Canada's Impending Constitutional Crisis

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

You are a dishonest person, that much has become clear in the last few days.

I expected the personal attacks. You're just itching to say more too, I'll bet.

In 2004, the NDP, CPC and Bloc tried to force an election.

Harper wanted the Governor General to hand the reins of power to him sans election.

Smallc · December 2, 2008

Yes, this is the Liberal Party site, but its still valid.

http://www.liberal.ca/story_15511_e.aspx

blueblood · December 2, 2008

Sure, why not have her arrested when she gets off the plane and call for the military to support the Tories.

What's wrong with going straight to the monarch? It's perfectly legal. Like I say if your not getting good service from an employee, go straight to the manager.

The rest of your post is suggesting your listening to the preverbial toaster.

Smallc · December 2, 2008

What's wrong with going straight to the monarch? It's perfectly legal. Like I say if your not getting good service from an employee, go straight to the manager.
The rest of your post is suggesting your listening to the preverbial toaster.

I doubt the Queen would interfere in Canadian politics.

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

What's wrong with going straight to the monarch? It's perfectly legal. Like I say if your not getting good service from an employee, go straight to the manager.

Is it? The only representative that Harper can go to is the Governor General. Show me the cite that she can bypassed to go the Queen. Now that would be a constitutional crisis.

The rest of your post is suggesting your listening to the preverbial toaster.

I was mocking all of the Tory supporters who have been saying they are planning to take up arms to fight. Are you one of them?

CanadianBacon · December 2, 2008

What crisis?

This is how the system is suppose to work.

People better get use to it because with 4 parties....this was bound to happen sooner or later.

All this jibber jabber about undemocratic is BS

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

Yes, this is the Liberal Party site, but its still valid.

Some people won't believe it no matter how many times they see it. How many reports from CTV, the National Post, the Globe need to be posted to show that in 2004, Harper had signed support from the Bloc to have power turned over to him if they all brought the government down.

blueblood · December 2, 2008

Is it? The only representative that Harper can go to is the Governor General. Show me the cite that she can bypassed to go the Queen. Now that would be a constitutional crisis.
I was mocking all of the Tory supporters who have been saying they are planning to take up arms to fight. Are you one of them?

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a constitutional crisis. Everything that has happened so far is unprecedented, going to the Queen IMO is a realistic option considering Jean's credentials. You and I both know Harper will pull out every tool out of the box, one tool might be a call to buckingham palace.

All my posts considering this are "sit back and watch the car wreck attitude", I know Harper will try and prorogue parliament, release attack ads, and put pressure on the GG to go to an election after his throne speech/budget is defeated. I know the tories will do very well in the next election, they have plenty of ammunition stockpiled. What me worry?

dpwozney · December 2, 2008

There has been no constitutional or legal crisis ...

Members of the coalition expressed allegiance to Elizabeth the Second.

Elizabeth the Second is not Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, contrary to the requirement in this Fifth Schedule, which states:

“Oath of Allegiance

I A.B. do swear, That I will be faithful and bear true Allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria.

Note. The Name of the King or Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for the Time being is to be substituted from Time to Time, with proper Terms of Reference thereto.”.

The provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick expressed their desire to be federally united into one Dominion under the Crown of the “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”, not the Crown of the “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”, according to the British North America Act, 1867.

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

I'm not saying it wouldn't be a constitutional crisis. Everything that has happened so far is unprecedented, going to the Queen IMO is a realistic option considering Jean's credentials. You and I both know Harper will pull out every tool out of the box, one tool might be a call to buckingham palace.

Where in our Constitution does it say he can do that? Do you have a cite?

All my posts considering this are "sit back and watch the car wreck attitude", I know Harper will try and prorogue parliament, release attack ads, and put pressure on the GG to go to an election after his throne speech/budget is defeated.

It won't be a budget no matter how Tories phrase it. C-1 is an authority bill. Harper may try to put actual dollar figures to his Throne Speech but what does it matter? It will show nothing except where he was going to spend into deficit.

I know the tories will do very well in the next election, they have plenty of ammunition stockpiled. What me worry?

You do know that, huh? Just like all the Tories here that expected a Tory victory in the last election? Hell, I expected a huge majority. However, Harper never ceases to amaze in how he falls short.

Jack Weber · December 2, 2008

Ironically, questioning the established system isn't very conservative at all.

It is stridently fascist,however...

M.Dancer · December 2, 2008

It is stridently fascist,however...

Oh please....

I guess then the Green Party is fascist cause they question the electoral system......or is this another one of those brainless insults we have become used to frompeople with little grey matter to offer?

Okay, i'll play along...please provide a citation showing that questioning established systems is stridently fascist.....

Off with you now, run along....come back when you have what you need.

blueblood · December 2, 2008

Where in our Constitution does it say he can do that? Do you have a cite?
It won't be a budget no matter how Tories phrase it. C-1 is an authority bill. Harper may try to put actual dollar figures to his Throne Speech but what does it matter? It will show nothing except where he was going to spend into deficit.

You do know that, huh? Just like all the Tories here that expected a Tory victory in the last election? Hell, I expected a huge majority. However, Harper never ceases to amaze in how he falls short.

Hence the constitutional crisis. What's to stop him going straight to the queen if Jean doesn't play ball? We are subjects of the Queen aren't we?

It'll be less than the 30 billion proposed by the coalition.

I'm pretty sure the tories will do well next time around. Canadians are livid. Lets find out how livid they are, bring on the election!!!

CanadianBacon · December 2, 2008

Its only a constitutional crisis if the GG refuses the coalition and sends us back to another election which results in another minority and so on. A nice vicious circle.

Jack Weber · December 2, 2008

Oh please....
I guess then the Green Party is fascist cause they question the electoral system......or is this another one of those brainless insults we have become used to frompeople with little grey matter to offer?

Okay, i'll play along...please provide a citation showing that questioning established systems is stridently fascist.....

Off with you now, run along....come back when you have what you need.

Read Mein Kampf and pay particular attention to Herr Schicklegruber's disgust of democracy.Then read about how the NAZI's usrped every democratic institution in Germany at the time to get their desired result.

It's a typical ploy of the political right...Bully people who might upset the right's apple cart...

You're clearly a Mensa member...You should have absolutely no touble understanding that,should'nt you? :rolleyes:

M.Dancer · December 2, 2008

Read Mein Kampf and pay particular attention to Herr Schicklegruber's disgust of democracy.Then read about how the NAZI's usrped every democratic institution in Germany at the time to get their desired result.
It's a typical ploy of the political right...Bully people who might upset the right's apple cart...

You're clearly a Mensa member...You should have absolutely no touble understanding that,should'nt you?

So you are unable to find a citation?

No surprises there....

So tell me about the stridently fascist Green Party.....

M.Dancer · December 2, 2008

Then read about how the NAZI's usrped every democratic institution in Germany at the time to get their desired result.

You mean when they formed a coalition to take power?

So are coalitions stridently fascist then?

Godwins law now in effect.....Dodds corollary invoked

When debating a particular subject, if a comparison or implied connection is drawn between the opponent's argument and Hitler and the Nazi Party, the maker of that statement is automatically discredited and the debate is automatically lost by the person or group who referenced the connection to Hitler or the Nazis."

Edited December 2, 2008 by M.Dancer

g_bambino · December 2, 2008

What's to stop him going straight to the queen if Jean doesn't play ball?

Nothing is there to stop him; it's his job to be her prime minister.

jdobbin · December 2, 2008

Hence the constitutional crisis. What's to stop him going straight to the queen if Jean doesn't play ball? We are subjects of the Queen aren't we?

If Harper went to the Queen and went over the head of the Governor General (which I don't think is legally possible), his popularity will plummet because it will show how desperate he is to keep power.

It'll be less than the 30 billion proposed by the coalition.

That number wasn't proposed by them as has been dismissed today.

I'm pretty sure the tories will do well next time around. Canadians are livid. Lets find out how livid they are, bring on the election!!!

Cite for Canadians are furious at the coalition?

g_bambino · December 2, 2008

If Harper went to the Queen and went over the head of the Governor General (which I don't think is legally possible)...

Of course it's legally possible. Whether or not the Queen would follow whatever advice he tendered to her is another matter, though.

M.Dancer · December 3, 2008

Doesn't the PM have to appeal to the Queen to dismiss the GG?

Not that he will or go over her head.

I for one am content with whatever decision she will make.

Smallc · December 3, 2008

I for one am content with whatever decision she will make.

So am I.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Smallc

blueblood · December 3, 2008

If Harper went to the Queen and went over the head of the Governor General (which I don't think is legally possible), his popularity will plummet because it will show how desperate he is to keep power.
That number wasn't proposed by them as has been dismissed today.

Cite for Canadians are furious at the coalition?

That's a risk Harper might take if he goes straight to the queen. Unprecedented times call for unprecedented action. The Liberals popularity will plummet because this action shows how desperae they are to gain power. Harper has a free pass to prorogue parliament, call an election, and possibly go to the queen.

The number was floated around. So it isn't 30 billion, do the Liberals plan on spending more?

Go to the CTV.ca website, there are a lot of Canadians posting there that are furious at them.

blueblood · December 3, 2008

Doesn't the PM have to appeal to the Queen to dismiss the GG?
Not that he will or go over her head.

I for one am content with whatever decision she will make.

The PM might have to appeal to the Queen to dismiss the GG. Judging by what's going on, that is a real possibility. He's boxing in the GG.

g_bambino · December 3, 2008

The PM might have to appeal to the Queen to dismiss the GG. Judging by what's going on, that is a real possibility. He's boxing in the GG.

If he is doing so, then Harper is the one creating any constitutional crisis, using the monarchy and constitution as a political tool. I suspect the Queen would not stand for it, knowing that her prime minister has lost the confidence of the House, and ignoring that message from her commons would go against the essence of parliamentary supremacy and responsible government.