Auto sector bailout

[Oleg Bach]

It's the usual stuff. Finally the whole machine motivated by the fuel of belief in fiat and digital currency just broke down...I wonder if the supposed super rich have an extended warranty on the system geared for failure? Poor poor rich folks who never gave a damn about me - now want me to send them money - My how the mighty have fallen.

[Huston]

It's the usual stuff. Finally the whole machine motivated by the fuel of belief in fiat and digital currency just broke down...I wonder if the supposed super rich have an extended warranty on the system geared for failure? Poor poor rich folks who never gave a damn about me - now want me to send them money - My how the mighty have fallen.

Well, you are obliged to decline.. unfortunately, you have put your power into the state. Oh poor you. The mighty have gotten even more powerful.

[bush_cheney2004]

It's the usual stuff. Finally the whole machine motivated by the fuel of belief in fiat and digital currency just broke down...I wonder if the supposed super rich have an extended warranty on the system geared for failure? Poor poor rich folks who never gave a damn about me - now want me to send them money - My how the mighty have fallen.

Then you are not really poor....because you still aspire not to be. The truly poor are already skilled with having less...and not whining about it.

[Huston]

This is part of the world economic collapse. It has as much to do with mega-corporate greed as it would a workers desire to have a fair wage and good benefits. We get punished because we have to compete against corrupt and uncaring countries, such as China where safety amd medical concerns of workers is just a byword. WE punish ourselves by allowing jobs to be shipped off to these countries with no strings attatched.

Corrupt countries like China... hmmm.. Canda and the U.S. are corrupt as well. Why did China live off American consumption. Oh yeah.. Walmart.. Zellers, you name it. Canada is just a big part of it as China.

[Oleg Bach]

Deals cut with China were made by our people. Our people were corrupt. They did not care if economic and social degradation took place in our domestic realm as long as OUR people prospered and their longing for unbridled power was satisfied. Corruption within a national family is like having a an ambitious little sister or big brother who is a real estate agent - who liquidates the family estate and takes off to Mexico to have a life in "paradise" - and justifys the robbery on the basis that the family is bad...and that human nature is base...and that they did what was right...believing your are right and having that belief fueled by greed is not right. And we do not punish the culprit because he or she is OUR culprit...we get taken advantage of because we are forgiving and actually love even our own corrupt...who will never in a million years admit they behaved in a crimminal manner.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And we do not punish the culprit because he or she is OUR culprit...we get taken advantage of because we are forgiving and actually love even our own corrupt...who will never in a million years admit they behaved in a crimminal manner.

What difference would it make if we did?

[Oleg Bach]

None! They are what they are - and we facilitate. It is either appeasement or war. War is not the wise option...survival is the only success - and the capacity to love and forgive is the only real pride.

[Oleg Bach]

Also we know who you are - so what do you expect - a spanking like a child? We forgive because we have class - and all the money in the world can not buy honour (honor) --- AMERICAN spelling for you..* We forgive you -----like the sister I mentioned - she may have ripped off the family and used us - but she is my sister - as you are my brother.

[whowhere]

Then you are not really poor....because you still aspire not to be. The truly poor are already skilled with having less...and not whining about it.

Huh?? Napoleon Hill - Think and grow rich there are more riches than just money There is the spiritual rich. Being skilled with having less and being happy/Ok is a bad thing?? Some call that prudent, thrifty, astute, all the virtues most with money know little about. The most valued treasure of Life is Knowledge and wisdom.

The truly poor is the "unskilled" ignorant jack #$S who sits on his laurels thinking he is so much better than everyone else because he happens to have a bigger bank balance and exploits and cheats people to earn his money.

As for your spin on the japanese automakers. All I am saying is Honda, Nissan, and Toyota already have the cars people need to today and are working on the cars for tommorrow without Government Money. GM and Chrsler want to take money to develop cars for today and tommorrow. Makes no sense.

Let them go bankrupt.

[Oleg Bach]

Poverty is when in a world where money is the lubricant of mobiltiy - that a person can not move about freely - that is poor! You can be well fed and have a high def TV - but if you can not go out the door because you can not gas up or afford a bus ticket - then you are nothing but a prisoner in a fancey cell. Freedom of mobility is wealth. Under our charter we are guarenteed the right to move about and hunt out our sustainance... If we get to the point were there is no moblity for the population, then we will all be poor...and small towns might come back into fashion - one you don't have to leave because you can't. As we bail out the rich they are free to leave - we are not.

[bush_cheney2004]

....As for your spin on the japanese automakers. All I am saying is Honda, Nissan, and Toyota already have the cars people need to today and are working on the cars for tommorrow without Government Money. GM and Chrsler want to take money to develop cars for today and tommorrow. Makes no sense.

The cars are really not that different.....GM and Toyota share a plant in Fremont California. The Japanese brought larger light trucks and SUVs to market after the Big Three for a reason. Vote union No!

The government has already given them money in the form of incentives and tax breaks to build the plants. Now they are just giving some more.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I'm curious what the members on this site think of the idea of bailing out GM,Ford and Chrysler.The coalition forces want immediate help for the auto sector,meaning cold,hard,CASH!

I wonder if it's wise to hand over money to them before seeing what Obama does first.Even he says they must come up with a credible plan first and foremost.Remember too that these are American based companies.Did you know that it's not umcommon for assembly line workers to earn over $100,000 a year,plus a host of other generous benefits?Do you think chapter 11 is the best option?This way,they could perhaps bring the unions a bit more down to earth.

Have any of you ever owned V6 GM cars with the premature head gasket problem?Ever driven an Alero or Cavalier?

Tell us where you stand and please indicate if you are on the left or right,lol.

I say let em die a natural death. Any company who pays a guy that kind of cake to snap a dashboard into place deserves to fail.

Ontario's entire manufacturing economy is built up around the concept of paying people way more than they're worth because unions create false price mechanisms.

What you end up with is a bloated unprofitable company and a bunch of ingrate blue collars who should get an education and enter the real world where wages are determined by the market.

Let 'em all go into bankrupcty, move their plants to mississippi or other "right to work" states and start over as lean mean profit machines.

No subsidizing failure!

Edited December 13, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

[Oleg Bach]

The cars are really not that different.....GM and Toyota share a plant in Fremont California. The Japanese brought larger light trucks and SUVs to market after the Big Three for a reason. Vote union No!

The government has already given them money in the form of incentives and tax breaks to build the plants. Now they are just giving some more.

A car is a car. The difficulty here is how do you deal with success once you have it. All the car manufacturers have had tremendous success. Habitualism might be the problem - maybe the job is done and it's time to move on--but America is used to the idea of always being successful. eg - success - now what?

[whowhere]

Poverty is when in a world where money is the lubricant of mobiltiy - that a person can not move about freely - that is poor! You can be well fed and have a high def TV - but if you can not go out the door because you can not gas up or afford a bus ticket - then you are nothing but a prisoner in a fancey cell. Freedom of mobility is wealth. Under our charter we are guarenteed the right to move about and hunt out our sustainance... If we get to the point were there is no moblity for the population, then we will all be poor...and small towns might come back into fashion - one you don't have to leave because you can't. As we bail out the rich they are free to leave - we are not.

For once I agree with what you say but you have to look at the real enemy => Government Unions, Bureacrats, the Banks, and other group who has bought the politicians. Canada is suppose to be a democracy where we elect politicians who will appoint people to cabinet who will direct government to serve you the voter Not happening because Canada is extemely corrupt with entrenched egotistical politicians and bureacrats. They are about making Canada serve them like they are royalty and the Canadian people are here to serve them. Canada is and has been operating like a communist country. In a communist Country people serve the government. In a democratic country, the government serves the people.

How is it that these politicians and bureacrats can get away with running Canada this way?? Oh, is it because Canada's political structure was designed that way to serve the Queen (which is similar to a communist political structure). Because the Queen is nowhere to be found Canada is being exploited by the Liberals and Conservatives alike.

To End the Corruption, Canadians need to wake up and write letters to buckingham palace to get the queen more in tune to how Canadians are beeing abused by the Politicians and bureacrats of Canada. The Queen has the power to veto all government actions especially if the actions are designed to benefit special interest groups.

[Donaill]

So it is a bad thing to pay a worker $25/hour but a good thing to pay an exec $500,000 and give hime stock options and a golden handshack if he screws up and has to "resign"?

[whowhere]

What you end up with is a bloated unprofitable company and a bunch of ingrate blue collars who should get an education and enter the real world where wages are determined by the market.

Yes, Let them fail. However, you are missing the fact the government bureacrats and political trash are conspiring against you by making you compete with the world for any job you apply for. Canada has a policy of bringing in 300 000 immigrants not including all the ones who come to Canada on a work permit because the employer claims they can't find the skillset from Canada's Job seekers.

Canada's real unemployment rate is really 15% to 20% with this kind of employment rate employers are free to repress the wages and treat you like garbage because they know they will find someone else with little effort and will be free to continue exploiting and cheating workers.. You can thank the Harper Government for this kind of work environment.

Sorry Pal, we don't have a fair market place where supply and demand rules the day. What we have is supply purposely sobotaged by the bureacrats, politicians, and employers to drive down wages and your quality of life.

[Oleg Bach]

Oh come on...If a GM executives are used to the good life - who are we to deny them a continuence of that wonderful life. Look at the way we glorify lottery winners - instead of giving 30 million dollars to 30 people - we give it all to one person..we love greed...it's our god. Greed gives hope to the masses. We can not let the icons of Mammon fall...what will we worship? Give the auto guys all they need...and let the workers continue to adore their superiours...."There goes Joe - he makes a katrillion bucks a year - what a guy - sure wish I was him" - why spoil the illusion - send them the money.

[Donaill]

"...There goes Joe - he makes a katrillion bucks a year - what a guy - sure wish I was him" - why spoil the illusion - send them the money.

Now that made the night for me, as far as forum reading..

Edited December 14, 2008 by Charles Anthony
fixed formatting in quotation

[ThatGuy]

Wow, I thought this thread would have been way bigger considering the CPC supporters should be outraged.

[Oleg Bach]

Wow, I thought this thread would have been way bigger considering the CPC supporters should be outraged.

I can handle being on the bottom of the social heap - the folks that have been the haves as compared to the have nots - will not be able to take the strains of change. It will caused them trama - send them the money - nothing sader than a rich person crying.....wait - I have never seen the super rich ever cry....maybe it will amuse me as much as I amused them when I wept...nawh - I couldn't do that - FREE MONEY FOR EVERYBODY - the poor need not apply.

[whowhere]

I just finished watching a documentary on the planet and what we humans are doing to it.

http://11thhouraction.com/seethefilm

I would have to say to you autoworkers and oil sand workers on behalf of the planet fak u and your highminded self serving employment. All can be said just like Big Tobacco your days of polluting peoples minds with your self rightous entitlement to work at the expense of the world's environment are numbered. You represent a dragon the world is eager to slay.

I can assure you I myself will not buy another American shitbox so please for the love the planet do not build any more of your shitboxes that are only going to sit on parking lots because millions of other people will also not be buying your shit.

WHY????

Because we already know as soon as we buy your gas guzzling shit boxes and begin driving we will be strangled by the Gas/Oil Companies with their greed. The Governments love it because they get all the Gas Taxes collected at the pump. But of course the bureacratic and political trash don't see that as a false economy because when people suffer life destruction because they are not able to freely move about when they want and this is only because of money - What can be done?? If the Oil/Gas companies steal all your money How are people suppose to pay their mortgages, buy food, go camping, skiing, essentially live the life they have?

But really, I know the mind of the corporation and those in the ranks. For the most part they do not have a conscious and do not see people as people but a means to an end. Who knows with the bailing out of wall street maybe this will finally be the end of the all encompassing evil corporation whose only goal is to exploit wealth at all costs. Maybe this will mean those in the corporate ranks will be held to account for their actions with jail. Maybe the politicians will begin filtering the government trash who look the other way while corporations abuse and betray the public.

Just maybe we are turning a corner to a new era. Really, I doubt this, so we all have to do as state by moses "eye for eye, tooth for a tooth." If the Governments, Politicians, Corporations, and those in the corporate ranks deny and deprive you the necessities to live a happy life you must unleash the unhappiness back upon these pricks. What that involves will be your discretion. A good source for Inspiration is

http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index...;vid=9#booklist

Forget the New, Focus on the old!!

[Oleg Bach]

Punishment and retribution are justified. There will be no reward for the oppressed by getting rid of the oppressors. It may be wise to let them down easy. Smashing the hell out of the elite is not an option. They know they have screwed up. It's better to allow a point of escape. If they do not take it and continue to dominate in a fashion that is destructive the populace as well as themselves then stern measures must be taken. All have been rendered poor by this collapse in the economic system. Take advantage of this great natural equality that has arisen. Spare the bastards - let them learn that we are of better stuff...the illusion is over..and great ambition has peaked and failed.............lets just fix the problem - without savage retribution. As my dad said " there are others" - and all must survive. Revenge may be just but it slows down the process of recovery.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Spare not a one of the bastards. That group should include those elected representatives that would vote in support of giving tax dollars to corporate efforts.

[Oleg Bach]

Spare not a one of the bastards. That group should include those elected representatives that would vote in support of giving tax dollars to corporate efforts.

Did you hear about the add that they ran...It sounded like a bad mafia guy confessing to a priest...."Father for I have sinned - I wacked Vinny" Priest: " Your sins are forgiven my son - do not wack Vinny again." There was something typically modern and current about this letter of regret and shame sent by the car companies in the form of a full page ad ----------------NO ONE SIGNED IT....Why is that a trend these days - even lawyers don't sign things anymore - I would say that the letter or contract or what ever is not legal unless there is a signator....and nobody wants to take personal responsibity - the cloak up and cover up in corporatism.

[madmax]

I just felt the need to highlight Japanese Gas Guzzlers and Profits.

Here is Honda.

A grim and frowning Honda President Takeo Fukui has told investors and the media that lower earnings are in store for the long-envied Japanese automaker due to declining demand from American consumers as well as dollar-yen fluctuations. Despite consumer flight from such Honda gas guzzlers as the Pilot SUV and Ridgeline—among the worst mileage cars on American roads, the company is still betting on oil-burning cars. Hence, it refuses to expand production of its Honda Civic GX which uses pure compressed natural gas (CNG) or its much-heralded hydrogen-fueled Clarity. Honda has severely restricted production of both vehicles to vastly below the market demand

THere is always the myth that the Japanese make more fuel efficient vehicles or that they are light years ahead, when they are no further ahead then any other manufacturer. It is a matter of choice, for what they build.