Religious Right in Canada

[Oleg Bach]

How come they have a religious right but no religious left?

[guyser]

How come they have a religious right but no religious left?

Rastafari mon.....pass the duchie on the left hand side.

Show me a religion that encompasses...

Abortion

drinking

fornicatin' w the neighbours girl/wife/daughter/dog/teenage son

swearing

and NOT having to get up at an ingodly hour on Sunday

...when you find it, let us all know

[M.Dancer]

Rastafari mon.....pass the duchie on the left hand side.

Show me a religion that encompasses...

Abortion

drinking

fornicatin' w the neighbours girl/wife/daughter/dog/teenage son

swearing

and NOT having to get up at an ingodly hour on Sunday

...when you find it, let us all know

I think western buddhism might fit that bill....

[ToadBrother]

How come they have a religious right but no religious left?

There is, or at least was. There aren't too many vocal religious folk in the NDP nowadays, but in the era of Tommy Douglas a number of socialists, including Douglas himself, were both quite vocal left-wingers and made no attempt to hide their religious beliefs.

[guyser]

I think western buddhism might fit that bill....

...will google give me the closest western buddhist temple?

[M.Dancer]

...will google give me the closest western buddhist temple?

as long as richard gere is in the parameter.....

[guyser]

as long as richard gere is in the parameter.....

Cool, now I found one when I put in Gere.

Western Buddhism temple, Jarvis St, free Gerbils before 11AM......I gots to get there early.

[WIP]

There is, or at least was. There aren't too many vocal religious folk in the NDP nowadays, but in the era of Tommy Douglas a number of socialists, including Douglas himself, were both quite vocal left-wingers and made no attempt to hide their religious beliefs.

Evangelical Christianity - what we consider today to be the base of the Religious Right, used to be very left wing and anti-big business until after WWII, when all forms of socialism became entangled with communism. Up till the Depression, the most prominent radio evangelists were castigating the rich, and at least claiming to speak on behalf of the poor and downtrodden.

There may have been a shift towards the blessed are the rich sentiment expressed by today's TV evangelists anyway, when what's often referred to as the "Prosperity Gospel" started to take hold -- which preaches that wealth is a blessing from God, rather than the ill-gotten gains of greedy men in league with the ruler of this world - the Devil.

[WIP]

First Post here after finally finding a Canadian forum on political topics.

How very entertaining!!! I have just spent the better part of 3 hours reading all 59 pages of diatribe and have a few comments.

First off. Mr. Canada.... My Dearest Sister Shirley from my blessed girls Catholic School would certainly be calling you into her office for a chat on Catholic Charity and a lesson on how we are to treat others.

I don't think you'll be hearing back from him. It appears that Mr. bombast has left the building.

MY Roman Catholic Church taught me tolerance, kindness and forgiveness of all, empathy, understanding, and encouraged us to help anyone in need regardless of whether they were sinners or not, without judgement or condemnation. What a shame those beautiful lessons have been slowly changing to lessons of intolerance, judgement, and hate. What a shame the Catholic Church has slowly been driving those of us who were raised in a different more tolerant Church that did not teach fire and brimstone religion to leave the Church. I do miss the Church but will not return. The Church of today is not what it was, it is filled with even more hyprocrisy, and intolerance all in the name of the POPE, not Jesus. What a shame that those wonderful priests I grew up with have mostly left the Church.

I am hearing much the same thing nowadays. It seems that the Vatican wants a more conservative, doctrinaire church, even at the cost of shrinking further by losing liberal and moderate members. My wife hardly goes to Mass anymore because the sermons are getting more strident in their condemnations of Catholics that are divorced, are in mixed marriages, and using unauthorized methods of birth control -- not to mention all of the abortion sermons.

Looking forward to delving into the rest of these threads tonight and tomorrow.....so far these are much more thought out than the typical nonsense I see on the CBC/CTV and newpaper websites.....

I hope you still feel like sticking around awhile, even if it's too late to do battle with C.

[normanchateau]

How come they have a religious right but no religious left?

Here's a list of Christian leftists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_left

Current NDP MP Bill Siksay probably can be described as a Christian leftist.

[ToadBrother]

I don't think you'll be hearing back from him. It appears that Mr. bombast has left the building.

Possibly his wife/girlfriend read the kind of crap he was posting and said "Oh really..."

I am hearing much the same thing nowadays. It seems that the Vatican wants a more conservative, doctrinaire church, even at the cost of shrinking further by losing liberal and moderate members. My wife hardly goes to Mass anymore because the sermons are getting more strident in their condemnations of Catholics that are divorced, are in mixed marriages, and using unauthorized methods of birth control -- not to mention all of the abortion sermons.

I hope you still feel like sticking around awhile, even if it's too late to do battle with C.

The Church has been heading steadily right-ward ever since JPII became Pope, it's just that unlike Benedict XVI, JPII was a charismatic man who had a way of disarming even the most ardent opponent. Benedict XVI is a conservative scholar, and, to be honest, a pretty poor leader with some pretty poor advisors.

JPII's anti-Communism was so extreme that he basically betrayed the Latin American Church, where priests who were supporting more socialist-leaning politicians and activists because those were the only people who gave a damn about the impoverished people of those countries, were basically given orders to get out of politics. At the same time, JPII was flying the Church's flag in unison with Reagan and Thatcher in the war to topple the USSR. Yet he made it fly, even his opponents in the Church simply could not resist the man, though the damage to the Church in Latin America is pretty evident in the successes that Protestant churches are having down there.

In a way, I do understand the Church's tact. The Vatican only have to look at the how the Anglican Communion is coming apart at the seams to see how liberalizing the Church could lead to another severe schism. That's why, for the foreseeable future, the Cardinals will continue to elect very old conservatives, to maintain the delicate balance, but to assure that no one whose got a good fifteen or twenty years can sit on the Throne of Peter and thus muck things up irreparably.

[WIP]

The Church has been heading steadily right-ward ever since JPII became Pope, it's just that unlike Benedict XVI, JPII was a charismatic man who had a way of disarming even the most ardent opponent. Benedict XVI is a conservative scholar, and, to be honest, a pretty poor leader with some pretty poor advisors.

Yes, John Paul was smoothy at the PR game. Since Cardinal Ratzinger was in charge of doctrine at the time, it seems obvious that they were kindred spirits when it came to ideology.

In a way, I do understand the Church's tact. The Vatican only have to look at the how the Anglican Communion is coming apart at the seams to see how liberalizing the Church could lead to another severe schism. That's why, for the foreseeable future, the Cardinals will continue to elect very old conservatives, to maintain the delicate balance, but to assure that no one whose got a good fifteen or twenty years can sit on the Throne of Peter and thus muck things up irreparably.

No doubt they have a dilemma on their hands. But the reason why the liberalization of the Anglican and other protestant churches has weakened them is because the parishioners have witnessed a steady retreat from a position of absolute certainty to one of equivocation and compromise, and then they start wondering if the church dogma has anything of value, or it will all be eventually revised.

They wouldn't have had this problem is they had began from a more modest position of metaphysical knowledge. The Unitarian/Universalist churches are thriving, even though they have no absolute creed that members have to accept. Organized religions are usually a combination of metaphysical doctrines and moral codes, and the U/U's decided along time ago to unify around moral principles rather than doctrinal beliefs, so they did not have to go through the internal turmoil that the Anglicans have, when they started ordaining women and recognizing same-sex partnerships.

But the Catholic Church has too many claims of special knowledge and a special relationship with the creator of the Universe to allow this sort of liberalization. So, I think that they fear the loss of credibility by liberalizing, more than they fear losing members by abandoning reforms and clinging to tradition.

[Progressive Tory]

Here's a list of Christian leftists:

Current NDP MP Bill Siksay probably can be described as a Christian leftist.

Thanks for the link. I had bought into the Religous Right's intolerant rants and justification for war, so decided I could no longer be Christian, since my views were the exact opposite.

"The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important. Adhering to the standard of "turning the other cheek", which they believe supersedes the Old Testament law of "an eye for an eye", the Christian Left often hearkens towards pacifism in opposition to policies advancing militarism."

I now have a title. I am from the 'Christian Left' and support scientific proof of evolution, as God-given talent and know that George Bush and his ilk will spend eternity in hell.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I now have a title. I am from the 'Christian Left' and support scientific proof of evolution, as God-given talent and know that George Bush and his ilk will spend eternity in hell.

Either way, another fine import from the United States. Enjoy the title royalty free.

[Oleg Bach]

Either way, another fine import from the United States. Enjoy the title royalty free.

Are you up here branding my cows again buster! No git......................it's sunday - take a walk..that's where I am going...things are looking up...and keep exporting what you have to us - as long as it's in good faith - and we will send you back the same - In fact I am going to give to you what I gave you last Christmas - just bigger and better...deal? Keep it coming bro - delightful as usual - you are a fine representative - just hope our guys are reading your stuff - I should get out of the way and let you get back to work - I divert you from your purpose - Think of me as the kid your mother did not want you hanging around with..

[bush_cheney2004]

.....I divert you from your purpose - Think of me as the kid your mother did not want you hanging around with..

It's all good...please keep up the stream of consciousness on our secret sub-channel. It's fascinating to explore the impact of "American culture" on Canadians!

[Oleg Bach]

It's all good...please keep up the stream of consciousness on our secret sub-channel. It's fascinating to explore the impact of "American culture" on Canadians!

What culture? The stream of consciousness is going to quench your thirst - once that is done, it will be my turn to drink..Very clever of you to figure out that I am the prime minister and you are the president - don't tell anyone - someone has to keep these folks from eating each other alive.. Maybe I am the guy that talks over the fence - the one who only makes his eyes visable...B C - this sub channel is going to take a strol on Queen and oogle the hot babes..then go home and paint and figure out where to dry my socks - good health and spirit to you and family - and remember - If no one loves America, I will...you remind me of an almost re-habilitable hooker with a great heart...but - those with a record tend not to change...but some people do change as do some nations - love to all bro - and thanks for the respect and affection - there is hope...over and out - sub-channel is now about to submerge into the real world..thanks again.

[Canadian Blue]

Thanks for the link. I had bought into the Religous Right's intolerant rants and justification for war, so decided I could no longer be Christian, since my views were the exact opposite.

"The Christian Left holds that social justice, renunciation of power, humility, forgiveness, and private observation of prayer (as opposed to publicly mandated prayer), are mandated by the Gospel (Matthew 6:5-6). The Bible contains accounts of Jesus repeatedly advocating for the poor and outcast over the wealthy, powerful, and religious. The Christian Left maintains that such a stance is relevant and important. Adhering to the standard of "turning the other cheek", which they believe supersedes the Old Testament law of "an eye for an eye", the Christian Left often hearkens towards pacifism in opposition to policies advancing militarism."

I now have a title. I am from the 'Christian Left' and support scientific proof of evolution, as God-given talent and know that George Bush and his ilk will spend eternity in hell.

If you're from the Christian Left can you please stop calling yourself a conservative. You're embarassing those of us who actually care about liberty, tradition, the rule of law, and limited government.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Canadian Blue

[Oleg Bach]

If you're from the Christian Left can you please stop calling yourself a conservative. You're embarassing those of us who actually care about liberty, tradition, the rule of law, and limited government.

Hear hear - Just like the Christ the founder of individual atonomy as we know it stood up and said - as the rightful king of Judea and the Jews ---- Rome (the empiracle state) is not my master - my home is mine - my children are mine - the money is ours to be used as needed. This man put his life on the line because the rights of the real individual are paramount. He also stated that he did not come to abolish the law but to make sure that the rule of law was followed and every stroke of the law fulfilled. Government was to be servants of the people. AND it was freedom and the holding dear of the past and our traditions that are wealth. He was a rebel - not some fundamentalist suck that voted for Bush and gave into the powers of Rome. Yes he would turn his cheek once - and maybe twice - but the third time he would break your nose - Christianity was not a doctrine of submission to slavery and evil - it was a movement of resistance to evil..and was pro-life in everyway.

[guyser]

. You're embarassing those of us who actually care about liberty, tradition, the rule of law, and limited government.

Liberty? Rule of Law?Limited Govt? = Conservative?

[Canadian Blue]

Liberty? Rule of Law?Limited Govt? = Conservative?

The C in conservative isn't capitalized for a reason.

http://www.conservative-resources.com/libe...nservative.html

Edited March 9, 2009 by Canadian Blue

[Oleg Bach]

The C in conservative isn't capitalized for a reason.

http://www.conservative-resources.com/libe...nservative.html

Lets get this right. C liberals are actually the less dominant conservatives?...Natural law is only real law. Progressive law must be laws that you make up as you go along in order to ensure the survival of the weak...so that's liberalism....so liberals will attack natuarl law and create un-natural law such as same sex marriage which is the granting of domestic rights for those to weak and unable to breed - and the bonus is that they get to insult the estabished instituion of marriage - oh I see how it works.

[Canadian Blue]

Lets get this right. C liberals are actually the less dominant conservatives?...Natural law is only real law. Progressive law must be laws that you make up as you go along in order to ensure the survival of the weak...so that's liberalism....so liberals will attack natuarl law and create un-natural law such as same sex marriage which is the granting of domestic rights for those to weak and unable to breed - and the bonus is that they get to insult the estabished instituion of marriage - oh I see how it works.

I can't speak for that, I strongly believe that the state has no business regulating our relationships. As long as it's consensual the bureaucrats should not be concerned.

[Oleg Bach]

It is either the state that forces their religion on children - or the parents force their religion on children. It becomes a question of how owns the kids - the state or the parents? I would say I can force upon my children - (call it force but it is a culture) anything that I want...and those that don't like that are actually vicariously attempting to own my bio-child...(go have your own and mind your own buisness) In old Christian conservatism, that conserves the traditional family, the husbands body is property of the wife and the wife's body is property of the husband...Some will say that human beings can not treat each other as property..But unless you lay claim - intruders and interlopers will appear and they collectively will lay claim to your child wife or husband - then it is an animalistic sexual and political free for all...... It's a question of property rights...I own what is produced from my body - whether I be a male of a female-- If I do not own it than the state owns it free to abort it or ulitize it - which would make me a farm animal - sorry - but I'm not...I own my body and all that is produced by it and from it.

[neutralguy]

Wow - religious threads always manage to entice strong debate. I'm not religious, at all - agnostic, but here is what I would say.

The way I see it, I do believe special interests and greed has taken over politics. But Liberals and Conservatives alike are to blame. And that is why I feel that the people we view as "religious" are sometimes nothing more than conservatives who are worried at the pace we are going. They aren't comfortable with it.

If you look at the last century or so, in the west, we have been a society of development, greed, and special interests. I mean the things we have developed in the last century, we didn't do as much in ten centuries prior. The concentration on attaining wealth and getting ahead, we've never seen before.

I see much of this economic mess (and in my opinion there is even some social unrest) as a result of stepping away from our faith and instead becoming a society that just asks "can i develop this", "is this possible", "can this make me more wealthier" and just doing it. We aren't thinking about the bigger picture, that religion does usually ask us. I think we are at a point, where we have made so many moves, so fast, that we don't even know how our economy actually works. We don't even know what most of the drugs produced do to us. We don't know the severity of the environmental problem. We don't know a lot because we haven't really thought about the bigger picture for a long long time.

I think to myself too, how can the "Conservative" party, a party that is supposedly for the conservation of things, have such policies that go so strongly against the natural things in our world (the environment) Aren't they infavour of keeping things natural? Special interests?

Not picking on them persay but it just seems nobody is actually doing anything about it. The citizens are the pawns in this game because I do believe the Conservative base itself actually stands for the many things I talked about.