Coalition Destructing Already

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Nice corporate terrorism. They are now free. Free being slaves to another state, run by corporations.

Which offers far better "poverty" prospects than being slaves to liberal guilt.

[Huston]

How is people starving in Africa Canada's fault?????...........we advanced they didn't sad but true, most of Africa is run by warlords and corrupt political dictators too busy fighting each other to be bothered feeding their own people!

People are starving in Africa because their crops have been destroyed because of corporate agriculture that was brought in to pay off loans they got from the world bank. Canada supports these global institutions.

[Huston]

Which offers far better "poverty" prospects than being slaves to liberal guilt.

Oh yes, poverty of chemical, biological and nuclear terrorism of corporate hegemony. Much better than the non-existent chemical, biological, and nuclear terrorism of Saddam.

[blueblood]

People are starving in Africa because their crops have been destroyed because of corporate agriculture that was brought in to pay off loans they got from the world bank. Canada supports these global institutions.

Warning toaster comment above...

[-VMG-]

Huston you're fighting a lost cause... either they are "trolls" or they are outright ignorant... don't even bother debating anything.

[Huston]

Huston you're fighting a lost cause... either they are "trolls" or they are outright ignorant... don't even bother debating anything.

But we have to educate them on the real terrorists, like the U.S. or well Anglo-Saxon banking system. These peple have commiting crimes, and they are being bailed out.. I don't know about the Canadian banks.. it is hard to find such coverage, unlike the UK and U.S.. instead, Canadians would rather keep their jobs, because they don't own anything, like food stocks, so that they and fight to fix the system and get their freedom back from expensive state intervention. Instead, we have a red herring in Parliament instead. This is why I have never like the state. If it fails, a lot of people suffer. Anything big is bad. It carries too much risk. People's health is at stake, but they would rather focus on another red herring, Islamic Terrorism. I fell for that red herring. I don;t know Stephan Dion's background, but he has been attack constantly. Who knows, he would probably be a real person for the people, not Harper, not Layton, or Rae or Ignatieff. Oh, there was bad video and poor timing... so? But I guess it does have to do with party funding and not "stimulus" packages. I am not for any stimulus package, I prefer a complete restructuring of the economy, that puts power back into individuals and out of the hands of the corporate hand of the state. And they wonder why only 60% of voters voted.

[speaker]

Restructuring the economy has been a constant theme over the centuries, pretty much consistently failing over time, as the generations become complacent and allow the insecure people of the world to satisfy their cravings for power.

I think you're right though, restructuring is the next goal we'll have to take on,,,, again,,, but the big question as I see it is how to minimize the pressure on the Harpers of the world so that they don't feel so compelled to control everything.

[Huston]

Restructuring the economy has been a constant theme over the centuries, pretty much consistently failing over time, as the generations become complacent and allow the insecure people of the world to satisfy their cravings for power.

I think you're right though, restructuring is the next goal we'll have to take on,,,, again,,, but the big question as I see it is how to minimize the pressure on the Harpers of the world so that they don't feel so compelled to control everything.

That is because the economy is controlled by those in power, not individuals. Right now with the technology, it is totally possible to get rid of large state funded corporations and go small scale. It will be cheaper, it will show individual responsibility (that fights against complacency). more people can farm for a living. People like to eat, and if they love their food, they will help grow it. I don't understand how the power of Monsanto on almost eveything would not result in massive deaths like state run communal farms of the Soviet Union. If their product fails, the world starves, or is terribly unhealthy.

[blueblood]

That is because the economy is controlled by those in power, not individuals. Right now with the technology, it is totally possible to get rid of large state funded corporations and go small scale. It will be cheaper, it will show individual responsibility (that fights against complacency). more people can farm for a living. People like to eat, and if they love their food, they will help grow it. I don't understand how the power of Monsanto on almost eveything would not result in massive deaths like state run communal farms of the Soviet Union. If their product fails, the world starves, or is terribly unhealthy.

A lot of people don't want to farm for a living, that's why the big guys are going in and buying up everything. Then there are those idiots from Europe who are manipulating the Ag market with their enormous subsidies. Bigger farms, yes are inefficient, you would end up getting what would happen in the auto industry. Keeping grain prices somewhat high provides incentive for smaller producers to stay on. A lot of the big ag biz corporations do not want to start up something so risky or there would be a lot of producers bought out already.

Don't blame ag biz corporations, they're just making money. However there are some where the competition bureau should investigate.

Blame the Europeans for their ludicrous subsidies that they pay out and they're ridiculous importing restrictions.

[speaker]

That is because the economy is controlled by those in power, not individuals. Right now with the technology, it is totally possible to get rid of large state funded corporations and go small scale. It will be cheaper, it will show individual responsibility (that fights against complacency). more people can farm for a living. People like to eat, and if they love their food, they will help grow it. I don't understand how the power of Monsanto on almost eveything would not result in massive deaths like state run communal farms of the Soviet Union. If their product fails, the world starves, or is terribly unhealthy.

Those in power are individuals. Whether they are state funded or private corporations the same applies. The individuals who feel it is necessary for their well-being to corner the market on resources or capital are, I think, very worried people. People who can't be content husbanding their share of the planet but must control more, more, and more are really dangerous people.

[wulf42]

Huston you're fighting a lost cause... either they are "trolls" or they are outright ignorant... don't even bother debating anything.

lol......typical Liberal, when losing an argument as usual... resort to name calling...............no wonder nobody likes a Liberal!

[-VMG-]

lol......typical Liberal, when losing an argument as usual... resort to name calling...............no wonder nobody likes a Liberal!

I can't even take your posts literally you are so out to lunch... you're an antagonist... attempting to goad us into getting into a big argument when you don't care.

[bush_cheney2004]

But we have to educate them on the real terrorists, like the U.S. or well Anglo-Saxon banking system. These peple have commiting crimes, and they are being bailed out.. I don't know about the Canadian banks.. it is hard to find such coverage, unlike the UK and U.S.. instead, Canadians would rather keep their jobs, because they don't own anything, like food stocks, so that they and fight to fix the system and get their freedom back from expensive state intervention.....

Oh my...Canadians are just hapless victims even as they rape and pillage the earth, invade other countries, strip mine the planet, and sell uranium death. The devil made us do it....LOL!

[speaker]

Ah the ultimate put down, conversation stopper, whatever. "You ain't no better than the Americans" Man that's cruel. Don't you know that all Canadians are mature beyond that kind of behaviour?

Surely every Canadian knows. EH?

[bush_cheney2004]

Ah the ultimate put down, conversation stopper, whatever. "You ain't no better than the Americans" Man that's cruel. Don't you know that all Canadians are mature beyond that kind of behaviour?

Surely every Canadian knows. EH?

Surely some think so....willfully ignorant of the "dark side".

[speaker]

I don't like to think that it's willful, but ignorant I have to agree with, but to be honest with you we are subject to many of the same kind of idealogical bs that Americans are and I blame it on that.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't like to think that it's willful, but ignorant I have to agree with, but to be honest with you we are subject to many of the same kind of idealogical bs that Americans are and I blame it on that.

See.....that's what I mean....shifting "blame" to somebody or something else. We are what we "eat".

[wulf42]

I can't even take your posts literally you are so out to lunch... you're an antagonist... attempting to goad us into getting into a big argument when you don't care.

Liberals have screwed this country with scandals and corruption......your naive and uniformed Liberal beliefs have no place in this country in a time of war.......i am not goading you into anything...you and that other tool Huston blame the U.S. and Canada as terrorists and think disarming of our Armed Forces as a good thing.......talk about out to lunch!!! Fortunately Harper is in power and thanks to Dion he will likely get a Majority Government, so obviously most Canadians do not agree with you!

[speaker]

Bushcheney wrote " See.....that's what I mean....shifting "blame" to somebody or something else. We are what we "eat"."

Well, Blame is one of those things that gets set. The current situation in Canada is a prime example. Harper has such a distorted view of reality that you have to wonder where it comes from. Did he get beat up at recess when they were talking about right wing economic theory? Did he decide that's how he's going to get even with the world?

So many important questions. But how will history judge him if we don't get to the bottom of this?

[White Doors]

yea, but my point is still valid... there will always be crime when there is inequality. Even with government regulation there is likely to be criminal activity.

I have a solution though... if we decriminalize everything... that means there will be no crime... Success!

Crime with illegal guns has gone up quite dramatically in larger urban areas in Canada lately.

I can presume that you advocate lifting sanctions on hand-gun ownership?

[Rue]

Even prominent Liberals have finally admitted defeat........many didn t want this at all, they know how much it is going to hurt an already reeling Liberal party! What was Dion thinking......lol!

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2...ral-mp-jim.html

I think what you see is that the vast majority of the Liberal caucus is behind Ignatieff not Rae who inspired the coalition. They will forcefully appoint Ignatieff this week rendering Rae and Dion an after thought. The coalition will be done like dinner. Ignatieff will save face and have Harper throw in some tid bits for the car industry and Ignatieff will pull the Liberals out.

There is no way Ignatieff is going to run for an election having served in the same government as the NDP or indirectly with the Bloc. Its a no brainer.

The coalition was a little scheme hatched up by the Chretien-Dion-Rae-Kennedy liberals who know they are done like dinner in the new Ignatieff run Liberals. Ignatieff of course is the inheritor of the Paul Martinites. We still see Chretien and Martin supporters after all this time playing games with the Liberals in a free for all but it looks like it is coming to an end.

As much as the Liberals are internally divided and looked exactly like that with a free for all of spokespersons trying to run the party I find what Harper did odious. He deliberately pushed an unpopular decisive bill intended to cause conflict and dissension.

Its classic Guy Giardino the Mike Harris advisor now in charge of Harper and thinking he could use the same strategy Harris used to get his majority governments in Ontario-divide and conquer by creating scapegoat targets.

Only now instead of teachers, nurses, people on welfare, Harper has "seperatists (i.e., ungrateful Quebecers who did not support him), Liberals, NDP'ers, unions, Atlantic Canadians, urban dwellers, Torontonians, etc.

Harper is a nasty sob. Ignatieff will call on the Martin Liberals or blue Liberals the majority of Liberals who want a moderate government that seeks a balance between economic and social needs to keep himself in power and if Harper does not watch it, Ignatieff will pull away from the Tories the Red Tories, the moderate wing of the Tories that have been repressed and basically under the tyranny of the Social Credit-Reform rump of the Tories who have kept them under control and shut up.

Its clear Harper has been able to create an internal structure in the Tory party to keep the moderate Joe Clark-Peter McKay wing shut up but they are watching and want him gone just as much Liberals are fed up with this Rae-Dionne-NDP circus.

The middle moderates in both the Tories and Liberals have emerged. It will force Harper to back down, Ignatieff to back down and some semblance of cooling off where we will see a minority Tory government rule a minimum of a year.

Whether Harper self destructs or learns from this fiasco to sit down and try be a statesman and a leader and emulate William Davis not Mike Harris remains to be seen. as long as Guy Giardino is around with Flaherty this kind of nasty confrontationist divide and conquer mentality will fan Harper's already incredibly immature thin skin.

[Rue]

as for accusing the Liberals of being corupt and scandal ridden duh. Now look at the Tories Wolf. You better start looking. If you think you are dealing with moral virgins look again. Take a look at today's disclosures at how much money they are spending on "consulting" firms.

Nothing has changed. Its the same patronage b.s. being handed out. Don't kid yourself. Harper is repeating what Chretien did and his Ministers seem to have forgotten the Reform platform and have no problems wasting money on needless travel and junkets.

Every party that comes into power vows it will be different and then engages in the same corupt patronage b.s.

[capricorn]

Harper has such a distorted view of reality that you have to wonder where it comes from. Did he get beat up at recess when they were talking about right wing economic theory?

Not likely.

Harper became involved in politics as a member of his high school's Young Liberals Club.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Harpe...ical_beginnings

Did he decide that's how he's going to get even with the world?

Why would he get even with the world? What has the world ever done to him?

So many important questions. But how will history judge him if we don't get to the bottom of this?

Lots of books have been written about Harper and I'm sure many are in the works. I'm much more concerned about what's happening now than history's judgment of the man.

[wulf42]

Whether Harper self destructs or learns from this fiasco to sit down and try be a statesman and a leader and emulate William Davis not Mike Harris remains to be seen. as long as Guy Giardino is around with Flaherty this kind of nasty confrontationist divide and conquer mentality will fan Harper's already incredibly immature thin skin.

I believe Harper will learn from this error and with any luck Harper will work with the new Liberal leader and back away from this foolish Coalition idea, these politicians need to start getting down to business and drop the power struggle agenda's.

[August1991]

Whether Harper self destructs or learns from this fiasco to sit down and try be a statesman and a leader and emulate William Davis not Mike Harris remains to be seen. as long as Guy Giardino is around with Flaherty this kind of nasty confrontationist divide and conquer mentality will fan Harper's already incredibly immature thin skin.

Rue, William Davis was Premier of Ontario and Ontario, despite your personal perspective on things, is not Canada.

If memory serves, William Davis was the Premier in a long Progressive Conservative dynasty in Ontario who had a minority government.

As to your comment about Harper's spending on consultants, you got that information from The Toronto Star. Now, do you think the Toronto Star would announce anything else except the Tories spent more on consultants than the Liberals? I'm not accusing the Toronto Star of lying, I'm just offering the opinion that there are many ways to define "consultant". I suspect that The Toronto Star defines it as anyone hired on a "temporary contract" to work for the government.

I believe Harper will learn from this error....

What error?

The Liberals are in complete disarray, Layton looks foolish and Quebec is about to elect a federalist majority government. Some polls put the federal Conservatives at over 50%.

If this is an error, then Harper can only hope to make more such errors.

Edited December 8, 2008 by August1991