ReeferMadness Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 RM, am I wrong or does this also imply that the US needs to stay in Iraq until all civil unrest is gone ? That's a good question. I'm not a lawyer but the closest I could come to an answer was this excerpt from an Amnesty International document. The international legal regime on belligerent occupation takes effect as soon as the armed forces of a foreign power have secured effective control over a territory that is not its own. It ends when the occupying forces have relinquished their control over that territory. My interpretation is that the answer to your question is 'no' but as I said, I'm not a lawyer. The full text of the document can be found here: Amnesty International The coalition has followed up an illegal war by failing in its obligations under international law. Specifically, 5 years after the invasion, basic services are still lacking. Further, the wholesale changes to the Iraqi economic law and privatization of state assets were completely illegal. According to this 2008 Amnesty International assessment, 4.2 million people are still displaced, in a country with less population than ours. The same report cites continuing gross human rights abuses on all sides, including the coalition. It isn't enough for people to say "we were trying to help" or "at least Saddam isn't there". If you're going to invade another country, you have obligations, both moral and legal, to ensure this doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 ...It isn't enough for people to say "we were trying to help" or "at least Saddam isn't there". If you're going to invade another country, you have obligations, both moral and legal, to ensure this doesn't happen. Not really...AI certainly isn't an objective observer and has no legal standing whatsoever. Iraqis are free to bring suit if they wish, in a court that has jurisdiction if they can find one. In the end....AI puffery is just feel good rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 It's not even that complicated.....shall we indict PM Chretien as a murderer and war criminal for Canada's bombing of Serbia? Is he a "hypocrite" for ignoring the UN and Parliament?If anyone wishes to point the finger at Bush, they will find him last in a long line before him. If you can make it stick, go ahead. The case against Bush is crystal clear, though. I would say there is also a very good case against Clinton for wiping out the pharmaceutical factory in Africa. Also, people should do some research on what gets bombed. Water treatment plants. Schools. Electrical generation facilities. Television stations. There was huge outrage over the twin towers being civilian targets but the wholesale destruction of civilian infrastructure is hardly worthy of comment as long as it happens to someone else. Chomsky once said "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.". That was about 20 years ago but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have changed his mind over Clinton or the 2 Bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Iraqis are free to bring suit if they wish, in a court that has jurisdiction if they can find one. Not a bad idea.... In a country as ligitous as the US, it just might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Chomsky once said "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.". That was about 20 years ago but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have changed his mind over Clinton or the 2 Bushes. Chomsky says a lot of things. Sometimes he even knows what he is talki9ng about. My favourite Chomsky quote is.... Colourless green ideas sleep furiously.Regarding the Nuremburg laws.... The Nuremberg Laws (German: Nürnberger Gesetze) of 1935 were laws passed in Nazi Germany. They used a pseudoscientific basis for racial discrimination against Jewish people. The laws classified people as German if all four of their grandparents were of "German blood" (white circles on the chart), while people were classified as Jews if they descended from three or four Jewish grandparents (black circles in top row right). A person with one or two Jewish grandparents was a Mischling, a crossbreed, of "mixed blood". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 ...Chomsky once said "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.". That was about 20 years ago but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have changed his mind over Clinton or the 2 Bushes. Of course...it's only the Americans...and why did Chomsky exclude pre-war "perps"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Of course...it's only the Americans...and why did Chomsky exclude pre-war "perps"? Never did I see three such happy souls as the old photo of Churchill - Stalin and Rosevelt...all of these guys were happily maintaining a status quo that continues to this day...war is buisness and adventure - You mentioned Clinton - I watched some old footage of him and his silly arrogant aggressive status seeking wife - genocide was taking place all over...and not a peep out them - it's nice to know the ruse has finally come apart a the seems - what goes up comes down - all power is conducted in secret - but not forever - it took 50 years for the general population to figure out that they were just getting used - A person that has a gold plated toilet that was purchased with blood money...and sleeps like a baby will pay the cosmic price for that obliviousness..and it will come in this life - there is justice...and there is natural law - justice always prevails...just takes a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Chomsky says a lot of things. Sometimes he even knows what he is talki9ng about. My favourite Chomsky quote is..... Regarding the Nuremburg laws.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws Chomsky is speaking of the laws that were created at Nuremburg to mete out the victor's justice, not the German laws to which you refer. I would think that most people of average or better intelligence could infer that from the context so it makes me wonder whether you're just baiting me. Here's a link: Chomsky - Nuremberg By violation of the Nuremberg laws I mean the same kind of crimes for which people were hanged in Nuremberg. And Nuremberg means Nuremberg and Tokyo. [Radhabinod Pal], and he dissented from the whole judgment, dissented from the whole thing. He wrote a very interesting and important dissent, seven hundred pages -- you can find it in the Harvard Law Library, that's where I found it, maybe somewhere else, and it's interesting reading. He goes through the trial record and shows, I think pretty convincingly, it was pretty farcical. He ends up by saying something like this: if there is any crime in the Pacific theater that compares with the crimes of the Nazis, for which they're being hanged at Nuremberg, it was the dropping of the two atom bombs. BTW, Chomsky isn't advocating hanging presidents, he's illustrating the brutal and hypocritical double-standards that exist in international politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Of course...it's only the Americans...and why did Chomsky exclude pre-war "perps"? The laws weren't there before WWII - I think Chomsky is trying to be fairer than the Allies who imposed the victors justice. Chomsky is American himself - why don't you ask him why "it's only the Americans". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) The laws weren't there before WWII - I think Chomsky is trying to be fairer than the Allies who imposed the victors justice. There are no such laws for the victors...just the usual feel good judgements about the defeated. Milosevic laughs in his grave. Chomsky is American himself - why don't you ask him why "it's only the Americans". Because I asked you....so familiar with "Americans" you be. Edited December 13, 2008 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Cuddle up and kiss and shut up - give it up my friend. Those days are gone. Your ability to retrive history is amazing and you are knowledgable...but it may be time to quit. The empire is in diaray - evolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Cuddle up and kiss and shut up - give it up my friend. Those days are gone. Your ability to retrive history is amazing and you are knowledgable...but it may be time to quit. The empire is in diaray - evolve. Spoken like a true satellite...but not the Sun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Bach Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 I could just smack you now! I am the sun - you are but a glob of circulating cosmic dust. Do you want me to make the White House Black one more time - 1812...don't forget it buddy. You are taking advantage of the ones that love you - we are subjects of the Queen and you are subjugated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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