgun

and further down, again, more information that you seem to have missed:

As the war progressed, the IDF managed to field more troops than the Arab forces. By July 1948, the IDF was fielding 63,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949.

furthermore, while the arabs were using the british planes left from the WW2, the israelis, ironically, were using nazi made planes they received from czech.

M.Dancer · January 20, 2009

politiical lessons on online forums can only go so far. you should be doing your own research to learn about israel and the geneva convention.
have a look at this information page and perhaps you will learn something: http://www.jfjfp.org/factsheets/geneva4.htm

Nice try but using some dubious site that doesn't understand the GC doesn't really help prove youdo....

To wit, checkpoints aren't a violation of the GC and neither are any of so called violations.

All you have proved is stupidity loves company.

DogOnPorch · January 20, 2009

from your own wikipedia, where my point is confirmed:
On the eve of the war the number of Arab troops likely to be committed to the war was about 23,000

and

The Yishuv had 35,000 troops of the Haganah, 3,000 of Stern and Irgun

and further down, again, more information that you seem to have missed:

As the war progressed, the IDF managed to field more troops than the Arab forces. By July 1948, the IDF was fielding 63,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949.

furthermore, while the arabs were using the british planes left from the WW2, the israelis, ironically, were using nazi made planes they received from czech.

I didn't miss anything.

As the war progressed, the IDF managed to field more troops than the Arab forces. By July 1948, the IDF was fielding 63,000 troops; by early spring 1949, 115,000. The Arab armies had an estimated 40,000 troops in July 1948, rising to 55,000 in October 1948, and slightly more by the spring of 1949.

Not all the Israelis were armed combat troops (as Wiki also mentions). If averaged-out, only one out of three were armed at the begining of the war. 35,000+ militia & soldiers....only about 20,000 guns of all types. Militia units also included the kibbutzim who were often not much more than eager civilians (many female). The weapon & ammo shortage was most felt in Jerusalem where there practically no weapons or ammo (thus the all important convoys).

Yes re: German and Czech planes. Donations. Re: Arabs in Spitfires etc, I mentioned they had much of the WW2 weapons from the area....Spits included. The Israelis even managed to get a few tanks by capturing Arab (ex-British) ones.

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It's a Daisy.

wulf42 · January 20, 2009

Israel did what it had to do! If the people of Gaza didn't want this they shouldn't have elected TERRORIST'S to represent them. Ham-ass fires rocket into Israel what in the hell do you think they are going to do? they warned Hamas over and over again to stop firing rockets or else! did they listen? nope ..........so the hell with them they received what they deserved ,they wanted war and Israel gave them one and they paid one heck of a price...when will these people learn don't mess with the Israeli's!

Edited January 20, 2009 by wulf42

bush_cheney2004 · January 21, 2009

politiical lessons on online forums can only go so far. you should be doing your own research to learn about israel and the geneva convention.

You have clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding about both. No matter how "outraged" you or others may be about what has transpired, Israel's actions do not meet the legal test for "war crimes", GC violations, or even "crimes against the peace".

We get this same reflex spawned "war crimes" ignorance each time Israel engages her enemies, but not when Israel is attacked, and that is why they have zero credibility, let alone a single conviction in any court.

jbg · January 21, 2009

Would it be your own racism that prevents you from differing between targeting Jewish civilians and arab fighters? Hmmmm?

No. Racists, in this context, are only successful people asserting their rights vis a vis savage or unsuccessful people.

Mr.Canada · January 21, 2009

This is how I see it playing out.

Iran gets nuclear power. Russia and China back Iran quietly, even secretly. Iran backs Palestine so the next time Israel starts the Gaza raids Iran comes to the defense. The US enters the fray which draws Russia into the conflict. The UK enters the war bringing China and N.Korea. WWIII and finally an end to this stupid crap.

dub · January 21, 2009

You have clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding about both. No matter how "outraged" you or others may be about what has transpired, Israel's actions do not meet the legal test for "war crimes", GC violations, or even "crimes against the peace".

according to the international community it does. but according to the israeli government and bush_cheney2004, it doesn't.

i wonder if the nazis also disputed that they were committing "bad" things and if they had people justifying and excusing their actions.

bush_cheney2004 · January 21, 2009

according to the international community it does. but according to the israeli government and bush_cheney2004, it doesn't.

You mean international wanksters...who never seem to be able to translate their "moral outrage" into indictments or trials.

i wonder if the nazis also disputed that they were committing "bad" things and if they had people justifying and excusing their actions.

Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies applies here.....

dub · January 21, 2009

I didn't miss anything.
Not all the Israelis were armed combat troops (as Wiki also mentions). If averaged-out, only one out of three were armed at the begining of the war. 35,000+ militia & soldiers....only about 20,000 guns of all types. Militia units also included the kibbutzim who were often not much more than eager civilians (many female). The weapon & ammo shortage was most felt in Jerusalem where there practically no weapons or ammo (thus the all important convoys).

Yes re: German and Czech planes. Donations. Re: Arabs in Spitfires etc, I mentioned they had much of the WW2 weapons from the area....Spits included. The Israelis even managed to get a few tanks by capturing Arab (ex-British) ones.

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It's a Daisy.

i don't get it. you just quoted the same thing i did where it mentions that israel had more troops than the arabs, yet you continue to say i'm wrong?

dub · January 21, 2009

You mean international wanksters...who never seem to be able to translate their "moral outrage" into indictments or trials.
Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies applies here.....

international wanksters to some people like yourself... international law experts, world leaders and organizations like red cross to most others.

DogOnPorch · January 21, 2009

i don't get it. you just quoted the same thing i did where it mentions that israel had more troops than the arabs, yet you continue to say i'm wrong?

As the war progressed, the IDF managed to field more troops than the Arab forces.

Meaning the Israelis didn't start out with the larger numbers.

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Ex-Leper: Half a dinare for me bloody life story?

Brian: There's no pleasing some people.

Ex-Leper: That's just what Jesus said, sir.

---Monty Python's Life of Brian

Edited January 21, 2009 by DogOnPorch

M.Dancer · January 21, 2009

international wanksters to some people like yourself... international law experts, world leaders and organizations like red cross to most others.

Is that the same Red Cross who assert that IsraAel has not used White P. illegally?

KeyStone · January 21, 2009

according to the international community it does. but according to the israeli government and bush_cheney2004, it doesn't.
i wonder if the nazis also disputed that they were committing "bad" things and if they had people justifying and excusing their actions.

Of course they did.

All good patriotic Germans found ways to close their eyes to what was going on and/or justify why it was necessary.

It was only the traitors who were against these things.

You should support your country no matter what - everyone knows that.

bush_cheney2004 · January 21, 2009

...It was only the traitors who were against these things.
You should support your country no matter what - everyone knows that.

Right....just like Canadians (or Americans) in 1999 when we bombed Serbia for 78 days and killed many civilains. Still waiting for the Chretien, Clinton, Chirac, Blair, and Schroeder war crimes trials.

Trials are held by the winners...not losers, making the entire concept a lark.