wulf42 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Israel appears to be going all the way this time, just heard on BBC reports of Israeli Ground troops entering Gaza...its going to get ugly now..damn shame it has come to this. Edited January 3, 2009 by wulf42 Quote
eyeball Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Israel appears to be going all the way this time, just heard on BBC reports of Israeli Ground troops entering Gaza...its going to get ugly now..damn shame it has come to this. You seemed positively excited about the prospect yesterday. A strong military response is what is needed against terrorists as Israel is showing the world now! Israel is getting ready to launch a ground attack...Hamas is going to get steamed rolled! Some people just can't help but get all excited and gather around when someone's getting a beating I guess. I remember seeing this sort of thing at school when I was a kid. As I recall it made a beating seem even more frightening. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
tamtam10 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Israel has just commenced its ground operation in the Gaza Strip and are already in gun battles with Hamas militants. If you want to read about the history of this conflict and how the recent violence came to be, check out: Israel & the Gaza Strip Quote www.informedvote.ca
wulf42 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Posted January 3, 2009 While i feel sorry for the civilians......i do love seeing terrorists get what they deserve!! its better than reading about all the horror they inflict all the time! Quote
wulf42 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Posted January 3, 2009 I remember seeing this sort of thing at school when I was a kid. As I recall it made a beating seem even more frightening. So you got beat up alot as a kid?? not surprised....lol Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 ...Some people just can't help but get all excited and gather around when someone's getting a beating I guess.... Yep....just like dancing in the street on 9/11. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 So you got beat up alot as a kid?? not surprised....lol Just once actually. I was only in the hospital for about two weeks though... Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
wulf42 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Posted January 3, 2009 Just once actually. I was only in the hospital for about two weeks though... lol...........we have all been there at one point, but seriously Israel had to do something everybody wants peace but like they say "anything worth having doesn't come without a fight" at least not over in that part of the world. Quote
Rue Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 It is a damn shame. No good can come from this. Innocent Gaza civilians will die. Brave IDF soldiers will die. A conventional army can not hope to win any sustained war on the ground against guerilla terrorists. I just hope to hell Israel does not stay in there too long. The longer it stays the more it risks. I am not sure what the ground war will do. To try track down Hamas terrorists in a sea of civilians is like looking for needles in a hay stack. Hamas will use the civilians like shields and deliberately put them in harms way. Enraged civilians who are not Hamas terrorists will see them as underdogs and many will protect them and in particular young boys will die as Hamas uses them as shields and deflection targets. Nothing good can come of this. Nothing. I wish the same people who are so quick to condemn Israel would be so quick to condemn Hamas and spend as much energy condemning what they do as the IDF does. If they took half the energy they spend pointing the finger at Israel and engaged in peace rallies demanding Hamas disarm and engage in peace talks, this would be the best way to turn the IDF into a moot point and get them out. I personally am not in favour of a ground war. I do not think it can eradicate Hamas. Only non Israelis going into Gaza and demanding Hamas disarm and engage in passive resistance can do that. This tribal war and escalation of tit for tat never bodes well. I favour Israel's right to exist and defend itself against terror and I detest Hamas but sending in conventional armies to try fight terrorists never works. What we need is diplomacy. What we need are neutral parties offering to step in today and act as observers on the ground and disarm Hamas. What we need is the Arab League once and for all saying enough with the terror talk to Israel. For Israeli moderates to be able to talk down their own right wing and pro military supporters at this point is moderates in the Arab world doing the same with Hamas. Is that possible? Can any moderate Palestinian speak out against Hamas without fear of looking like a traitor and collaborator? Can any moderate Israeli speak out for peaceful dialogue at this point as long as the missiles never stop? The answer is yes but unfortunately innocent people will first have to die. Hamas is not an entity that will engage in dialogue. Whether the followers of Mr. Abbas can remains to be seen. What we do know is the rubble of Gaza can only generate the kind of grass roots hatred among the traumatized Gaza civilians that Hamas wants precisely to fuel polarization and the next generation of terrorists. What is proportional response to Hamas missiles? I am not sure. I am not a military expert. I am not there on the ground. I can not presume to know but I fear a prolonged street war is not the solution. Quote
Dog Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I am not Jewish but like most i am fed up with this never ending garbage . I wish they would just kill everything that moves in Gaza and get this over with . Quote
eyeball Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Yep....just like dancing in the street on 9/11. Exactly. The problem is though if you're not willing to dance for whatever street the WTC was on it's assumed you must be wearing an undershirt with a bullseye on it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Rue Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) I am not Jewish but like most i am fed up with this never ending garbage . I wish they would just kill everything that moves in Gaza and get this over with . I really do believe the bluntness of Bush-Chaney or Argus or some others such as you as much as I am uncomfortable with the comments quite frankly are probably far more realistic then what I dream of being possible and should be done. I admit that. But I tense up when I hear such talk. As a strong supporter of Israel and a Zionist I can tell you the vision of the Jewish state and Zionism was not one of killing innocent civilians. It was never part of the vision of Israel and it can never be and I can assure you no matter what some may believe, the vast majority of Israelis and Jews and in particular the IDF do not believe killing everything that moves in Gaza is the solution. If the IDF believed that they would not as they will continue to endanger IDF soldiers and get them killed trying to prevent innocent civilian deaths. If anyone thinks the IDF has soldiers that relish killing civilians I can only tell you I know some of them personally-these are professionals-they were not trained nor do they aspire to hurt civilians. You will not understand what it means to be a soldier forced to engage in a war of attrition against terrorists when civilians are caught in between unless you talk to them when they return and look at the fatigue in their eyes and learn from them whether they be Israelis, Americans, British or our Canadians coming back from Afghanistan. Our war veterans do not return from such wars or any wars relishing the fact they had to kill innocent people. It sticks in their gut and eats away at them for as long as they live just as the other things they saw and you would not think possible such as men raping boys or pregnant women blowing up with bombs. So I say to you gently, I can not think like you do, because I know too many Israeli war veterans, Canadian war veterans and American war veterans and I will not disrespect the price they pay and the horrible things they had to do to fight terror and live with. They didn't do it to wipe out innocent people. They did it so people like you and me can remain innocent and live in freedom. Soldiers go in because politicians fail. Terrorism is a symptom of the failure of humankind to evolve past its primate instincts and use the gift of free choice that supposedly makes us different then all other life forms. So excuse me but I can not speak in such tones. I respect the sacrifice our military makes too much to think like that. I just can't. I can't also in good consciousness challenge the next generation to be peaceful and not take sides but encourage both sides equally to engage in peace if I were to talk like that. For heaven's sake do we not have an obligation to leave something meaningful behind for the next generations? Edited January 3, 2009 by Rue Quote
eyeball Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) I am not Jewish but like most i am fed up with this never ending garbage . I wish they would just kill everything that moves in Gaza and get this over with . Aren't you the same charmer that said... Most Canadians are fed up with the indians . Now would be a good time to start forming death squads and kill these POS . 'pears so. Edited January 4, 2009 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Dog Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 To have peace after a war you must have a winner and a loser . Kill eveything that breathes in Gaza or until they unconditionaly surrender . I did not say anything about the IDF relishing what must be done but it must be done , kill them all . Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Terrorists need to be exterminated. Quote
eyeball Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Soldiers go in because politicians fail. A conventional army can not hope to win any sustained war on the ground against guerilla terrorists. Maybe we should throw all the politicians into a pit and let them tear each other to pieces for a change. I'll bring the party hats. I'll paint little bullseyes on them. I get excited just thinking about it. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
wulf42 Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Posted January 3, 2009 I support Israel 100% but having said that i do feel sorry for the civilians who want nothing to do with this...but Hamas bears the blame completely for this situation they wanted Israel to attack so they can say "look what the Israeli's did". Now that it is started i hope Israel kills every single Hamas member it can! Quote
Yorkness Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 While it is quite easy to avoid civilian casualtes in densely-populated Gaza I must ask if much of the presumed civilian Gazan innocence is misrepresented. Remember that Hamas won a majority which helped lead to it's increased and finally complete influence over Gaza. Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 While it is quite easy to avoid civilian casualtes in densely-populated Gaza I must ask if much of the presumed civilian Gazan innocence is misrepresented. Remember that Hamas won a majority which helped lead to it's increased and finally complete influence over Gaza.Your point is bang on. The Gazans voted for Hamas and now they get to live, or die, with the consequences. I am tired of "world opinion" siding with murderous thugs such as Hamas and sub silentio denying Israel's right to defend itself. This is a case of "West bad, enemies good". Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Your point is bang on. The Gazans voted for Hamas and now they get to live, or die, with the consequences. I am tired of "world opinion" siding with murderous thugs such as Hamas and sub silentio denying Israel's right to defend itself. This is a case of "West bad, enemies good". Honestly, your outlook is so warped by your bias that I think you have no clue what the world wants. Must everybody include a disclaimer to remind people like you just because they don't agree with Israel's tactics or are against the killing of innocent people (children) that they don't agree or side with terrorist organizations? Both sides in this issue are WRONG, but you just can't get over your warped bias and crass hypocracy. Sure, Israel has a right to defend itself, and people who are concerned about human rights have the right to voice criticism when there are human rights violations. That's all part of being a grown up nation, so stop being whining hypocrite about it; typical lefty, though, always this dance between equality and special rights... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 While it is quite easy to avoid civilian casualtes in densely-populated Gaza I must ask if much of the presumed civilian Gazan innocence is misrepresented. Remember that Hamas won a majority which helped lead to it's increased and finally complete influence over Gaza. Nobody who knows anything about warfare would suggest that avoiding civilian casualties in this kind of situation is "quite easy". But whatever the case, I think we know enough nowadays about radicalization of populations to know that people who are content and live in free and prosperous conditions tend not to vent their frustrations through radical politics. There are causes to situations like this, but people don't want to address them or rectify them, and when this is the case, then people turn to more militant means of conflict resolution. Whatever the case, I hope that everyone (that includes jbq) will agree that the children are innocent victims in all of this. Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 ... Whatever the case, I hope that everyone (that includes jbq) will agree that the children are innocent victims in all of this. Speak for yourself....there are no innocent victims. They are all victims, but at a totally different level. Mixing in your own bias and judgements is just self serving. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Oleg Bach Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Speak for yourself....there are no innocent victims. They are all victims, but at a totally different level. Mixing in your own bias and judgements is just self serving. SELF SERVING - Is what brought this whole mess about. The stero-typical Jewish cheapness and self absorbed insanity - where in the mind of the Jew, no one counts but the Jew. This anti-social behaviour is what brought this horrific holocaust of the Jews' Palistinian brothers into being. You can not send billions of dollars in aid and private donations to a people that really produce nothing of value - other than sit their on their lazy asses and parrot the words "homeland" over and over again - and "God's choosen people" - over and over again. Now it's to late - the Palistinians were just cheap labour for the fat assed latka eating...retards....something had to break - and if the Jews were not so self centred and exploitive of the Palistinians...the PALISTINIANS WOULD NEVER HAVE CUDDLED UP TO HAMAS! Never! - You go to where your bread is buttered and to who feeds you...The Jews fed themselves and keep the Palistinians as slaves - cheap son's of bitches....those pesky Jews..Now it will cost them billions to settle the matter...and it will bring about crazed anti-semitism as they have never known before...what was Israel thinking - have all the elders died off and have they forgotten their history - and are now bound to repeat the past - This is horrific stupidy - all they had to do was bribe Palistine - but they think it's CHEAPER - To kill them - what a shame. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 This anti-social behaviour is what brought this horrific holocaust of the Jews' Palistinian brothers into being. You can not send billions of dollars in aid and private donations to a people that really produce nothing of value - other than sit their on their lazy asses and parrot the words "homeland" over and over again - and "God's choosen people" - over and over again. Oleg, your computer and cell phone contain integrated circuts that were probably designed and manufactured in Tel Aviv. ----------------------------------------- Dr. Evil: Son, wouldn't you like to see what daddy does for a living? Scott Evil: Blow me. Dr. Evil: What? Scott Evil: Show me. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jbg Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Honestly, your outlook is so warped by your bias that I think you have no clue what the world wants.Nor do I particularly care. The world's view towards Jewry is at best ambiguous; it wants the benefits of commerce, banking and the professions that Jews, as a group, are thought to excel at, and the world is not so sure that they ant the Jews to have an independent political existence of even absolute security and safety. Many people of good will (and I am tentatively placing you in that group) want the Jews to exist but under control by either Muslims or Christians. Thus, the Jews come in for higher criticism when they need to use violence to defend their rights.Nobody who knows anything about warfare would suggest that avoiding civilian casualties in this kind of situation is "quite easy". "Impossible" is a more apt term when the combatants use poster-child innocents as human shields. But whatever the case, I think we know enough nowadays about radicalization of populations to know that people who are content and live in free and prosperous conditions tend not to vent their frustrations through radical politics. There are causes to situations like this, but people don't want to address them or rectify them, and when this is the case, then people turn to more militant means of conflict resolution.Did the post-Holocaust Jews, when still in Europe, turn to more "militant" methods such as attacking Christians at random? Whatever the case, I hope that everyone (that includes jbq) will agree that the children are innocent victims in all of this.Are you saying that the use of human shields should immunize the users from retaliation? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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