Un-Canadian?

[dlkenny]

Why do liberal supporters on this forum find it necessary to slam CPC supporters? It seems a common theme of Liberal supporters to call CPC supporters "anti-canadian" or "pro-american" or neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatics. I've also read posts with liberal supporters calling CPC supporters "uneducated" and "stupid." Westerners are considered the "minority" and somehow don't hold "Canadian" ideas. I object to the idea that simply because I'm from BC and I voted Conservative that I am "un-canadian." We are not uneducated, we are not all religious fanatics, we are not all neo-conservative or old fashioned. We simply didn't agree with the Liberal-left ideology and voted conservative.

We are here to debate ideas within the right to freedom of speech and we are all Canadians. I suggest we stop the childish name calling and finger pointing, it's a waste of energy and gets in the way of constructive debate on this forum.

[Smallc]

Why do liberal supporters on this forum find it necessary to slam CPC supporters?

I think you should take the blinders off. Both sides do the name calling and bashing. Just don't take part in it yourself. That and reporting people is about all you can do.

[Mr.Canada]

I agree, it's very sad. I get attacked more than most due to being a very vocal right winger. I just don't name call and personally attack people. I won't respond to people who do it to me, why give them the satisfaction. I have spirited arguments sure but I won't attack people personally. I try to get people to think correctly, which is my way of coarse

[dlkenny]

I think you should take the blinders off. Both sides do the name calling and bashing. Just don't take part in it yourself. That and reporting people is about all you can do.

Perhaps both sides do it but I've yet to see a right-winger call a lefty "un-canadian." Anyway, you're right in not subscribing argument to it that's why I made a new post.

[Smallc]

Perhaps both sides do it but I've yet to see a right-winger call a lefty "un-canadian."

I've seen enough bad from both sides to know that I don't want any part of it.

[Mr.Canada]

Perhaps both sides do it but I've yet to see a right-winger call a lefty "un-canadian." Anyway, you're right in not subscribing argument to it that's why I made a new post.

Every election The Liberal party talks about 'true Canadian values' of the Liberal party. They don't see the Tories as having Canadian values so it comes from the top down. Fish stinks from the head down they say.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Partisan politics are decidedly dirty. They are another reason to seek political reforms for this nation.

[Boydfish]

I've seen enough bad from both sides to know that I don't want any part of it.

It's what drives our political system. I refer to it as the politics of demonization. While it's done in varying degrees everywhere, it pretty much defines Canadian politics. Part of it is a media-driven creation of the modern age, but I also feel it's tied to the fact that prehaps our only defining cultural feature as Canadians is the "fear of the other".

[Smallc]

There is far more than that to define us. There is more to this country than fear.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yet fear is the most powerful tool of governments. In government the manipulation of public opinion is the main focus, and to that end extravagant propaganda departments are a hallmark of the worst offenders.

[Smallc]

Now now, lets not bring the current government into this. Government uses far more than fear to get things done. I've seen them use hope, reason, and unfortunately, ideology. You're far too cynical.

[DrGreenthumb]

I agree, it's very sad. I get attacked more than most due to being a very vocal right winger. I just don't name call and personally attack people. I won't respond to people who do it to me, why give them the satisfaction. I have spirited arguments sure but I won't attack people personally. I try to get people to think correctly, which is my way of coarse

Yeah you never call people names. You wouldn't think of using the term urbanite as an insult to describe people with a more progressive value system than your own. I'm pretty sure I could find more examples of you not resorting to name calling by why waste my time?

[guyser]

Why do liberal supporters on this forum find it necessary to slam CPC supporters? It seems a common theme of Liberal supporters to call CPC supporters "anti-canadian" or "pro-american" or neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatics.

Well, whats wrong with that. They are un-Canadian , religious wing nuts, each and every one.***

I've also read posts with liberal supporters calling CPC supporters "uneducated" and "stupid."

Because it is true. Each and every one.***

Westerners are considered the "minority" and somehow don't hold "Canadian" ideas. I object to the idea that simply because I'm from BC and I voted Conservative that I am "un-canadian." We are not uneducated, we are not all religious fanatics, we are not all neo-conservative or old fashioned.

Dumb religious neo-cons all of you westerners , who loll around with a piece of straw hanging out of your mouths while saying "yup" all the time. Come on , its true, I watched Corner Gas a couple of times.***

We are here to debate ideas within the right to freedom of speech and we are all Canadians. I suggest we stop the childish name calling and finger pointing, it's a waste of energy and gets in the way of constructive debate on this forum.

Wait a sec....I see what you did there. Name calling and finger pointing, then you post the same. Sneaky bugger you are.

You should move to Toronto, everything happens in the centre of the universe.**

<<<*** of course all said in jest. No one should suscribe any side as being "X" , but to think only one side does it is wrong and shows your own bias.>>>

<<<**..that parts true..hehehehe>>>

[Keepitsimple]

I think you should take the blinders off. Both sides do the name calling and bashing. Just don't take part in it yourself. That and reporting people is about all you can do.

I've noted name calling on both sides....but I've always found the Left to be loaded with vitriole - sheer disdain for Conservatives.....calling Harper scary and terrifying. Calling Conservatives Ultra-right, Bush clones, religious zeolots, fascists, murderers (Afghanistan), a party that wants to take away your rights etc. Conservative name-calling usually centers around Fiberals or Lieberals or calling them socialists. I doubt you'll find much nastiness so far about Ignatieff - other than being priviledged, poster boy for entitlement, patrician, etc. In general, I find Conservatives to be more fact-based (the Dion torment was the Liberals'own doing - the man was obviously not a leader) and pragmatic whereas Liberals tend to be self-righteous - and the further to the Left, the more angry they seem to get.

[eyeball]

I've noted name calling on both sides....but I've always found the Right to be loaded with vitriole - sheer disdain for Progressives.....calling Ignatieff, Dion, Layton, May scary and terrifying. Calling Greens, NDP, Liberals and whatever isn't Conservative, Ultra-Left, Marx clones, atheist zeolots, fascists, murderers (9/11), a party that wants to take away your rights etc. Progressive name-calling usually centers around Cons or neo-cons or calling them capitalists. I doubt you'll find much nastiness so far about Ignatieff - other than being priviledged, poster boy for entitlement, patrician, etc. In general, I find Progressives to be more fact-based (the Day torment was the Conservative's own doing - the man was obviously not a leader) and pragmatic whereas Conservatives tend to be self-righteous - and the further to the Right, the more angry they seem to get.

[Smallc]

See

[fellowtraveller]

I've noted name calling on both sides....but I've always found the Right to be loaded with vitriole - sheer disdain for Progressives.....calling Ignatieff, Dion, Layton, May scary and terrifying. Calling Greens, NDP, Liberals and whatever isn't Conservative, Ultra-Left, Marx clones, atheist zeolots, fascists, murderers (9/11), a party that wants to take away your rights etc. Progressive name-calling usually centers around Cons or neo-cons or calling them capitalists. I doubt you'll find much nastiness so far about Ignatieff - other than being priviledged, poster boy for entitlement, patrician, etc. In general, I find Progressives to be more fact-based (the Day torment was the Conservative's own doing - the man was obviously not a leader) and pragmatic whereas Conservatives tend to be self-righteous - and the further to the Right, the more angry they seem to get.

I have enjoyed watching the left continually promote themselves as The Progressives.

It is actually a very smart thing to do, since it implies that their opponents are therefore The Regressives.

They took their semantic cue from the ProLife groups. If you aren't ProLife, you are automatcially ProDeath......

Anyway, hats off the the left for the Progressive campaign, it is a clever bit of misdirection..

Edited December 29, 2008 by fellowtraveller

[Topaz]

One only has to watch C-pacs Question Period and find who starts all the name calling and there it just drifts into the internet and the political forums. In other words, the PMO sets the tone of the government and the way people react.

[normanchateau]

It seems a common theme of Liberal supporters to call CPC supporters...neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatics.

I don't for one second think that all CPC supporters are neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatics. There's a range of views among CPC supporters.

Many who oppose CPC erroneously attribute these values to all CPC supporters simply because Stephen Harper appears to be a neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatic and CPC supporters seem to be in no hurry to dump Harper for a leader with more centrist values.

[Mr.Canada]

I don't for one second think that all CPC supporters are neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatics. There's a range of views among CPC supporters.

Many who oppose CPC erroneously attribute these values to all CPC supporters simply because Stephen Harper appears to be a neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatic and CPC supporters seem to be in no hurry to dump Harper for a leader with more centrist values.

Can anyone list some policies that Harper has brought into being while being a "neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatic"?

[normanchateau]

Can anyone list some policies that Harper has brought into being while being a "neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatic"?

It's rather difficult to achieve that when you have a minority government. PM Harper discovered that when he attempted unsuccessfully to strip away the right of lesbians to marry in December, 2006.

[Mr.Canada]

It's rather difficult to achieve that when you have a minority government. PM Harper discovered that when he attempted unsuccessfully to strip away the right of lesbians to marry in December, 2006.

Back to the 'hidden agenda' Norm? C'mon, I give you more credit then that.

[Boydfish]

Government uses far more than fear to get things done. I've seen them use hope, reason, and unfortunately, ideology.

I'd suggest that where they have suggested things like hope, reason and ideology, they are far too often simply addendums to the principle of fear of the other.

As well, if you note what I said, it is our only common feature. There are individual nuances of the features you suggested and others as well, but at the end of the day, the only thing that binds the provinces from coast to coast is and has always been fear. We didn't confederate and stay confederated because of shared identity, we did so to protect ourselves from being annexed from the south.

In the most basic terms, we only banded together because our fear of the US was slightly greater than our fear of the others. You don't have to go any further than the original Charlottetown conference to see the fear that each province had of the others, writ large. The Canadians weren't even invited and the big fear of the other colonies was only barely surpassed by their fear of the US. Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and PEI were more afraid of being socially and politically dominated by the Canadians than anything else.

Nor is this "policy of fear" a simple quaint notion from the distant past. The entire French movement of "maitre chez nous" was driven by what most would agree is a fear on the part of the French that there is some grand plot to subjugate and convert the French to English in Quebec. It would probably disappoint the French to discover that the vast majority of people outside of Quebec simply do not care about what language they speak or do not speak in their homes or work. The validity of that fear isn't relevant to the point at hand, but by creating the idea that the French were both opressed and in danger, a very successful political movement arose.

Not that rationality has ever been required in creating these fears, but the left was very successful in it's on-going election strategies about Harper and the "hidden agenda" of the "Christian zealots". The fact that there was little evidence or that the successive Liberal leaders Chretien and Martin were both hardcore Catholic zealots as well wasn't an issue, but merely the fear that they operated with. The common factor in any political platform, both incumbent and candidate, tends to be of the "Look at the other guy! Be afraid!" variety.

We are often challenged to "Define Canadian" by literature and our own woeful cries. We often thrash around efforts to define that, but all are easily rejected when viewed in the harsh light of reality. We're not "Bi-anything"; French is a local custom in parts of Quebec and New Brunswick that has little relevant application outside of those areas. We're not a "Nation of Peacekeepers", ask a couple of natives elders about that idea. Any idea that our "Human Rights Values of the Charter" are equally laughable when you examine the implications of s.1(I have numerous criticisms of it for another time, but suffice to say, due to this clause, it actually indicates there are times where it could be acceptable for a government to torture to achieve it's own ends).

Case examples of fear being our only defining feature also abound at every provincial level in all of our histories, so it's not just the federal government that operates on this principle. Fear binds us and defines us. Nothing else.

[eyeball]

I have enjoyed watching the left continually promote themselves as The Progressives.

It is actually a very smart thing to do, since it implies that their opponents are therefore The Regressives.

They took their semantic cue from the ProLife groups. If you aren't ProLife, you are automatcially ProDeath......

Anyway, hats off the the left for the Progressive campaign, it is a clever bit of misdirection..

To bad the Conservatives weren't clever enough to hang onto it eh?

[Barts]

Can anyone list some policies that Harper has brought into being while being a "neo-conservative religious right-wing fanatic"?

The Conservative policies on climate change.