Liberal Conservative Coalition ?

[johhny]

would never happen Ignatieff would look like a Harpercrite unless he was thinking of leadership for the Tory

[blueblood]

I think the Tories would call the election right then and there to take advantage of the divide. They would blame the Liberals and say they couldn't govern with the knife at their throats.

If Harper was smart, he might try negotiation. It doesn't seem to be in his DNA.

The GG wouldn't let an election go if Harper has confidence in the house. If those 10-15 Liberals stayed home, he technically has confidence.

The only person harper could negotiate with is Ignatieff. This however would be a big gamble for Ignatieff and he would have lots of explaining to do.

[blueblood]

At this juncture, it is more likely that about 10 or 15 Liberals will simply not show up to vote on Monday and the confidence motion will pass.

IOW, they will reject the direction that Dion (and Rae) have taken the Liberal Party, realizing that a coalition giving cabinet seats to the NDP and veto power to the Bloc makes the Liberals toxic for many average, rank-and-file Liberal voters.

It is going to require complex spin to explain to these Liberal voters how this coalition is the right thing to do.

The typical argument against the Bloc (and the NDP) is that they can never accomplish anything because they can never form a government. Well, Dion has just explicitly removed that argument by giving both direct access to power.

-----

ETA: I just saw this post above:I agree but I don't think Ignatieff would do this to screw Rae or Leblanc. Ignatieff can see the long term consequences of this coalition - aftrer all, he may have to live with them.

He would have some explaining to do after supporting it in the first place.

[gc1765]

One possibility that hasn't been considered:

Harper asking the Liberals to join a coalition aimed at keeping the BQ out of the governing process and the NDP out of the coalition.

The deal would place a certain amount of Liberals in cabinet and would last two years. Certain hotspot issues would be left for another day while the economy took precedence.

I think that would be the best option...but it doesn't look like either party is willing to compromise.

[jdobbin]

At this juncture, it is more likely that about 10 or 15 Liberals will simply not show up to vote on Monday and the confidence motion will pass.

Harper would then have his majority and he could place the same poison pills in the economic statement and tell the Opposition to lump it. Or he could call an election and say that he no longer can govern under these circumstances even if the coalition breaks up.

Either way, I see Harper looking to cut the throats of all involved.

Or do you think he is going to make nice when he has never done so before?

IOW, they will reject the direction that Dion (and Rae) have taken the Liberal Party, realizing that a coalition giving cabinet seats to the NDP and veto power to the Bloc makes the Liberals toxic for many average, rank-and-file Liberal voters.

It is going to require complex spin to explain to these Liberal voters how this coalition is the right thing to do.

If these Liberals do go over, the Liberals will like see an election or the confidence motions till the cows comes home.

ETA: I just saw this post above:I agree but I don't think Ignatieff would do this to screw Rae or Leblanc. Ignatieff can see the long term consequences of this coalition - aftrer all, he may have to live with them.

Ignatieff might be done as leader if he is the one that undoes the deal. And the Liberals will face an election with Dion at the helm anyway. What's the upside of not voting for the motion? Nothing that I can think of.

[jdobbin]

He would have some explaining to do after supporting it in the first place.

He'll be done as leader most likely. It is why I find it hard to believe that he would stick it to the party on Monday. Harper would call the election that day if the Liberals backed away.

[jdobbin]

I think that would be the best option...but it doesn't look like either party is willing to compromise.

The offer has to come from the Tories.

[William Ashley]

The offer has to come from the Tories.

Bwahahah, is that a 18 liberal 6 conservative member cabinet?

They are so done. When will all the conservatives get that. (Yes some conservatives are smarter than others)

Edited December 3, 2008 by William Ashley

[Vancouver King]

One possibility that hasn't been considered:

Harper asking the Liberals to join a coalition aimed at keeping the BQ out of the governing process and the NDP out of the coalition.

The deal would place a certain amount of Liberals in cabinet and would last two years. Certain hotspot issues would be left for another day while the economy took precedence.

Such an arrangement would only be appropriate in times of war when the nation's existence hangs in the balance. Tough as it's going to get, the economic downturn simply doesn't measure up.

Did you see these two protagonists go at it in the Commons today? Such animosity can't be neutralized. Really, Dobbin this is the craziest idea you have ever floated.

[kimmy]

One possibility that hasn't been considered:

Harper asking the Liberals to join a coalition aimed at keeping the BQ out of the governing process and the NDP out of the coalition.

The deal would place a certain amount of Liberals in cabinet and would last two years. Certain hotspot issues would be left for another day while the economy took precedence.

You know, Dobbins, you do amaze me sometimes. This is the first solution to this situation I've heard that I actually find appealing.

There is a considerable chunk of the Liberal Party, the Ignatieff portion of it in all likelyhood, that probably feels a lot closer to the CPC than it does to the fruitopian coalition.

I do wonder if the Liberal leadership contenders could back out of the coalition, taking enough supporters with them to scuttle the plan. They could have Dion, Layton, and Duceppe wear the blame for the coalition scheme, arriving at an agreement with the Conservatives that would undoubtedly be more acceptable to most Canadians, and look like heroes in the process.

If only.

-k

[blueblood]

He'll be done as leader most likely. It is why I find it hard to believe that he would stick it to the party on Monday. Harper would call the election that day if the Liberals backed away.

The GG wouldn't let an election occur so soon after this previous one if Harper had confidence in the house.

[WIP]

Liberal Conservative Coalition

It's a non-starter. The Conservatives had a free hand to govern with a minority. The Liberals would have waited till they had chosen a new leader, before they tried to seriously challenge the government. But a weakened opposition wasn't good enough for Stephen Harper! He had to use this opportunity to destroy the Liberal Party and guarantee himself a permanent Conservative majority for the foreseeable future.

Harper has shown has shown the same totalitarian objective that the Republicans demonstrated south of the border, when he decided it was more important to try to destroy the opposition than to deal with the snowballing economic crisis. The only way a coalition between the Liberals and Conservatives would be possible is if Stephen Harper is forced to resign.

[jdobbin]

Did you see these two protagonists go at it in the Commons today? Such animosity can't be neutralized. Really, Dobbin this is the craziest idea you have ever floated.

As I said, the offer would have to come from the Tories. It would only appeal to Liberals if they felt great discomfort with the arrangement they have now.

Harper just does't have it in him to make a deal. It is all or nothing. Bit of a gambit because if the coalition holds steady in the next days or weeks, defeat will come should the Governor General decide to ask the Opposition to fom the government.

I wonder if other Tories might consider this. At the moment, it appears they are backing Harper's campaign.

Edited December 3, 2008 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

The GG wouldn't let an election occur so soon after this previous one if Harper had confidence in the house.

It might if Harper fired the Governor General like some Conservative commentators have suggested and went to the Queen directly.

[ToadBrother]

It might if Harper fired the Governor General like some Conservative commentators have suggested and went to the Queen directly.

Ah good, let's take a constitutional grey area and blow it up into a full blown constitutional crisis.

[Alta4ever]

This is an interesting possibility. If there was ever a time for Ignatieff to score points with the electorate, this is it.

The opposition may have been pissed off at the Conservatives for the poison pill(s} slipped into the economic update but I believe the electorate is more pissed off at the opposition than they realize.

IMO Canadians are repulsed by what's happening on the Hill and are hoping someone will jump in to bring stability to Parliament.

The question is whether Ignatieff's rumoured diplomatic intervention would hurt his chances in the leadership race. He may in fact be looking at the wider picture and wish to quash further harm to the Liberal Party.

If it happens history will be repeating itself. If Anyone remebers the Lloyd George led minority government which had more support from the Torys then it did from the liberals. This is what paved the way of Winston crossin gback to the conservatives, and the end of the liberal party in Britian.

[blueblood]

Ah good, let's take a constitutional grey area and blow it up into a full blown constitutional crisis.

Why not?

[blueblood]

It might if Harper fired the Governor General like some Conservative commentators have suggested and went to the Queen directly.

If Harper has confidence of the house, he has no reason to go to the queen.

[jdobbin]

This is the first solution to this situation I've heard that I actually find appealing.

Don't know If Harper would ever accept it.

There is a considerable chunk of the Liberal Party, the Ignatieff portion of it in all likelyhood, that probably feels a lot closer to the CPC than it does to the fruitopian coalition.

Ignatieff won't torpedo the deal on his own. He may agree with some parts of the Tory economic platform, he doesn't seem close to them on a lot of the social issues. In other words, he is unlikely to destoy his own party if he wants to be its leader.

I do wonder if the Liberal leadership contenders could back out of the coalition, taking enough supporters with them to scuttle the plan. They could have Dion, Layton, and Duceppe wear the blame for the coalition scheme, arriving at an agreement with the Conservatives that would undoubtedly be more acceptable to most Canadians, and look like heroes in the process.

The Liberals have to be offered something if they are to change course.

If the intention according to people like Gerry Nichols is to kill the Liberal party, Harper will continue on as he is doing. It might not keep him in office but it is all or nothing now for him it seems.

[Argus]

One possibility that hasn't been considered:

Harper asking the Liberals to join a coalition aimed at keeping the BQ out of the governing process and the NDP out of the coalition.

The deal would place a certain amount of Liberals in cabinet and would last two years. Certain hotspot issues would be left for another day while the economy took precedence.

Now that is something I had not thought about. I don't know, though. Harper loves power, and doesn't like to cooperate - especially with Liberals. I, for one, would love to see it, though. It would bring some sanity to the house and probably calm down the ever worsening acrimony and bile we've seen there over the last half dozen years or so.

[jdobbin]

If Harper has confidence of the house, he has no reason to go to the queen.

He survives one vote. I still still think he will seek a mandate to get out from behind the possible threat. It is how he thinks. As he sees it, as long as he has a minority, he needs the election and someone to blame to be able to get the majority and resume destroying the Liberal party.

[Argus]

Doubt it, he wants to be prime minister.

If Iggy took over the tories he WOULD be prime minister. And I don't see an obvious heir apparent to Harper anywhere in the wings.

[jdobbin]

Why not?

You might not like the answer of the Queen. What after that? Fire her and call in th miliatry?

[Argus]

Well, I mean, if Iggy controls 13 seats worth of Liberals, they could float the Tories through a budget.

From what I understand he controls about half the party.

[Argus]

I think the Tories would call the election right then and there to take advantage of the divide. They would blame the Liberals and say they couldn't govern with the knife at their throats.

If Harper was smart, he might try negotiation. It doesn't seem to be in his DNA.

Nor Dion's, but Harper is pushed to the wall, and from what I hear his control over his party is slipping.