bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I know the question was directed at me, but I think Rosenberg nails the answer to this one: The question was not directed at you.....but that never mattered, right? According to Rosenberg, it all goes back to the 1967 borders. link I agree 100%. Yea, but you don't have an army and air force. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Yeah, it's the result of the same post-colonial mentality that gave rise to Israel, so... So what you're saying is that if someone wants to create a modern, Western country, bad; a misery-wracked dictatorship, good? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
BC_chick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) The question was not directed at you.....but that never mattered, right? Yea, but you don't have an army and air force. I actually caught my error and corrected it before you pointed it out. Why don't you try commenting on the substance of the post instead of pointing out errors? You asked for a solution, I quoted someone who spelled it out better than I ever could. Anything to add now that you got your 'solution'? Edited January 3, 2009 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I actually caught my error and corrected it before you pointed it out. Why don't you try commenting on the substance of the post instead of pointing out errors? Apparently not...It's not my fault that you are error prone. You asked for a solution, I quoted someone who spelled it out better than I ever could. Anything to add now that you got your 'solution'? You have just contradicted yourself...oooopps....that would be another error! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 So what you're saying is that if someone wants to create a modern, Western country, bad; a misery-wracked dictatorship, good? That is nonsense jbg, what kind of western democracy other than Israel has a two-tier system for its citizens where one group is subjected to point-checks, colour-coded license plates, separate roads, systematic uprooting and prohibition from living in certain neighbourhoods? Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
BC_chick Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Apparently not...It's not my fault that you are error prone. QUOTE(bush_cheney2004 @ Jan 2 2009, 07:36 PM) * So what's your solution, genius? BC_chick: I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I think Rosenberg nails the answer to this one [...] No surprise, BC2004 is at a loss for (intelligent) words. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 No surprise, BC2004 is at a loss for (intelligent) words. I obviously don't need them for your posts. The good ammo is expensive! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I think Rosenberg nails the answer to this one:According to Rosenberg, it all goes back to the 1967 borders. link I agree 100%. I just read Mr. Rosenberg's fatuous post. The problem is that the proposed recognition came with it the "right of return". The Arabs basically demanded the right to flood Israel with an unlimited number of "returnees". Had the Arab countries not offloaded their Jewish populations in 1948, the argument might have some appeal. Israel was forced to absorb millions of those refugees and it did not confine them to squalid refugee camps in order to turn them into human bombs. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 I just read Mr. Rosenberg's fatuous post. The problem is that the proposed recognition came with it the "right of return". The Arabs basically demanded the right to flood Israel with an unlimited number of "returnees". Of course.....any idiot who has been alive since 1960 knows this drill. Next.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Canada is irrelevant when it comes to this conflict....not even a small player in the region. Except for the "honest broker" fairytales for the masses.Peacekeeper? You must be joking. You are irrelevant. Why don't you scuttle off to another message board until you have something useful to say. Im tired of your crap. Whenever you can't think of anything as a response, you twist it into some anti-Canada bash. If we're so irrelevant, then why are you posting on a Canadian message board? Make like you your username and just go away. Edited January 3, 2009 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 You are irrelevant. Why don't you scuttle off to another message board until you have something useful to say. Because you didn't say please. Im tired of your crap. Whenever you can't think of anything as a response, you twist it into some anti-Canada bash. If we're so irrelevant, then why are you posting on a Canadian message board? That's the funniest part of all. What's a matta...don't like criticism? You can dish it out but not take "my crap"? Sometimes I get bored...but I'll be damned if someone doesn't post some inane comment and perk me right up! Thank You! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 So what you're saying is that if someone wants to create a modern, Western country, bad; a misery-wracked dictatorship, good? Uh, no, I'm saying that post-colonialism created a whole mess that includes Israel. It's funny how you refer to Israel as "western" because that's exactly NOT what it is. It's a Middle Eastern country with Middle Eastern cultural problems. It's also kind of odd how Israel finds justification for its existance both in terms of its archaic tribal past and "western democratic" form of government. Whatever argument suits the moment, I guess... Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Uh, no, I'm saying that post-colonialism created a whole mess that includes Israel.... No problema....Israel has only had 60 years to subjugate its PalestIndians.....took Canada and America 100 years! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Uh, no, I'm saying that post-colonialism created a whole mess that includes Israel. It's funny how you refer to Israel as "western" because that's exactly NOT what it is. It's a Middle Eastern country with Middle Eastern cultural problems. It's also kind of odd how Israel finds justification for its existance both in terms of its archaic tribal past and "western democratic" form of government. Whatever argument suits the moment, I guess...I guess you have a limited understandingof the basis for democracy. Democracy is based upon the rule of law and the willingness of people to be bound by a decision lawfully taken (the formation of a "coalition" to end-around the popular will is an exception to such democracy, of course). Exactly the reason that Israel has such strong democratic roots is the adherence of the Jewish people to the Old Testament, which has uniersally applicable laws and codes of ethics. The reason that unfortunately, democracy does not engraft so easily on surrounding societies is the lack of willingness to adhere to law. A country may have elected Parliaments and leaders but if people don't take their disputes "inside" but contine to duke it out on the streets, despit the form of elections you don't have a democracy. Thus, a battle of Hamas v. Fatah, even if fought out nominally in an electoral form, is not a democracy.No, you're going to say that the "rule of law" should apply among nations as well as wthin a nation. I did not fall into any such trap. Among nations, the U.N. would have been a good way to accomplish such a result, except that no one would be willing to be consistently bound by it. It is ludicrous to expect that welathy nations are going to be bound by a majority vote of dictatorships whose U.N. representatives represent themselves or maybe their dictators. Further, U.N. states that don't like their neighbors now simply employ irregular fighters, such as Hamas, Hezbollah, the Janjaweed and the like so that U.N. member state is in nomial ocmpliance with the Charter while arranging for the appropriate, supposedly "banned" bloodshed. As far as Israel being a "Western-style democracy" the term "Judeo-Christian" still has meaning. The concept of rule of law, and thus government with the participation of and consent of the people is one of the things in common between Western countries and Israel. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Denying any nation's right to exist is genocide. Denying a Jewish nation its right to exists has been done to death. Welcome to the banality of idiotic reruns. So, what about Palestine? Does that exist anymore? Is it a genocide of the Palestinians because they really have no more homeland? Quote
Keepitsimple Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 Palestine is an apartheid state now. With Arabs treated as second class citizens. I find it funny that people here are against racism and discrimination in Canada but it's fine for Jews to discriminate against Arabs and that is perfectly acceptable. Hypocrisy of the left wing, typical. If the US stopped sending Billions to Israel every year in cash and military equipment Israel would be gone in less than a year. Arabs who live in Israel are arguably the most free in the Arab world.....they comprise 20% of Israel's population. Arab countries continue to use the Palestinian situation as a tool to continue the Arab siege of Israel. In the past 60 years, why have they not made any effort to assimilate Palestinians, thus reducing the population in the area, reducing the volatility, and allowing the progression towards a Palesdtinian homeland as envisioned back in 1948? Why? Because they cannot accept Israel. One thing that a lot of people miss......in 1948, the area was occupied by both jews and arabs but there was never an Israel and there was NEVER a Palestine country - it was simply an unclaimed wasteland with historical ties to ancient tribes. That's why it made such an attractive place to split up - nobody wanted it. From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Arab Arab citizens of Israel[2] refers to Arabs or Arabic-speaking people who are citizens of Israel who are not Jewish.[3][4] Arab citizens of Israel are often called Arab Israelis or Israeli Arabs, a term with which some identify but the majority reject. (See notes on terminology below.)Arab citizens comprise almost 20% of the population of Israel. The majority identify themselves as Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship.[5] Many Arab citizens hold a range of ties, including family ties, to Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. There has been relatively greater emphasis on Israeli identity among the Bedouin[6] and Druze, with all of the Druze drafted into compulsory military service[7][8] and a dwindling number of Bedouin volunteering.[9] Special cases are Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied and administered by Israel since the Six-Day War of 1967. The residents of East Jerusalem became permanent residents of Israel shortly after the war. Although they hold Israeli ID cards, only a few of them applied for Israeli citizenship, to which they are entitled, and most of them keep close ties with the West Bank.[10] However, as permanent residents, they are entitled to vote for Jerusalem municipal elections, although a low percentage does so. The mostly Druze residents of the Golan Heights are considered permanent residents under the Golan Heights Law of 1981. Few of them have accepted full Israeli citizenship, and the vast majority consider themselves to be citizens of Syria.[11] Terms used to refer to Arab citizens of Israel in the Arab media or Arabic cultural lexicon are "the Arabs of '48", "the Palestinians of '48"[18] or "the Arabs within" (عرب الداخل). These terms do not include the East Jerusalem Arab population or the Druze in the Golan Heights since these territories are considered to have been occupied by Israel since 1967. Many Arab citizens of Israel prefer to call themselves simply "Palestinians in Israel" or "Palestinian citizens of Israel." "Arabs of Israel", "Arab Israelis", "Israeli Arabs", "Arab population of Israel", "Arab inhabitants" or the "Arab sector" are terms used by Israeli authorities, Jewish population of Israel and by the Hebrew-speaking media in Israel, to refer to Arabs that are citizens and/or residents of the State of Israel.[19][20][21] The Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, for example, therefore includes Arab permanent residents of Israel who do not hold Israeli citizenship in its census figures. As a result, the number of Arabs in Israel is calculated as 1,413,300 people or 19.7% of the Israeli population (2006).[1] These figures include about 250,000 Arabs in East Jerusalem, and about 19,000 Druze in the Golan Heights. Generally Jews who emigrated or were expelled from their historic homes throughout the Arab world following the establishment of Israel in 1948, as well as their Israeli-born sabra descendants, do not identify as Arabs, though they and their ancestors were traditionally Arabic-speaking Jews and a minority of Mizrahi Jews still identify today as Arab Jews. According to Israel's official demographic dichotomy between "Arabs" and Jews, Jews of all backgrounds are officially accounted for, collectively and without distinction solely as Jews, while persons of Arab cultural and/or linguistic heritage of any faith other than Jewish, are accounted for as "Arabs". Quote Back to Basics
jbg Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 So, what about Palestine? Does that exist anymore? Is it a genocide of the Palestinians because they really have no more homeland?"Palestine" was an unbordered part of the Ottoman Empire. It only acquired an identity with the British mandate. Why not factor in "Transjordan" into the mix of options as to how to handle the alleged "Palestinians"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Kitchener Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 One thing that a lot of people miss......in 1948, the area was occupied by both jews and arabs but there was never an Israel and there was NEVER a Palestine country - it was simply an unclaimed wasteland with historical ties to ancient tribes. That's why it made such an attractive place to split up - nobody wanted it. Plausibly, people "miss" this because it's an obvious falsehood. "The area" was productive and populated; it was a known exporter of olive oil, fruit, and other products, and it was wanted by the people who lived there, tending crops, and orchards, and their homes. Quote
Ontario Loyalist Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 As far as Israel being a "Western-style democracy" the term "Judeo-Christian" still has meaning. The concept of rule of law, and thus government with the participation of and consent of the people is one of the things in common between Western countries and Israel. Yeah, but where in the OT does it state that Israel has to be a "western-style" democracy beholden to the rule of law and not to GOD? At what point are you going to realize that GOD no longer favours the Jews, and that this began a long time ago? The justification for occupying the land that consists of Israel is really a sham, isn't it? Judges 2: 11-15 11-13The LORD had brought their ancestors out of Egypt, and they had worshiped him. But now the Israelites stopped worshiping the LORD and worshiped the idols of Baal and Astarte, as well as the idols of other gods from nearby nations. 14-15The LORD was so angry at the Israelites that he let other nations raid Israel and steal their crops and other possessions. Enemies were everywhere, and the LORD always let them defeat Israel in battle. The LORD had warned Israel he would do this, and now the Israelites were miserable. Quote Some of us on here appreciate a view OTHER than the standard conservative crap. Keep up the good work and heck, they have not banned me yet so you are safe Cheers! Drea
madmax Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 The question was not directed at you.....but that never mattered, right? Yea, but you don't have an army and air force. or Nuclear bombs like Israel and the US. Quote
LesterDC Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) Yeah, but where in the OT does it state that Israel has to be a "western-style" democracy beholden to the rule of law and not to GOD? At what point are you going to realize that GOD no longer favours the Jews, and that this began a long time ago? The justification for occupying the land that consists of Israel is really a sham, isn't it? Judges 2: 11-15 11-13The LORD had brought their ancestors out of Egypt, and they had worshiped him. But now the Israelites stopped worshiping the LORD and worshiped the idols of Baal and Astarte, as well as the idols of other gods from nearby nations. 14-15The LORD was so angry at the Israelites that he let other nations raid Israel and steal their crops and other possessions. Enemies were everywhere, and the LORD always let them defeat Israel in battle. The LORD had warned Israel he would do this, and now the Israelites were miserable. It's ridiculous to justify your right to a land because of what some book says.. What if some other guy's book says something else? Edited January 3, 2009 by LesterDC Quote
Topaz Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 As I said before, make Israel a state, the president a governor, and became the newest state in the US. Aren't most of the Jewish people live in the US and Israel? Hamas, will deal with the US and not Israel and maybe a more peaceful solution. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Posted January 3, 2009 As I said before, make Israel a state, the president a governor, and became the newest state in the US. Aren't most of the Jewish people live in the US and Israel? Hamas, will deal with the US and not Israel and maybe a more peaceful solution. Won't work....too many Canadians in provinces are ahead of them in line. Some think they are states already! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
LesterDC Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Won't work....too many Canadians in provinces are ahead of them in line. Some think they are states already! Haha. Very funny. In your dreams Quote
jbg Posted January 4, 2009 Report Posted January 4, 2009 Won't work....too many Canadians in provinces are ahead of them in line. Some think they are states already! My sons were collecting quarters from all the States. I was waiting for the Ontario quarter. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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