Dion to step down, reports say

[Canadian Blue]

The Liberals should accelerate their leadership convention to mid January and get it over with instead of drawing it out. My feeling is that the LPC will go with Ignatieff, and Ignatieff would likely do away with the coalition as he seems to be more on the right side of the Liberals.

Bob Rae on the other hand is a different case. I would actually put forward the idea that he thinks he can unite both the Liberals and the New Democrats to create a united left. While that's debatable, it seems to be the case right now as he's the most ardent defender of the idea of a coalition.

As well the Liberals should be put too much support into the idea that the coalition will hold till May. With three separate parties basically holding the levers of government, and each with a different ideological base, it would only take one to finally pullout and the whole government to come crashing down.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Canadian Blue

[BC_chick]

I'm sure a lot of Liberal supporters may be critical of the way I, and other LPC supporters, have expressed our views of the man. I understand how crucial party unity is in keeping the electorate convinced of our team's capabilities.

However, knowing when to cut our losses is more important IMO. It doesn't make sense to allow the party to go utter ruins just for the sake of keeping up appearances.

[jdobbin]

What's wrong with Monday? Why wait till christmas? I can't stand looking at that his face. Are they going to gag him until he resigns?

I have no idea. I personally would have stepped down after the election given the lead up to it and the lack of support from the party before, during and after.

I just don't know who gives him advice.

[Smallc]

I just don't know who gives him advice.

Kyoto?

[Argus]

Either way, the conservatives will not be happy about this. I personally believe that a new Liberal leader will only strengthen the coalition's resolve.

You're kidding, right? This is what passes for Viking humour? The reason Dion will be stepping down is because a new temporary leader will find it easier to step back from the coallition. After all, it was Dion who signed it, not - Mccallum, or whomever.

[Argus]

If you thought phase 1 was bad, wait till phase 2 kicks in!!! The freight train has left the station and doesn't make any unscheduled stops!! Attack ads for everybody!!! The Liberals should just fold up their tent and go home. An election would be a disaster for the left wing in Canada, the silent majority dragon has been awakened!!!

You seriously need less caffeine in your life.

[jdobbin]

The Liberals should accelerate their leadership convention to mid January and get it over with instead of drawing it out. My feeling is that the LPC will go with Ignatieff, and Ignatieff would likely do away with the coalition as he seems to be more on the right side of the Liberals.

Ignatieff might end the coalition but I expect Harper to reintroduce poison into bills and howl hyperpartisan taunts. I still see Harper trying to call an election in the next six months on his own.

An interim leader aside from Dion would help from now to January but I just know that the Liberals can make the decision on leadership before January. I'm sure next week they will go over their options.

[Argus]

Ignatieff might end the coalition but I expect Harper to reintroduce poison into bills and howl hyperpartisan taunts. I still see Harper trying to call an election in the next six months on his own.

After all this, I don't know if he can get away with it. But seriously, Jdobbin, if Chretien had been in a minority position, and looked at poll numbers that showed him deep into a comfortable majority - how would he have behaved? Or Trudeau? Or Martin? Don't act like Harper is evil if he behaves in the same way as your own leaders.

[jdobbin]

After all this, I don't know if he can get away with it. But seriously, Jdobbin, if Chretien had been in a minority position, and looked at poll numbers that showed him deep into a comfortable majority - how would he have behaved? Or Trudeau? Or Martin? Don't act like Harper is evil if he behaves in the same way as your own leaders.

I fully expect a Liberal leader would have called an election when it suited them. It is why I have said that term limits are meaningless. I have been arguing that since 2006 and people have told me that it was impossible that Harper would call an election before the term was over.

He can get away with and will get away with it by blaming the Liberals for whatever reason he can think of. People here still believe there was no Canadian flags at the Dion signing so I expect they will believe Harper when he says he had no choice.

[Slim MacSquinty]

I would be very cautious to try and take advantage of this new waive of public support, it went up very fast and could well go down very fast as I suspect the electorate is restless and angry. It would be most wise to spend some time figuring out why the voters feel the way they do and conduct yourself in a manner that supports that thinking. That is the best way to ensure current support stays with you.

[Pat Coghlan]

Can we also agree then that forming a coalition government would not be setting a prescedent? With that in mind why should the conservatives be granted another election when the previous two have resulted in minority governments? By the way this 'good chunk' is not representative of 63% of those who voted. Riddle me this, what if an election is called and yet another conservative minority government is the result, which would probably be the outcome, would it then be OK so to speak,for the Liberals and NDP to form a coalition with the support of the BQ?

The issue is not that it is a coalition, but whether Canadians trust the coalition with their wallets and social policy.

If Canada is a daughter going on a date, I'd feel much more comfortable if it was with someone who perhaps isn't perfect, but could be relied on to drive safely, be home on time etc. than a "coalition" of punks in hoodies who want to just "drive around"...and who are asking if I can spare a C-note.

Dion, Layton and Duceppe are the hoodies in this case.

[capricorn]

John Manley urges the Liberal Party to dump Dion before Christmas.

Canadians have every right to expect that the politicians they elected so recently would be entirely focused on the issues threatening our economic security and well-being. Instead, they have been subjected to a sordid display of arrogance, hyperbole and incompetence that can only make voters wish a pox on all their houses.

---

The Liberal Party, with its worst result in percentage of vote in its long and proud history, was also given a message on election night. Namely, that since losing power, the party, its leader and its caucus had failed to regain the confidence of the people. In fact, that confidence had further eroded since January of 2006.

The notion that the public would accept Stéphane Dion as prime minister, after having resoundingly rejected that possibility a few weeks earlier, was delusional at best. Mr. Dion had seemed to accept responsibility for the defeat (although somewhat reluctantly), and should have left his post immediately.

Confronted by a political crisis that was not of his making, Mr. Dion became an obstacle to his party, and to the opposition, in dealing with it. His weakness probably fuelled the Conservative hubris that led to this fiasco in the first place. Furthermore, in agreeing to the terms of the coalition with the NDP and the Bloc, Mr. Dion bound his successor to a controversial arrangement without even consulting any of the candidates to succeed him in the process, leaving them no option but to endorse it or break with him as party leader.

---

Money that would otherwise be spent on a rerun of the last leadership campaign should, instead, be raised for the party's coffers. The new leader should quickly move to modernize the party structure and to prepare an election program, just in case it is needed. But the first task should be to work collaboratively with all other parties to restore the confidence of Canadians in their Parliament.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../specialComment

He has some pretty strong advice for the Conservatives as well.

Bravo, Mr. Manley and thank you for being so candid.

[blueblood]

After all this, I don't know if he can get away with it. But seriously, Jdobbin, if Chretien had been in a minority position, and looked at poll numbers that showed him deep into a comfortable majority - how would he have behaved? Or Trudeau? Or Martin? Don't act like Harper is evil if he behaves in the same way as your own leaders.

If Harper got away with calling the last one, he'll get away with this one. They didn't spend all that money on those attack ads for nothing. harper has his big issue, and has people on side. All he has to do is keep spinning the anti coalition rhetoric. he'll het his election. It helps when Rae, Dion, and Duceppe are voting down the budget no matter what.

[Keepitsimple]

People here still believe there was no Canadian flags at the Dion signing so I expect they will believe Harper when he says he had no choice.

The original quote that I heard from Conservatives was that they didn't want flags to be seen at the signing - and there were no flags behind them. The flags were off to the side in a manner that makes it clear that Duceppe and the Bloc did not want to be seen with the Canadian flag prominently shown on television.

[Smallc]

The original quote that I heard from Conservatives was that they didn't want flags to be seen at the signing - and there were no flags behind them. The flags were off to the side in a manner that makes it clear that Duceppe and the Bloc did not want to be seen with the Canadian flag prominently shown on television.

And yet most pictures were from angles that included the flags....and they were in a room with a giant picture of the fathers of Confederation.

[blueblood]

And yet most pictures were from angles that included the flags....and they were in a room with a giant picture of the fathers of Confederation.

The optics are horrible when there is a shot of the three of them at a table signing something with no flags present. There is when the camera zooms out though.

[Smallc]

The optics are horrible when there is a shot of the three of them at a table signing something with no flags present. There is when the camera zooms out though.

Every media report showed the flags and every one talked about the giant picture of the Fathers of Confederation being in the room. There was no optics problem with that part of things.

[blueblood]

Every media report showed the flags and every one talked about the giant picture of the Fathers of Confederation being in the room. There was no optics problem with that part of things.

I didn't see any when they were signing the paper. I did when the camera zooms out or pans around after. For the quick newsbyte that doesn't look good and Harper is all over it.

[betsy]

Every media report showed the flags and every one talked about the giant picture of the Fathers of Confederation being in the room. There was no optics problem with that part of things.

The media may have deliberately chosen what picture they want to put in their papers. Angles of cameras in a crowded room would of course have some showing the Flag on the side.

But the point is why was no flag on the center behind the three amigos? Aren't they supposed to be representing Canada as a united party?

You'd think the Liberals and NDP would understand the controversy about getting propped up by the a separatist party and would try to allay concern.

The Liberals and the NDP were not thinking (which does not bode well for us all if they will be so incompetent enough to overlook this detail).

From this to Dion's video to a very generalized way of stating their economic plan (which was nothing more than a re-hash of their election campaign promises, nothing detailed)...this Coalition is ill-prepared.

[Keepitsimple]

The media may have deliberately chosen what picture they want to put in their papers. Angles of cameras in a crowded room would of course have some showing the Flag on the side.

But the point is why was no flag on the center behind the three amigos? Aren't they supposed to be representing Canada as a united party?

You'd think the Liberals and NDP would understand the controversy about getting propped up by the a separatist party and would try to allay concern.

The Liberals and the NDP were not thinking (which does not bode well for us all if they will be so incompetent enough to overlook this detail).

From this to Dion's video to a very generalized way of stating their economic plan (which was nothing more than a re-hash of their election campaign promises, nothing detailed)...this Coalition is ill-prepared.

I agree but I don't think it was incompetence...I'm pretty sure it would have been one of the Bloc's requests/demands.....but then again, maybe it WAS just incompetence. Let's just chalk it up to both.

[jdobbin]

The optics are horrible when there is a shot of the three of them at a table signing something with no flags present. There is when the camera zooms out though.

That's funny because when they show the signing take place on CTV and Global, you can see the flag clearly behind Layton and the flag on the localized shot from Global clearly showed the flag behind Duceppe. Party supporters are the only ones continuing to say there was no flags even though Harper no longer mentions it. Obviously, he doesn't want to be presented with the evidence to the contrary. Oh, to have a Tim Russert here in Canada who could ask those embarrassing questions such as "You really don't see a flag?"

This is clearly misdirection on the part of Tories who wanted to make this a national unity issue. One wonder what why they didn't think national unity wasn't an issue when they had their signed deal with the Bloc in 2000 and 2004

Edited December 6, 2008 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

The original quote that I heard from Conservatives was that they didn't want flags to be seen at the signing - and there were no flags behind them. The flags were off to the side in a manner that makes it clear that Duceppe and the Bloc did not want to be seen with the Canadian flag prominently shown on television.

Harper said no flags present. That is the quote we've heard. The media didn't go out of their way to get those shots in. They were present in the National Post the day after. You think they went to great trouble to put a Canadian flag in the background of the signing?

[Smallc]

Oh, to have a Tim Russert here in Canada who could ask those embarrassing questions such as "You really don't see a flag?"

Don Newman has been asking hard questions of all of them this week. As soon as they twist the truth, he takes them to task.

[Topaz]

ON CTV, Old Duffy was saying that Dion will probably step down next Wednesday because the some Libs are upset with his tape,etc. One could see that Old Duffy was really broke up about the problems the Libs are having with a smile on his face. I wish Duffy could remain neutral with his personal opinions and do his job. So if Dion does go now, who will fill in until a new leader is chosen? Perhaps they shouldn't wait until May and choose now. I'm sure most of them have made their minds up, just like the Lib supporters.

[madmax]

ON CTV, Old Duffy was saying that Dion will probably step down next Wednesday because the some Libs are upset with his tape,etc.

Any Liberals not upset with his tape, need to resign immediately with Dion. Why Wednesday. These jokers wanted Harper voted out on a Monday. Monday is good enough to be rid of Dion.

One could see that Old Duffy was really broke up about the problems the Libs are having with a smile on his face. I wish Duffy could remain neutral with his personal opinions and do his job. So if Dion does go now, who will fill in until a new leader is chosen? Perhaps they shouldn't wait until May and choose now. I'm sure most of them have made their minds up, just like the Lib supporters.

I can't see how any professional newsman with decades upon decades couldn't suppress their amazement of the incompetence of the Liberal party and Dion. News media were ringing their hands with glee when they heard Mr. Bean is going to lead the charge. Everyone knew that the train that left the station, was ready for a WRECK.!!!

Media needs a story. The best side for the media is a good story. And a good story is always replaced by a better story.

Had Dion not went on TV the media would have had a good story. Harpers poor performance on network TV. But then a GREAT STORY CAME IN.....or DIDN'T COME IN. and when it did,

The story is.... Dion down, Harper off hook.

You can't spin stuff like this...